The Senate passed it.

[03_SHOOTER]

They passed it all right, and as expected, it's a LOAD OF CRAP JAMMED WITH PORK AND TOTALLY UNRELATED GARBAGE!!

BILL

Renewable energy credit
Production credit for electrically produced from marine renewables
Energy credit
Energy credit for small wind property
Energy credit for geothermal heat pump systems
Credit for residential energy efficient property
New clean renewable energy bonds
Credit for steel industry fuel
Special rule to implement FERC and State electirc restructuring policy
Expansion and modification of advanced coal project investment credit
Expansion and modification of coal gasification investment credit
Temporary increase in coal excise tax; funding of Black Lung Disability Trust Fund
Special rules for refund of the coal excise tax to certain coal producers and exporters
Tax credit for carbon dioxide sequestration
Certain income and gains relating to industrial source carbon dioxide treated as qualifying income for publicaly traded partnerships
Carbon audit of the tax code
Inclusion of cellulosic biofuel in bonus depreciation for biomass ethanol plant property
Credits for diodiesel and renewable diesel
Clarification that credits for fuel are designed to provide an incentive for United States production
Extension and modification of alternative fuel credit
Credit for new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicles
Exclusion from heavy truck tax for idling reduction units and advanced insulation
Alternative fuel vehicle refueling property credit
Certain income and gains relating to alcohol fuels and mixtures, biodiesel fuels and mixtures, and alternative fuels and mixtures treated as qualifying income for publicly traded partnerships
Extension and modification of election to expense certain refineries
Extension and suspension of taxable income limit on percentage depletion for oil and natural gas produced from marginal properties
Transportation fringe benefit to bicycle commuters
Qualified energy conservation bonds
Credit for nonbusiness energy property
Energy efficient commercial buildings deduction
New energy efficient home credit
Modifications of energy efficient appliance credit for appliances produced after 2007
Accelerated recovery period for depreciation of smart meters and smart grid systems
Qualified breen building and sustainable design projects
Special depreciation allowance for certain reuse and recycling property
Limitation of deduction for income atributable to domestic production of oil, gas, or primary products thereof
Elimination of the different treatment of foreigh oil and gas extraction income and foreign oil related income for purposes of the foreign tax credit
Broker reporting of customers basis in securities transactons
0.2 precent FUTA surtax
Increase and extension of Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund tax

Then there's the "Paul Wellstone and Pete Domenici Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008", which might help Dawkins out since it requires employers to cover De-de-de's and stoners on their insurance policies, and they can't be charged a premium.

There's a half a BILLION crammed in there for "rural schools", for THIS YEAR!

There's also the obligatory "disaster relief" legislation which includes tax breaks for those in declared disaster areas.

Simply put, out of 451 pages of legislation, only 100 of them apply directly to the present emergency, and the rest are "riders", and other non-related legislation that they bundled together in one Bill so that they could get done and go home to campaign.

[SlightlyCatholic]

...and none of that will matter if it doesn't get by the House. It'll be interesting to see what happens on Friday when they vote. Pressure's on!

[SGM]

For what its worth - I hope the House votes it down. Along with all this crap, why should we get all these people out of their problems when they used poor judgement to begin with.

Why aren't some of the loan officers who approved such loans, stock brokers who "played with the money" CEOs and Board members pitching their profits made back into the pot?

Is it my problem people just want to "CHARGE IT" and worry about it later. My father always told me - if you ain't got the money don't buy it. And if you ain't got the means for paying off a loan - don't get it.

I'm sorry, maybe it is a little hard hearted and not right, but maybe this is what it will take for people to remember that what you borrow you got to pay back!!!

[PaulR]

Worst case, if the Bill passes and the economy still fails we the people will be stuck with BOTH a crappy economic situation AND a huge debt to pay.

I heard on the radio this morning from a Senator who is receiving tens of thousands of phone calls from citizens a day, with about 60-90%(depending on the day) telling him NOT to allow this bill to pass. He said that he went ahead and voted for the Bill anyway as HE felt it was the best thing for the country's economy. I guess that he is not alone(from his own admission). The cries against this bill FAR outweight the people for it, yet the f**king politicians are disregarding this voice and are voting for it's passage anyway.

I am so angry right now. I am still in shock with what I have heard.

[CAPSmith]

Originally Posted by PaulR

The cries against this bill FAR outweight the people for it, yet the f**king politicians are disregarding this voice and are voting for it's passage anyway.

Other than the pork, I think the second revision is better than the previous. The first revision had all the profit earmarked for social handouts for housing. Talk about chasing your tail. The new one, proceeds go to paying off public debt.

