More religious intolerence from the loony-left

[03_SHOOTER]

This story is just another in a long line of examples of loony-tunes nutjobs crying "foul", and claiming to be "offended" all because they feel "put upon" or aren't being given "their way". Personally I'm glad that the School Board told her to take her silly a$$ed objections and shove 'em sideways up her fourth point of contact, but I'm also sorry they didn't use that, or similar verbiage in doing so. Frankly, if she's so "offended" that her child should be exposed to all of those "evil" Christians and their customs, perhaps she should put her little urchin in HEBREW SCHOOL!

School board reinstates Rudolph, Santa

By Gareth McGrath
and Chelsea Kellner

Published: Friday, December 5, 2008 at 5:26 p.m.
Last Modified: Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:53 p.m.

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer was almost grounded at Murrayville Elementary School this week after a parent complained about the classic Christmas song’s inclusion in her daughter’s upcoming kindergarten concert.

The objecting parent was upset about the words “Christmas” and “Santa” in the song, feeling that they carried religious overtones.

That prompted the song to be pulled from the upcoming holiday concert, which in turn upset more parents.

But Rudolph will be shining bright next Tuesday after New Hanover County school administrators and lawyers determined the song was just, well, a secular song about a make-believe reindeer.

“They’ve determined that it signifies just a day in time, Dec. 25, not the promotion of a religious symbol,” said Ed Higgins, chairman of the county Board of Education. “So Rudolph is back in.”

School officials also found the use of “Santa” to be okay because he’s considered a nonreligious figure.

The kindergarten chorus’ holiday concert for the school’s PTA will now include Rudolph along with the songs “Winter Wonderland,” a snowman rap and “Jingle Bells.”

“They have clearly decided that any other religion or custom is not important,” the objecting parent said after learning about the reversal on “Rudolph.” She asked that her name not be published, to shield her daughter’s identity.

The mother, who is Jewish, said she was trying to have a Hanukkah song added to the musical lineup but had not received a return phone call about it from school officials by mid-afternoon Friday.

Sean Dwyer, whose daughter is also in the kindergarten class, had complained Friday morning about Rudolph getting muzzled.

Friday afternoon he said he thought school officials had made the right call by reinstating the popular Christmas song.

“It wasn’t my point in the beginning whether it was about religion or not,” Dwyer said. “The children have been learning this for weeks, and some person was trying to push their own personal feeling and agenda for this for their own child alone, and you just don’t do that.”

But until late Friday morning, Rudolph wasn’t going anywhere.

Murrayville Principal Julie Duclos said the school decided to pull the song after the parent complained “to make sure that we were actually paying attention to everybody’s interest, that we were not choosing somebody’s interest over another.”

“If we had enough time in the PTA program to sing a song for every single interest and value system, then we could do it,” she said. “But when you can’t do that, you go to universal values that are agreed on by every faith, every denomination. We wouldn’t want to leave anybody out.”

Though concert participation is not mandatory, students had been practicing the songs during school hours in their music class.

The objecting parent said that she spoke to Duclos about keeping the program about education and having fun, without any religious references. She sees the beauty in the Christmas celebration, she said, but believes religious holidays have no place in a secular public school setting.

“I don’t mind Christmas or anything Christmas-related at all, so long as you’re not imposing it on my child,” the objecting parent said Friday morning.

Contacted about the matter Friday morning, Higgins was surprised and more than a little irritated by the school’s decision to drop Rudolph from the musical event.

“I thought we were getting to the point where people would live and let live,” he said, openly wondering about how a few words in a holiday song about a magical reindeer could influence a child’s religious development.

But Rabbi Harley Karz-Wagman, with Wilmington’s Temple of Israel, said non-Christians are overwhelmed this time of year.

“I can understand the feelings the parent has,” he said, although he added that he personally didn’t have a problem with Rudolph.

Schools spokeswoman Valita Quattlebaum said the district usually gets at least one complaint a year about some aspect of how the holidays are being celebrated in the schools.

But Stephanie Kraybill, head of the Council of PTAs, said she’s never heard of a parent complaining about Christmas songs in the schools before.

She said she remembers some parents expressing concerns about classroom decorations and holiday celebrations needing to include examples of all of the season’s holidays, not just Christmas.

“But not about Christmas carols,” Kraybill said.

Chelsea Kellner: 343-2070

chelsea.kellner@starnewsonline.com

[SlightlyCatholic]

That parent needs to read the First Amendment...

“It wasn’t my point in the beginning whether it was about religion or not,” Dwyer said. “The children have been learning this for weeks, and some person was trying to push their own personal feeling and agenda for this for their own child alone, and you just don’t do that.”

Amen!

[HairyEyeball]

OK, Tim, as one of our resident 'experts', relatively speaking, on Christianity and the Bible, perhaps you can locate for the rest of us in which Chapter and Verse 'Santa Claus' and/or Rudolph, Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donder or Blitzen appear.

The point, which too many seem to miss, is not that this fruitcake almost got her way, nor is it that Higgins and his unidentified 'they' didn't lift up their skirts and run screaming from the 'controversy'. The point is that this woman and her 'objections' were taken seriously in the first place.

