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#1
12-10-2008, 10:14 PM
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Emergency call to action!!!
We are about to be in a world of $#!+.
Not content with ignoring, 'interpreting' and rewriting the Constitution, there are those who desire to completely eliminate and replace it. Given the political climate, one that would elect a raving socialist whose 'qualifications' are questionable in all areas, this would effectively and irrevocably destroy the nation. The quoted email explains it, and for the record, I know and have worked with AZ State Senator Karen Johnson, and trust her implicitly. I know and have worked with Ken Rineer in Second Amendment causes and have every confidence in him. [quote] IMMEDIATE ACTION ALERT Gun Owners of Arizona Ken Rineer, President P.O. Box 18640 Tucson, Arizona 85731-8640 I know this is last minute; however, this is too important to not put out! I received an email alert from Arizona State Senator Karen Johnson (see below) about Ohio holding a hearing in the Ohio House Judiciary committee to pass/fail Ohio HJR 8, which is a call for a constitutional convention by the State of Ohio.. Our country cannot withstand a con-con and we would all be in, well, you know what, if the con-con call requirements were met and one was held. I do not know if there is much we can do from out-of-state; however, this is such a great threat that I think an effort should at least be made. The link to the resolution is below. The Judiciary committee was supposed to hear it today, but their website has not been updated with the status as of yet, so I do not know the outcome of today's hearing. Note: Arizona rescinded its call for a Constitutional Convention in 2003. Here's a link to the bill for the rescission of Arizona's call: Bill History: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....r/bills/scr102 2o.asp Bill Text: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....r/bills/scr102 2s.htm In liberty, Ken Rineer Here is the link: http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/res.cfm?ID=127_HJR_8 Senator Karen Johnson's email: URGENT ACTION ALERT!! The Ohio state legislature is possibly going to vote this afternoon on a resolution calling for a national constitutional convention. Only two more states are needed. We do NOT want to have a constitutional convention they could scrap our entire U.S. Constitution with the Bill of Rights and start over!! There is more detailed explanation below from Tom DeWeese at the American Policy Center, but I am asking everyone to make two phone calls: ACTION TO TAKE We need only stop the House bill, HJR8, sponsored by Representative Louis Blessing, chairman of the Ohio House Judiciary Committee (there is a Senate bill too). 1. Call Chairman Blessing's office and tell his staff you oppose a Constitutional Convention and you want this process stopped. Tell them this is the most dangerous time ever to call for such a convention. Tell them no one can control the debate or outcome of a Con Con. Representative Louis Blessing Phone: (614) 466-9091 Fax: (614) 719-3583 Email: district29@ohr.state.oh.us 2. Call Representative Bill Batchelder. He is a very good man. I've known him for years. But he has been misled on this issue. The word is he is wavering. Your calls can convince him to withdraw his support. That can kill this bill. Representative Bill Batchelder Phone: (614) 466-8140 Fax: (614) 719-3969 Email: district69@ohr.state.oh.us Thanks for making these phone calls! Also, please send this email to everyone you know in every state. This vote affects everyone in the country, so you have a vested interest in the outcome. If you can't get through on the phone, keep trying and send an email while you're waiting! Senator Karen S. Johnson From: American Policy Center Subject: SLEDGEHAMMER: URGENT ACTION NEEDED - 2 States Away from Constitutional Convention Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 12:50 PM APC SLEDGEHAMMER ACTION ALERT > From the American Policy Center Tom DeWeese - President 70 Main Street, Suite 23 Warrenton, VA 20186 www.americanpolicy.org Extremely Urgent Action Alert! U.S. Two States Away from Constitutional Convention This is the most urgent, most important action alert the American Policy Center has ever issued! The Ohio state legislature is expected to vote today, Wednesday, Dec. 10th, to call for a Constitutional Convention (Con Con). If Ohio calls for a Con Con only one more state need do so and Congress will have no choice but to convene a Convention, throwing our U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights up for grabs. Ohio's vote today poses a grave threat to the U.S. Constitution. Please immediately call the Ohio lawmakers listed below. ACT FAST - time is of the essence! I apologize! This malignancy most foul remained undetected by our radar until a good friend brought it to our attention yesterday. The hour is late, but WE MUST TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION! It does not matter where you live. Ohio's vote today endangers everyone in every state in the Union, so we must pressure Ohio lawmakers to discard this disastrous legislative effort. Thirty-two (32) other states have already called for a Con Con (allegedly to add a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution). 34 states are all that is required, and then Congress MUST convene a Convention. The U.S. Constitution places no restriction on the purposes for which the states can call for a Convention. If Ohio votes to call a Con Con, for whatever purpose, the United States will be only one state away from total destruction. And it's a safe bet that those who hate this nation, and all She stands for, are waiting to pounce upon this opportunity to re-write our Constitution. We dare slumber no longer; we must take immediate action to preserve this nation! Certainly all loyal Americans want government constrained by a balanced budget. But calling a Con Con risks a revolutionary change in our form of government. The ultimate outcome will likely be a new constitution; one that would possibly eliminate the Article 1 restriction to the coinage of real money or even eliminate gun or property rights. So what may look like a good idea to the legislators driving this effort - all Republicans - will certainly make them prey to the law of unintended consequences - at the very least insuring the U.S. will never have a balanced budget - while destroying what vestiges of liberty the government still allows. You may have heard that some of those 32 states have voted to rescind their calls. This is true. However, under Article V of the Constitution, Congress must call a Constitutional Convention whenever 2/3 (or 34) of the states apply. The Constitution makes no provision for rescission. We've been told advocates of the convention are waiting to capture just two more states - Ohio, and one other. They can then challenge the other states' rescissions in the courts while going ahead with the Convention. Congress alone then decides whether state legislatures or state conventions ratify proposed amendments. You may have heard the states can control the subject of any convention. In truth no restrictive language from any state can legally limit the scope or outcome of a Convention! Once a Convention is called Congress determines how the delegates to the Convention are chosen. Once chosen, those Convention delegates possess more power than the U.S. Congress itself; if it were not so they would not be able to change the U.S. Constitution! We have not had a Constitutional Convention since 1787. That Convention was called to make small changes in the Articles of Confederation. As a point of fact, several states first passed resolutions requiring their delegates discuss amendments to the Articles ONLY, forbidding even discussion of foundational changes . However, following the delegates' first agreement that their meetings be in secret, their second act was to agree to debate those state restrictions and to declare the Articles of Confederation NULL AND VOID! They also changed the ratification process, reducing the required states' approval from 100% to 75%. There is no reason to believe a contemporary Con Con wouldn't further "modify" Article V restrictions to suit its purpose. As former Chief Justice Warren Burger said in a letter written to Phyllis Schlafly, President of Eagle Forum: "...there is no effective way to limit or muzzle the actions of a Constitutional Convention. The convention could make its own rules and set its own agenda. Congress might try to limit the convention to one amendment or to one issue, but there is no way to assure that the convention would obey. After a convention is convened, it will be too late to stop the convention if we don't like its agenda. The meeting in 1787 ignored the limit placed by the confederation Congress..." (emphasis mine) We were blessed in 1787; the Con Con delegates were the leaders of a freedom movement that had just cleansed this land of tyranny. Today's corrupt politicians and judges would like nothing better than the ability to legally ignore the Constitution - to modify its "problematic" provisions to reflect the philosophical and socials mores of our contemporary society. The majority of U.S. voters just elected a dedicated leftist as President. Republicans are at their weakest right now! This is a horrible time to try such a crazy scheme. We cannot control the debate right now! Don't for one second doubt that delegates to a Con Con wouldn't revise the 1st Amendment into a government-controlled privilege, replace the 2nd Amendment with a "collective" right to self-defense, and abolish the 4th, 5th, and 10th Amendments, and the rest of the Bill of Rights. Additions could include the non-existent Separation of Church and State, the "right" to abortion and euthanasia, and much, much more. continued: 
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#2
12-10-2008, 10:17 PM
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Our uniquely and purely American concept of individual rights, endowed by
our Creator, would be quickly set aside as an anachronistic relic of a bygone era; replaced by new "collective" rights, awarded and enforced by government for the "common good". The problems our nation faces are not a result of deficiencies in our Constitution; rather, they are the direct result of our disregard for that divinely-inspired document of liberty. There is no challenge faced by this nation that cannot be solved either by enforcing existing law, or in limited cases, by writing new law. We do not need, AND MUST NOT RISK THE LIBERTY OF THE UNITED STATES with, a Constitutional Convention! Ohio must not vote for a Con Con! We cannot control the debate! And state #34 is likely sitting silently in the wings, ready to act with lightning speed, sealing the fate of our once great nation before we can prevent it. Stop the Ohio bill and we can stop the Constitutional Convention. ACTION TO TAKE We need only stop the House bill, HJR8, sponsored by Representative Louis Blessing, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee (there is a Senate bill too). 1. Call Chairman Blessing's office and tell his staff you oppose a Constitutional Convention and you want this process stopped. Tell them this is the most dangerous time ever to call for such a convention. Tell them no one can control the debate or outcome of a Con Con. Representative Louis Blessing Phone: (614) 466-9091 Fax: (614) 719-3583 Email: district29@ohr.state.oh.us 2. Call Representative Bill Batchelder. He is a very good man. I've known him for y ears. But he has been misled on this issue. The word is he is wavering. Your calls can convince him to withdraw his support. That can kill this bill. Representative Bill Batchelder Phone: (614) 466-8140 Fax: (614) 719-3969 Email: district69@ohr.state.oh.us 3. It is URGENT that you make your calls right now. The bill could be voted on as early as this afternoon (Wednesday). I'm so sorry for this late notice. We just found out about this last night. Please get this message out far and wide. This task requires our very best effort! E-mail and call your friends, family and neighbors. Network anywhere and everywhere possible. If you know someone who never takes action, encourage them to break that habit this one time. Our Constitution is under assault! Visit the American Policy Center website SEND THIS MESSAGE TO AT LEAST TEN MORE PEOPLE! APC is now offering you a quick and easy way to multiply your efforts and help win more battles! Simply click here to send this APC Action Alert to up to TEN of your friends! It's fast, it's easy and most of all, it's extremely effective in KILLING OPPRESSIVE POLICIES! If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe American Policy Center 70 Main Street Suite 23 Warrenton, Virginia 20186 [/quote] ...damned character limits...