On the politicians though, I don't know about you but I vote for people who have vision and leadership. I don't want to vote for someone who merely takes a poll and votes accordingly.

I think that the biggest hurdle to getting this moving is the "leadership" explaining to us why if we don't do this it is going to be "bad." Many people are against this, in principle I don't agree with it, but see it as one of those necessary evils.

If the nations credit lines shut down, new business won't be able to open, people won't be able to buy houses, cars, get college loans, etc. Right now this crisis has had little effect on most Americans, so they assume that it won't affect them if we don't "bail out" these companies.

Right now, almost no economist will say that if we don't pass this it will have results like the great depression. So far the US government has done more than when Hoover was President.

So what we are talking about is really a credit crisis. Because normal spending will not vanish, people will still buy groceries and pay their electric bills and buy new clothes, etc. Frivolous items will decrease, but it will only slow down.

So if we use the Great depression as an example, in 1930, investments by banks were going bad, so customers ran to the banks to get their money out. This caused hundreds of banks to close - permanently. This has begun today.

Banks now are unwilling to give loans to these big companies or even individuals because the trust is gone. Banks are now investing in T-Notes like they're going out of style. Almost risk free, but low return. Then the money they do lend out is at higher interest rates.

So, you wonder why banks aren't loaning money despite higher interest rates - heck, interest is where the profit is right? Banks are nervous that those who appear to be financially sounds might really not be - look at AIG, Bears Sterns, etc (see trust issue above). Banks also hold a lot of long term assets (mortgages) so their debt is short term, which they take out short term loans to pay off. Their fear is that some other bank will borrow money and not be able to pay it back - so they're hoarding capital.

Our modern economy can not operate without credit. It takes some time for this to become obvious. So this isn't about bailing out Wall Street executives, it's about getting our credit system stabilized, building the trust/confidence that the global economy has in our financial system.

"To do nothing right now is to do what was done during the Great Depression." - Fredrick Mishking, Governor of the Federal Reserve.

[Machine]

So far the US government has done more than when Hoover was President.

That's what scares me worse than anything. They are the cause of the problem, why are we now to trust them with a "solution".

[dukesix]

I do hope even us old salts are still physically flexible.....i.e...the ability to bend over and grab ones ankles will become a requirement shortly if the House passes this abomination. There is a ample supply of pitch forks here in Missouri...if anybody is interested in picking a few up. I'm seriously considering dropping off a few bottles of vaseline at my Congressman's office....just to remind him what he and his co-hort's are doing to all of us.

Dukesix

[SlightlyCatholic]

1528, from L. congressus "a meeting, hostile encounter," pp. of congredi "meet with, fight with," from com- "together" + gradi "to walk," from gradus "a step" (see grade).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none

So...who's up for a REAL congress with Congress? Given our situation, the etymology of the word itself is quite interesting. Just figured that would get some laughs.

[SGM]

For what its worth, I just e-mailed my Congressman telling him NO. But if he is doing what other elected officials are doing, it won't help much. But at least I made my voice heard.

[HairyEyeball]

Maybe I'm missing something: I was under the (obviously mistaken) impression that these maggots were the hired help, employed to serve the will of their masters - We the People - that 60 - 90% telling them they stepped in chit.

Granted, I'm no economist, but even without the lard weighing this obscenity down, it's bad, it's wrong, it's obnoxious. Someone needs to grab both (nut)Houses twixt the snot locker and corksucker and ask where the money will magically appear from: The government has no 'money' other than what it extorts from We the People - those of us, at least, who earn it. Either this digs the deficit deeper, and generations yet unborn will be stuck, each with an individual debt greater than their lifetime earnings, or taxes will consume 90% or more of our earnings, or the government will churn out more fiat money, devaluing the currency to levels not seen since 1930s Germany.

With or without this red herring - which already stinks - the economy will crash, and the longer we put it off, the worse it's going to be when it does...and crash it will. Oh, and has everyone noticed the irony that under all the legal boilerplate, what you have is liberals throwing money at the rich?

The first 'deal' - the one that 'fell through' - had enough votes to pass without a single 'Republican' signing on, and it was the dems themselves that scuttled it for just that reason: No 'Republicans' at all, when the piper must be paid, nowhere to shift the blame. Ladies and gentlemen, pull out your tired, old, thumb-worn copies of the Constitution, pull up the addresses of your elected misrepresentatives, and your dictionary of choce for 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and 'treason'. Just like the fabled 'rope, tree, politician kit, some assembly required'...