Dear Cadets

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

If you guys haven't realized this, shame on you.

We are cadets. Get it? We are cadets. We are the LOWEST life form (in terms of military command) on the face of this planet. To those men and women, who have gone through the training, we don't even deserve to be here, and, we aren't exactly changing their minds either.

To them, we're stupid high school students who dress up and play military one day a week for a year, go home, and do really, really, really stupid things.

So, from now on, here's my request to EVERY cadet (ROTC, JROTC, NSCC, CAP, ACA, etc.).

Before you post, copy and paste it into word to check for spelling mistakes and the like. That way, we don't have the adult mods coming through every two hours editing our posts in red. Also, before we post, research the information first. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that the mods are sick and tired of having to provide the regulation and the answer for us especially when it could be found by doing a simple google search.

Yes, I know, the mods have gotten on me for this, but I've corrected my mistakes, and now, I'm asking that of you.

Can we at least make Grunt and the other senior members not regret combining the forums together?

Signed: Cadet Sergeant First Class Buffa1oso1di3r

[TruBlu]

I wouldn't want to speak for any adult moderators, or any adults on this forum, they are all due proper respect and gratitude. Don't make busy work for them. Check your spelling (hint hint, there is a little red line under words that are misspelled) and grammar, there is no need to speak poorly at any time. Also, don't try to fight mods/adults/etc. If you have a quarrel, be civilized and open minded. Also don't try to call them out, 'cause 11 times out of 10, they are in the know.

All I have to say as a fellow cadet is that we just need to respect each other and the adults/moderators/administrators that put this on for us. This is all in place as a community to share ideas and discuss issues pertinent to us. No one has to put this on for us.

Thank you Grunt first and foremost, and thank you to all of the ex military and moderators here. We appreciate, even if we don't realize it sometimes.

[C.A.P. Flight Officer]

A big thank you to Grunt for this forum, I for one appreciate it! Thank you to all of to the mods and the ex and current military as well. Cadets, do not get the mods ticked off over something like spelling. No offense but if we (cadets) can get on the computer and navigate to this forum then we can edit spelling errors before posting.

[StarLifter]

Another big part of doing any writing is proof reading. There's a part that says 'preview post.' I know you all are in either middle school or high school (some of you in college) English/Lit/Writing by now, so should have a pretty solid idea of what 'proofread' means. If you hit the 'Preview Post' button below the text box, it shows you what your post is going to look like after you hit 'Submit Reply.' Push the 'Preview Post' button, and proofread what you wrote. If you see grammatical, usage or spelling errors, then fix them. If you think you're not saying what you intended to say, start from scratch, and repeat the process. It's not that hard. We type maybe 300-500 word blurbs here, with the occasional 1,000+ word blog ('we' meaning the cadets. I know that some members, such as HairyEyeball, can write books on a whim. Amazingly, I've yet to see him swallow his own boot over anything he's posted, and yet he still manages those novels. That should be an inspiration) by one or two cadets. Re-writing something because you realize you aren't conveying your message properly is no huge task for something that small. The forum gives you tools. Please, use them.

-- StarLifter

[Startingover]

We are cadets. Get it? We are cadets.

No, we're not just cadets. A lot of us here aren’t even affiliated with the military whatsoever. Others of us aren’t even out of college like myself.

We are the LOWEST life form (in terms of military command) on the face of this planet.

This I take personal offense to. Cadets may not be in the military but we are some of this nation's hope. Every cadet who is in the program is the future of this country, they are the next hope. I despise being called a "Lowly Life Form" just because I am a cadet, bettering myself. That’s like me going to your school and calling you out in front of your detachment, it’s disrespectful. Some of your fellow classmates will not even start to appreciate the military or strive to do better than shoot up on the streets. I take high offense, for my actions trying to better my understanding, as will anyone who was formally a cadet.

To those men and women, who have gone through the training, we don't even deserve to be here, and, we aren't exactly changing their minds either.