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#3
12-10-2008, 10:47 PM
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Why stop it. A convention could also improve things like a coherent tax plan. Fix an out of control congress. Actual make the Bill of Rights coherent.
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#4
12-10-2008, 11:27 PM
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If, and I use the word advisedly, the Constitutional Convention is being called strictly for the purpose as defined in H.J.R. No. 8 (a Balanced Budget Amendment), AND if, and again I use the word advisedly, all of the other States have similar verbiage disallowing them from discussing or voting on any other proposals than the specified Balanced Budget Amendment, I see no reason to impede it.
However, as we have all seen too many times in the past, by the time any proposed legislation does pass through the process, it usually includes the phrase "...and for other purposes", and THAT is the troubling part, since at this point in time we have no way of knowing exactly which other States are considering joining in this proposed Constitutional Convention, nor the specific verbiage each of their particular proposed legislations may contain. For my part, I will endeavor to effort out the specific States that are considering joining the proposed Convention, and the text of their proposed legislation. If I am able to locate any other them, I will post them here for everyones consideration.
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#5
12-10-2008, 11:40 PM
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OK, thus far I have been able to locate sources that list the following States as having called for Con-Con for a Balanced Budget Amendment;
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#6
12-11-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Given my primary areas of interest, I believe that any such 'new Constitution' would give us the same 'freedom of speech' that Germans had in 1936 to praise Hitler on any street corner, or Russians had to extol Stalin in 1940, and any firearm in the hands of the civilian populace would be grounds for classifying him as an 'enemy of the State'. Obviously, YMMV, but - back to history - every 'modification' or 'interpretation' of the Constitution has resulted in less liberty, not more; broader power to the central government at the cost of that intended to the States and to the people. There is no reason to believe scrapping what's left of it and producing a 'new' one would do anything but irrevocably codify the total supremacy of the 'imperial state'.
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#7
12-12-2008, 07:23 AM
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Hairy, the links in the email aren't working because they are broken by two lines. We can still copy and paste using both lines, but you can't directly click and go.
I'm going to do a little more research on this myself before I make my comments and post my thoughts though.
__________________
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#8
12-12-2008, 10:57 AM
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"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
As I have pointed out repeatedly, the Constitutional Convention of 1787 was convened for the purpose of amending the Articles of Confederation. It did not 'amend', 'clarify' or 'modify' them, it completely supplanted them, creating a central governing body which drew its power from that formerly held by the joint and several States, and has continually grown - in size and power - by usurping an ever-increasing level of those 'States Rights', and illegally and arbitrarily curtailing the supposedly 'guaranteed' rights of its citizens. If there is any rational basis for a presumption that any putative Constitution to emerge from a Second Constitutional Convention would not permanently codify the powers of the central government as greater than those it has arbitrarily seized, would not establish a statist system under which the government is the ultimate arbiter of what is 'safe' for its subjects, what is 'best' for its subjects, and what 'privileges' its subjects may or may not be 'allowed' - at whim with no justification beyond 'it's the law' - it has not yet seen the light of day...nor would it withstand the light of truth.
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#9
12-12-2008, 07:20 PM
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On that very subject, while listening to the radio today I heard some discussion on the Con-Con, and several of the States are proposing, aside from a Balanced Budget Amendment, the repeal of the 16th and 17th Amendments, which would essentially turn back the clock to a time when the States really did have some say in how the government was run, and to deal with all of the run-away spending that Congress has engaged in over the past 70+ years that has all but bankrupted the nation, and saddled our Great-Great-Grandchildren with a debt that they'll never see an end of.
As Hairy noted, it is entirely possible that a Con-Con could result in a complete re-write of the Constitution, and the fact is that even if they do, there's little/nothing that we can do about it anyway except 1) repeat the efforts of the Federalists and Anti-Federalists by writing about it (not that anyone will pay any attention to it anyway unless they already agree with what we're writing), and 2) hunker down, lock and load, and get ready for the sh*t storm that will follow. Best case scenerio is that they'll be successful in getting the country back on track. Worst case scenerio...well, Jefferson did say that "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants...".
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#10
12-16-2008, 10:29 PM
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So what's the status on this guys? Any new and interesting developments. I would think a topic like this would get some news attention, but I haven't seen anything about it. I know a con-con hasn't been called, that would surly be news, but have other states rescinded or joined? Did the legislature even pass in Ohio? This just seemed to go dead all of a sudden.
And after my short research, here's my thoughts: I don't believe that a new Constitution would come of a con-con. I say this because of simple statistics: It takes 2/3 to call, and 3/4 to ratify. There is still approximately an 8 to 9 percent difference between the two, and 8 or 9 percent that may have not called for the convention in the first place. So, would a new amendment for federal budget balancing be good for us? I believe so. Would other amendments come up for debate? Probably more than likely. Would a new Constitution arise? Doubtfully, in my opinion.
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