Interactions of First Sergeants and Command E-9 Billets

[SlightlyCatholic]

I was looking at the functions of a First Sergeant, as well as the role of Command E-9 billets within units. The Navy and the Coast Guard use Command Chiefs, Senior Chiefs, and Master Chiefs. The Army, Marines, and Air Force, on the other hand, have both First Sergeants and E-9 command billets (Sergeants Major and Command Chief Master Sergeants). What I'm curious about is: a) would a unit ever have both a First Shirt and a command E-9? b) if so, the roles of each seem to be fairly similar, so how would their duties be divided up in the unit? c) if not, what determines which units receive First Sergeants and which units receive Command E-9's?

Thanks for looking at this and I'd love for anyone who's BTDT to clear this up.

[Startingover]

From what I can understand that can never happen, because the E-9 B, the command slot, is a single person that is in charge of the entire branches enlisted forces.

E-9 first sergeant, is just another first sergeant assigned to a Unit/Base/Fort etc.

and just for clarification the E-9 Sgt of the service, is the Advisor to the General of the service himself.

E-7
E-7* FS
E-8
E-8* FS
E-9
E-9* FS
E-9** Service Chief
E-9*** Chief of the service.

[PhilK]

In the Army, 1SGs are at the Company level, a Command Sergeant Major (CSM) can be found at the Battalion and higher level. You also have Sergeants Major who can be found on Battalion and higher staffs.

In an Infantry unit (as an example) you have the BN CSM and then you have 4-5 Company 1SGs (HQ Company, and 4 line companies (A-D))

The 1SGs are the senior enlisted advisors to the Company Commanders while the CSM is the senior enlisted advisor to the Battalion Commander.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Originally Posted by PhilK

In the Army, 1SGs are at the Company level, a Command Sergeant Major (CSM) can be found at the Battalion and higher level. You also have Sergeants Major who can be found on Battalion and higher staffs.

In an Infantry unit (as an example) you have the BN CSM and then you have 4-5 Company 1SGs (HQ Company, and 4 line companies (A-D))

The 1SGs are the senior enlisted advisors to the Company Commanders while the CSM is the senior enlisted advisor to the Battalion Commander.

Ok, so basically they're both Senior Enlisted Advisors, just at different levels of command. Would a First Sergeant ever have a reason to approach a CSM or would they stay strictly to their companies?

[PhilK]

Originally Posted by Seminarian_Tim

Ok, so basically they're both Senior Enlisted Advisors, just at different levels of command. Would a First Sergeant ever have a reason to approach a CSM or would they stay strictly to their companies?

The BN CSM usually has meetings (both on and off duty) just with his 1SGs. Just like the Company Commanders go and talk with the Battalion Commander in regards to issues, the 1SGs go and talk with the BN CSM. Hell, sometimes the Company Commanders go and talk to the BN CSM about issues.

When I was a Troop Commander (same thing as a Company Commander except in a Cavalry Squadron), I had an excellent 1SG, but I would go and bounce ideas off the CSM just as a second layer of sanity check. That CSM and I still keep in contact as does my former 1SG.

In many aspects the 1SGs have "two masters". They answer to the Company Commander (who also writes his evaluation), but then they answer in an "unofficial" capacity to the CSM. I am sure one of the senior NCOs around here can explain it better.

[Startingover]

Alright, ill just use the Air force since it is familiar to me.

The First sergeants are all assigned to bases and then, the second level E-9, the Command Chief Master Sergeant, he is in charge of all enlisted personell below him. He is the head hauncho for the Air force enlisted corps.

Then the Chief Master Sergeant for the Air Force, he is the advisor to the General of the Air force himself.

[SlightlyCatholic]

I understand the part about the First Shirts, Command NCO, and NCO of the respective service. The Navy does have 3 E-9 ranks: Command Master Chiefs, Fleet/Force Master Chiefs, and the MCPON (Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy).My question was about the differences in function between the First Sergeant and the CSM (or the military equivilant for Air Force and Marines). Thank you for your input, Startingover.

[Startingover]

Originally Posted by Seminarian_Tim

I understand the part about the First Shirts, Command NCO, and NCO of the respective service. The Navy does have 3 E-9 ranks: Command Master Chiefs, Fleet/Force Master Chiefs, and the MCPON (Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy).My question was about the differences in function between the First Sergeant and the CSM (or the military equivilant for Air Force and Marines).

Thanks for the update on the navy, I didnt not know.

The first sergeant acts as the disciplinarian for a base. He is the Morale person, kinda exactly like a multi purpose social services officer.

The Command Chief, he is in charge of personell all over the entire globe. All Enlisted personel and their professions, jobs, and skills fall under him.

Ask TOP more about the First Shirts, cause obviously he would know, he was one, and I dont know anyone better qualified to explain their duties as opposed to anyone on this forum.

[SlightlyCatholic]

I'm sure he'll come in at some point. Thanks for your help thus far, both yourself and Phil.

[Billyd]

Cadet, you have it wrong.

The First Sergeant is assigned at the Squadron and Group level and advises the appropriate commander on the welfare of the enlisted corps. This person performs more than disciplinary actions. They make sure that the enlisted person is treated IAW with laws and regulations by other organizations on and off base and on and off duty. They are another resource for supervisors seeking advice on getting help for troubled individuals.

At the base level, it is the Wing Command Chief Master Sergeant and he/she performs that same function, just on a bigger scale.

Each command also has a Command Chief. At the Air Force level, this Top Enlisted person is the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. The other services equivalents are:

Sergeant Major of the Army
Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Coast Guard

Tim, if you really want to know what the First Sergeant's job is PM Top, he will be more than happy to tell what he did as the Shirt of his unit.