Yes, we do deserve to be here. This board was created for the explicit purpose of bringing together cadets across the world and to try and to get them to work together and trade knowledge. The people on this board are taking advantage of that to help us strive for better, and strive to increase our knowledge, otherwise, some of them wouldn’t even be here. They have no standing commitment to even show up tomorrow and check on us except for they want to, and some even came back from the proverbial dead just to continue participating.

Yes, most of you are a bunch of kids, some of us, are like me and in college. We are here to learn from the people here, and teach the ones below us, not just be lumps on a log here.

To them, we're stupid high school students who dress up and play military one day a week for a year, go home, and do really, really, really stupid things.

I take the highest offense to this possible, of everything you said, this one really eats the cake. I spent 4 years, under 2 different officers learning everything I know now about the military, the gov't, and the ROTC/JROTC program. I went, like so many of my classmates, to Summer Leadership School, I was the JROTC Color guard Commander, I am the Det. 600 Honor Guard Commander. I Am the D&C Commander. HOW DARE YOU, even reference us to any form of disrespect of the uniform. There are people out there that don’t care, but don’t lessen all of us, hard working cadets, just because you want to be cute and get noticed because you can’t seem to do anything to better yourself in your own eyes. Don’t come on here and degrade every Man and Woman who has ever been in contact with cadetship in their lives.

Some of us are the next leaders. Some of us are the next Officers in the military, DON'T EVER DISGRACE THAT! If you don’t want to sit and be content, learning what you can and move on, then Leave, you have no obligation whatsoever to the military in JROTC. So if you think that lowly of cadets in general, and the people who teach them everything they know hoping to get a good batch, then leave. Otherwise, I expect you to at least think, about if every cadet in the nation was to read what you said about how we are the lowliest life forms on earth, then I bet over half of them would be able to show you a true lowly life form.

Can we at least make Grunt and the other senior members not regret combining the forums together?

Just jumping around a bit because I have a class soon, but what gives you the right to say that we are doing a bad job. Just because you decided that everyone on here isn’t doing their best? Sure, we might make mistakes and sure we might have some problems, everyone does. But on a general consensus of this board, I think very highly of a few of the cadets here. You, not so much anymore, but there are some on here that have the best intentions for all to see, others have some problems getting up to speed but in general, we are doing fairly well.

[Armed Drill Addict]

First off, Startingover, you are taking all of this way too personally. I understand the point that Buffa1oso1di3r is trying to make. He is not insulting you. He is stating that by the military's view we are the lowest form of military life. It doesn't mean we don't work hard or don't deserve respect, it just means that in their eyes we are still just playing dress up.

Yes, we learn to drill, we p.t., we learn military knowledge; but compared to them that is nothing. We may be the next leaders, but we aren't yet. We are still learning and growing and preparing for the day we can graduate from just being cadets, and be true Marines, soldiers, seaman, and airmen.

Lighten up, don't take things so seriously, and try to toughen your skin. If you let something like this offend you so greivously, then maybe your not cut out to be a leader anyway. There will always be criticisms, and you must learn to ignore them.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Cadets,

Excuse my interruption, but it seems to me that this could all be solved by simply using private messages and the system for reporting posts. From an outsider's point of view, there are really only a small group of you whose posts do not meet the standards outlined by the Moderators. Perhaps if someone is not meeting the standards, they should be told privately and then reported if they don't comply. I don't see a need for a public declaration for change (even if it was well intentioned), nor do I see a need for cadets to be publicly calling each other out. If you all want to be truly respected by the adults here, show that you can be adults by handling things privately as mature individuals. Lastly, a sign of true maturity is giving someone the benefit of the doubt, especially if you don't know that person. Blanket judgements rarely turn out well and often backfire, especially without all the facts. Let's not call anyone here a bad leader/bad person because of a comment they make in their posts, since many of us don't know each other NEARLY enough to make those kinds of judgements.

P.S. I'm not a discipline enforcer on this forum, nor do I try to be. My telling you what to do is merely my attempt to disarm a bomb that could easily explode in all of your faces very soon. If I see a problem, I try to jump in and fix it. Please don't get the impression that I'm somehow placing myself over all of you by infusing my opinion into this current dispute. God bless and good luck.

[pingjocky]

EDITED: Yeah, disregard my comments...us active duty guys don't know $hit.

