ROTC SMP Cadet drilling w/ local NG Unit - questions on uniform/rank

[an7on]

I'm a MSII, SMP ROTC Cadet out of Upstate New York - I just started drilling with a local Infantry Unit and we've had a few questions regarding rank insignia, authorized head gear and my role in the unit.

First, from what the PMS tells me, I should wear the cadet Second Lieutenant Rank to drill - is this true?

Second, the head gear they use is the Beret, not the Patrol Cap. This brought up the question of wether or not I'm authorized to wear the Beret. The PMS informed me that I should put my Cadet rank instead of the Unit Insignia on the Beret and wear that - only at drill. Which Rank insignia, sold on this site, should be used on the Beret? The PMS gave me a Black Cadet Second Lieutenant insignia, which does not fit on my Beret because the post isn't long enough to go through the cardboard part. Should I be using the silver insignia instead? and is that one long enough?

Any insight/information would be great, thank you.

[PhilK]

In accordance with AR 670-1, Paragraph 3-5, a.(3)(b) -

(b) Soldiers are issued the black beret upon assignment to their first permanent duty assignment after the completion of initial entry training or officer/warrant officer basic courses. Cadets and officer/warrant officer candidates will not wear the black beret. Split-option soldiers or soldiers in the simultaneous membership program will wear the black beret only when performing duties with their units, and they will wear the patrol cap with the BDU, as described in paragraph 3–5b below, when in a cadet or trainee status. Soldiers who have not been issued or who do not wear the
black beret will wear the patrol cap with the BDU, as indicated in paragraph 3–5b below. In those cases where beret sustainment levels are not sufficient for turn-in and reissue of unserviceable berets, the commander can authorize the temporary wear of the patrol cap until the beret can be replaced.

You will wear non-subdued rank on the Beret, as per AR 670-1, c.,(1)

c. Headgear insignia. (See para 28–3 for placement of headgear insignia and beret flashes.)
(1) Beret. Officers and warrant officers wear non-subdued grade insignia centered on the beret flash, and chaplains wear their branch insignia. Enlisted personnel wear their distinctive unit insignia (DUI) centered on the beret flash. Enlisted personnel assigned to units not authorized the DUI wear their regimental distinctive insignia (RDI). General officers may wear full-, medium-, or miniature-sized stars on the beret. Stars are centered horizontally on the flash point-to-point, and they may be mounted on a bar as an option. Overlap of the stars beyond the flash is authorized.

You do wear the C/2LT pip. Be expected to be called "nickel", "dot", 3rd LT", etc.

[cscsmp]

I'm in the exact same situation as you, just in Nebraska instead of New York. We wear the "dot" for rank on our ACU's but are kind of confused as far as berets. Our ROTC program is fairly small and new and before me we've only had two SMP cadets and they were both told different things. One wears the silver dot and one wears the unit insignia. I haven't had to wear the beret yet so I can't say definitively.

[PhilK]

My recommendation would be to just wear your PC like OCS Candidates do, but wear the non-subdued pip on it.

If your commander has an issue with, just refer them to the Subparagraph in AR 670-1 that refers to the wearing of the Patrol Cap by Cadets during training. (Because in my mind, you are training.)

That is what I usually did with the cadets that were assigned to my Troop when I was a Commander. I never expected them to wear the beret.

[an7on]

Thank you Sir for the information.

I'm getting different responses from all over the unit - I'm the first "official" SMP Cadet - there is a prior service Cadet who is a part of the unit, who still drilled while enrolled with ROTC, but he's been through basic and AIT and everything... so some people are confused.

Regardless, at the moment they have me placed in the unit taking the role as an enlisted soldier learning the ropes and the way the unit works. None of them really know what to do with me, however what they've come up with so far is that this year I'll take the place as enlisted, then shadow a teamleader/squadleader later on in the year, then next year shadow the PL, and during my final year shadow the Commanding Officer...

Sir, does this sound like a normal path for a Cadet?
Just out of curiosity, what did the Cadets under your command do throughout their stay in the Unit?

Thank you.

[PhilK]

Originally Posted by an7on

Sir, does this sound like a normal path for a Cadet?
Just out of curiosity, what did the Cadets under your command do throughout their stay in the Unit?

I have yet to discover the "normal" route for Cadets that are part of the SMP. However, if you follow "the book", you should be assigned to a Platoon Leader and shadow them from the get go.

When I was a Cadet, we had too many Cadets in the Battalion, so I ended up being assigned to the Support Platoon Leader in HHC. It worked out though, because at the time I got my commission, he got a Company Command and he brought me over to be one of his Platoon Leaders.

When I was Troop Commander, I did not have enough Platoon Leaders to assign my Cadets to, so they basicly worked for me and I would give them various assignments that I would normally give to my PLs (if I had them). I also had them spend a lot of time with the Platoon Sergeants being mentored on what a good PL should know and do.

[El Supremo]

Originally Posted by PhilK

I have yet to discover the "normal" route for Cadets that are part of the SMP. However, if you follow "the book", you should be assigned to a Platoon Leader and shadow them from the get go.

When I was a Cadet, we had too many Cadets in the Battalion, so I ended up being assigned to the Support Platoon Leader in HHC. It worked out though, because at the time I got my commission, he got a Company Command and he brought me over to be one of his Platoon Leaders.

When I was Troop Commander, I did not have enough Platoon Leaders to assign my Cadets to, so they basicly worked for me and I would give them various assignments that I would normally give to my PLs (if I had them). I also had them spend a lot of time with the Platoon Sergeants being mentored on what a good PL should know and do.

Sir, what is a Troop Commander, is it like a Company Commander, or is it like Commander of Troops? please enlighten me. Every time I put it in a search engine, it only comes up with Troop Commanders in the state of Georgia. Goarmy.com does not specify what a Troop Commander is either.

[PhilK]

Originally Posted by El Supremo

Sir, what is a Troop Commander, is it like a Company Commander, or is it like Commander of Troops? please enlighten me. Every time I put it in a search engine, it only comes up with Troop Commanders in the state of Georgia. Goarmy.com does not specify what a Troop Commander is either.

A Troop Commander is the same as a Company Commander except it is in a Cavalry Squadron.

Different units in the Army have different designations.

Example:

Infantry has Company; Cavalry has Troop; Field Artillery has Battery

They are all a "Company size" element.

At the Battalion Level, you have Battalions (Infantry and Artillery) and Squadrons (Cavalry again).

The only time I have seen "Commander of Troops" used is during ceremonies and usually it is the BN/Squadron XO who fills that role since the Commander is usually on the stage with the VIPs.

[El Supremo]

Originally Posted by PhilK

A Troop Commander is the same as a Company Commander except it is in a Cavalry Squadron.

Different units in the Army have different designations.

Example:

Infantry has Company; Cavalry has Troop; Field Artillery has Battery

They are all a "Company size" element.

At the Battalion Level, you have Battalions (Infantry and Artillery) and Squadrons (Cavalry again).

The only time I have seen "Commander of Troops" used is during ceremonies and usually it is the BN/Squadron XO who fills that role since the Commander is usually on the stage with the VIPs.

True when we have "Pass and reviews" at my school, it seems the XO just changes names for that ceremony.

Thank you, sir.

[cscsmp]

I got confirmation on what to wear on the beret. Wear the silver pip, not the unit insignia, on the beret.