In survey after survey, approximately 85% of Americans attend a House of Worship on a regular or occasional basis. How did the remaining 15% gain control of the agenda, ban religion from the public forum, and not simply get told to 'shut up and sit down'? Christians who didn't like the public school system left it, and created Church schools. Jews built Yeshivas. Why are we forced to make our public schools 'athiest academies' to please a handful? And why do we grant 'special rights and privileges' unavailable to the overwhelming majority to every self-proclaimed 'minority'?

[SlightlyCatholic]

OK, Tim, as one of our resident 'experts', relatively speaking, on Christianity and the Bible, perhaps you can locate for the rest of us in which Chapter and Verse 'Santa Claus' and/or Rudolph, Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donder or Blitzen appear.

I figured this would come up. Depending on your faith, the Bible has varying levels of importance. An evangelical would consult their Bible for the entirety of their faith, whereas a Catholic would rely on the equally important hinges of Scripture and Church tradition. With that said, Santa Claus comes from a story of a man who really existed as a Bishop and benefactor for Christian people.

Here's an excerpt about the life of the "real" Saint Nick:

The true story of Santa Claus begins with Nicholas, who was born during the third century in the village of Patara. At the time the area was Greek and is now on the southern coast of Turkey. His wealthy parents, who raised him to be a devout Christian, died in an epidemic while Nicholas was still young. Obeying Jesus' words to "sell what you own and give the money to the poor," Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. He dedicated his life to serving God and was made Bishop of Myra while still a young man. Bishop Nicholas became known throughout the land for his generosity to the those in need, his love for children, and his concern for sailors and ships.


Under the Roman Emperor Diocletian, who ruthlessly persecuted Christians, Bishop Nicholas suffered for his faith, was exiled and imprisoned. The prisons were so full of bishops, priests, and deacons, there was no room for the real criminals—murderers, thieves and robbers. After his release, Nicholas attended the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. He died December 6, AD 343 in Myra and was buried in his cathedral church, where a unique relic, called manna, formed in his grave. This liquid substance, said to have healing powers, fostered the growth of devotion to Nicholas. The anniversary of his death became a day of celebration, St. Nicholas Day.

Through the centuries many stories and legends have been told of St. Nicholas' life and deeds. These accounts help us understand his extraordinary character and why he is so beloved and revered as protector and helper of those in need.

Now, the reason Christians (as opposed to "consumers" or "toy hoarders") give gifts on Christmas is to remind each other of the love that Christ has in giving himself to us on Christmas Day. It also reminds us that we are gifts to each other. I can't speak for the other faith groups, but that's the Christian view of it.

Now, at some point, Saint Nicholas and Christmas were fused together, mostly for commercialized motives.

The short answer? Santa Claus and none of his eight tiny reindeer have Scriptural roots. The image of Santa Claus, however, does have loose ties to a Church figure in the third century.

What I'm wondering is what all of that has to do with my post and what I cited. All I was trying to point out is that someone was pushing their own agenda in an institution that is clearly constructed for religious and cultural neutrality. Since atheism is considered a religion unto itself, she was trying to push her agenda and she shouldn't have.

[devin0116]

“I don’t mind Christmas or anything Christmas-related at all, so long as you’re not imposing it on my child,” the objecting parent said Friday morning."

Really?? Who said they were imposing anything on your child and it kind of seems like you do have something against Christmas. Rudolph isn't a problem for a Rabbi so why is it a problem to you?

How do I extract quotes insted of quoting the entire thing?

[HairyEyeball]

OK, so some folks don't recognize levity. The point wasn't the tenuous tie to St. Nicholas, rather that of a public so malleable and open to suggestion that it accepts icons of commercialism - a jolly fat man or a trinket-laden evergreen - as 'religious' symbols, as integral to the holiday as Midnight Mass.

[armysc_25b]

Originally Posted by devin0116

How do I extract quotes insted of quoting the entire thing?

Instead of doing a "Quick Reply", click the "Quote" button then remove from the quote all that you do not want quoted.

[SlightlyCatholic]

The point wasn't the tenuous tie to St. Nicholas, rather that of a public so malleable and open to suggestion that it accepts icons of commercialism - a jolly fat man or a trinket-laden evergreen - as 'religious' symbols, as integral to the holiday as Midnight Mass.

We agree on that. I think the problem is that commercialism IS the religion of the people during the holiday shopping season and all other genuine symbols of faith and piety (be they Christian or otherwise) are thrown overboard.

[HairyEyeball]

That's one perspective. They've also been (willingly) brainwashed into believing that unless they buy their kids (and anyone else 'significant' in their lives) as many of the newest, flashiest, most expensive, etc. etc. ad nauseum toys and trinkets they can (or can't) afford, they're 'bad parents' (or husbands, or wives, or...).

Here's a thought: At this stage of human development, many 'need' something greater to believe in - and since a belief in the G-d of western Judeo-Christian civilization has become 'uncool' and 'ne kulturny', why not Mammon?

[Spider]

for commercialized motives.

To be honest it has always been a fesitval of decadence and debauchery, that was originally created so that pagan converts could continue to celebrate mid-winter in the same fashion during the proseltyzing days, this policy decision is evidenced by Pope Gregory's letter to Saint Melita in Bede's Historia ecclesiastica. That is why Old Noll banned it after the English Civil Wars, not very puritan.

The short answer? Santa Claus and none of his eight tiny reindeer have Scriptural roots. The image of Santa Claus, however, does have loose ties to a Church figure in the third century.

Tiny? They pull a sleigh...