R/
Pingjocky

[StarLifter]

OK, let's take this piece by piece here...

Originally Posted by Startingover

No, we're not just cadets. A lot of us here aren’t even affiliated with the military whatsoever. Others of us aren’t even out of college like myself.



This I take personal offense to. Cadets may not be in the military but we are some of this nation's hope. Every cadet who is in the program is the future of this country, they are the next hope. I despise being called a "Lowly Life Form" just because I am a cadet, bettering myself. That’s like me going to your school and calling you out in front of your detachment, it’s disrespectful. Some of your fellow classmates will not even start to appreciate the military or strive to do better than shoot up on the streets. I take high offense, for my actions trying to better my understanding, as will anyone who was formally a cadet.

Did you bother to preview your posts? Kid, if you're my future, I'll cover my own rear, thank you very much. Attention to detail is pretty important, especially if the military's willing to hand you a piece of equipment that could potentially take lives. As a note, yes, this is an example of attention to detail. You failed, for example, to use an apostrophe in a sentence above. How is your next battle buddy (theoretical here...) to be sure you'll be pointing the weapon in the right direction when you pull the trigger?

Yes, we do deserve to be here. This board was created for the explicit purpose of bringing together cadets across the world and to try and to get them to work together and trade knowledge. The people on this board are taking advantage of that to help us strive for better, and strive to increase our knowledge, otherwise, some of them wouldn’t even be here. They have no standing commitment to even show up tomorrow and check on us except for they want to, and some even came back from the proverbial dead just to continue participating.

As one of the founding members of the cadet forum, I think I can swing in some more information here. The cadet forum was produced as an alternative to the cadet section that existed on a previous Grunt forum, because cadets were making statements and swinging their digits around as though they were tough $hit. The original Grunt forum, as members such as ANG1SGT and o3shooter can attest, did not even have a cadet section. So no, this forum is not here "...for the explicit purpose of bringing together cadets across the world...", but rather as a military forum for military personnel, serving or retired, potential military personnel, and military enthusiasts. This 'cadet' section that exists here is solely a compromise in what initially was an effort to allow cadets an area where they could say what they wanted while allowing the adults to continue discussing real world affairs without some snotty JROTC kid (and I can say snotty JROTC kid -- some of you might recall I once was one of those) putting in his two clay cents, and then saying, "But my instructor said..."

Yes, most of you are a bunch of kids, some of us, are like me and in college. We are here to learn from the people here, and teach the ones below us, not just be lumps on a log here.

You're still held to the standards of this forum, no matter where you stand academically. You post on these forums as a cadet. Granted, if you haven't already, you will eventually sign a contract stating that you will be in the military for X amount of years after graduating college, but at this point in time, you are not actively a member of the U.S. military. The years you are putting into ROTC do not count towards your total years of service. You are still learning. So, no, you're not here to just be lumps on a log, but at the same time, you are not among the most knowledgeable of persons here.

I take the highest offense to this possible, of everything you said, this one really eats the cake. I spent 4 years, under 2 different officers learning everything I know now about the military, the gov't, and the ROTC/JROTC program. I went, like so many of my classmates, to Summer Leadership School, I was the JROTC Color guard Commander, I am the Det. 600 Honor Guard Commander. I Am the D&C Commander. HOW DARE YOU, even reference us to any form of disrespect of the uniform. There are people out there that don’t care, but don’t lessen all of us, hard working cadets, just because you want to be cute and get noticed because you can’t seem to do anything to better yourself in your own eyes. Don’t come on here and degrade every Man and Woman who has ever been in contact with cadetship in their lives.

Degrading? The kid's pointing out a truth. So, you spent 4 years in JROTC being the JROTC Color Guard Commander. Whoo-hoo. Wow, you did SLS! Yipee! D&C Commander? You know what they say about those who teach, right? You know, usually they teach because they can't perform? How about a little bit of history on me here. I spent 9 years in the Civil Air Patrol as a cadet. During that time, was a member of the Red Dragon Drill Team (Some CAP'ers will recognize that name if they follow the national competition system), held positions of C/Element Leader, C/Flight Sergeant, C/Flight Commander, C/Deputy Squadron Commander, C/Logistics Officer and C/Color Guard Advisor. In JROTC, I spent a full 4 years, and during the course of that, was again a C/Element Leader, was a member of the Unarmed Drill Team, Armed Drill Team, Color Guard, Academic Challenge, commanded Academic Challenge and the Unarmed Drill Team, was a member of Information Management, Community Service team, and Public Affairs. I also served as a Flight Commander, and in my senior year was in a top 5 position as the C/Inspector General, thus playing a major role in my unit's passing inspection and receiving an Outstanding Unit award. I am a recipient of 2 national awards in a unit where anyone is real lucky to receive even 1. I've attended (and brought home hardware from) several drill competitions, been the go-to guy for cadets that needed advise, had problems with their COs, or just had regulation issues that needed to be solved. If I didn't know the exact regulation word for word, I knew exactly where to find it and in which book it was in. Upon entering into college, I also joined ROTC, which I was actively involved in for the one year that I attended that college. Do you know what that's worth? Hmm? All of that, plus about $1.55, can get me a 24 oz coffee at WaWa. In other words, it's pretty much useless. Anyone who's actually served in the military, if you ask them, will tell you the same thing they told me: When you get in, the first thing you need to do is shut up, forget everything you know, and listen to your NCOs and SNCOs. Just because you may 'outrank' them doesn't mean they're worthless. Hell, in the debate tonight, John McCain pointed out that everything he needed to know in the Navy he learned from a Chief Petty Officer.

Some of us are the next leaders. Some of us are the next Officers in the military, DON'T EVER DISGRACE THAT! If you don’t want to sit and be content, learning what you can and move on, then Leave, you have no obligation whatsoever to the military in JROTC. So if you think that lowly of cadets in general, and the people who teach them everything they know hoping to get a good batch, then leave. Otherwise, I expect you to at least think, about if every cadet in the nation was to read what you said about how we are the lowliest life forms on earth, then I bet over half of them would be able to show you a true lowly life form.

You've taken his words out of context. Go back and re-read his post. His 'lowly life form' content was specifically in regards to military command.

Just jumping around a bit because I have a class soon, but what gives you the right to say that we are doing a bad job. Just because you decided that everyone on here isn’t doing their best? Sure, we might make mistakes and sure we might have some problems, everyone does. But on a general consensus of this board, I think very highly of a few of the cadets here. You, not so much anymore, but there are some on here that have the best intentions for all to see, others have some problems getting up to speed but in general, we are doing fairly well.

Maybe he's just trying to do what we all should be doing. Maybe he's just representing his way of policing himself and others, so that this forum doesn't become an example of what every other forum out there has become. Grunt's has a good history, dare I say a proud history, and standing by and allowing things to slip is only going to tarnish it. If you truly took personal offense to what he wrote, you should take it to PM, discuss it there, and have your apology sessions there. Other than that, stow your 'woe is me' remarks. The statement he made was a generalization. Do I necessarily agree with everything he said? Not at all. However, I have been happy previously to back up the good points that were made.

You're currently studying to be an officer, correct? That means being a leader. One fundamental that I learned with regards to leadership (and yes, I'm breaking it here), you'd do well to remind yourself: Praise in Public, Criticize in Private.

[StarLifter]

Also, as a note (and I feel this does deserve its own special little box), I believe this proves a point.

Originally Posted by pingjocky

Last edited by pingjocky; Today at 06:00 PM. Reason: don't like bashing my head against brick walls......

The reason I quote it? Well, remember my statement about cadets submitting their own opinions in areas where they were grossly unprepared to back up said opinions? As I said, the cadet forum was meant specifically to separate the cadets from those who actually have served, and thus can form educated opinions regarding military stuff. I wouldn't dare challenge ping on the goings-on of members of the silent service, but I know there have been instances where uppity cadets (and yes, even college ROTC cadets are guilty of it) have done so. Also, not just with regards to him: There were several instances where it happened with other people.

I think I'm finally done with this rant. Again, don't take it so personally.

-- StarLifter