Amendments question

[03_SHOOTER]

An interesting question came up the other day, so I thought I'd pass it along;

How many of the Amendments (after the 10th) to the Constitution do not in some way actually "amend" an Article, Section, or clause of the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

[TruBlu]

Well using Shooter's copy of The Constitution (as Amended) located here, my copy of The Constitution (thanks to BillyD on the heads up there), and a little of my own searching, here's what I've come up with (actually credit here but I wanted a synopsis of each rather than the entirety of the Amendments):

11 - Defines the original jurisdiction of the Supreme Court concerning a suit brought against a state by a citizen of another state.

12 - Redefines how the President and Vice-President are chosen by the Electoral College, making the two positions cooperative, rather than first and second highest vote-getters. It also ensures that anyone who becomes Vice-President must be eligible to become President.

13 - Abolished slavery in the entire United States.

14 - Ensures that all citizens of all states enjoyed not only rights on the federal level, but on the state level, too. It removed the three-fifths counting of slaves in the census. It ensured that the United States would not pay the debts of rebellious states. It also had several measures designed to ensure the loyalty of legislators who participated on the Confederate side of the Civil War (last part not so much).

16 - Authorizes the United States to collect income tax without regard to the population of the states. Hooray taxation without representation!!!

17 - Shifted the choosing of Senators from the state legislatures to the people of the states.

20 - Set new start dates for the terms of the Congress and the President, and clarifies how the deaths of Presidents before swearing-in would be handled.

25 - Clarifies even further the line of succession to the Presidency, and establishes rules for a President who becomes unable to perform his duties while in office.

A question of my own: How does the 22nd Amendment not alter the words of The Constitution? After all, it does specify the Presidential term limit: Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of President more than once...

An an interesting side note that I never really thought of: While 26 Amendments have been ratified to our Constitution, the repealing of the 18th by the 21st means that only 25 Amendments are adhered to, a mere 15 being after the Bill of Rights. In context to those Amendments, I think its amazing what has been done in one of the youngest nations of the world, 233 years as of this July 4.

[03_SHOOTER]

TruBlu, you've got the right idea, but go back and review it again. I'm looking for Amendments that do NOT change anything in the original Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[TruBlu]

LOL, let's invert my post there... How about this:

15 - Ensures that race cannot be used as a criteria for voting.

18 - Abolished the sale or manufacture of alcohol in the United States. (Repealed by 21st)

19 - Ensures that gender cannot be used as a criteria for voting.

21 - Repealed the 18th Amendment.

22? - Set a limit on the number of times a President could be elected - two four-year terms.

23 - Grants the District of Columbia (Washington D.C.) the right to three electors in Presidential elections.

24 - Ensured that no tax could be charged to vote for any federal office.

26 - Requires that any law that increased the pay of legislators may not take effect until after an election.

Once again though: Why does the 22nd not change the text?

[03_SHOOTER]

OK TruBlu, you're really trying, so I'll give you a hint.

The 15th simply reinforces the verbiage of Article 4, Section 2, Clause 1 which states that "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens of the several States." As voting for the electors of the Electoral College, as well as for the election of Senators and Representatives is one of the privileges extended by the States to the citizens of the several States, in compliance with Article I and II, as well as in the 14th Amendment, race cannot be used as a means of excluding that privilege. The same would apply to the 19th Amendment recognition of the privilege of women to vote.

As to your 22nd Amendment question, as there is no limitation on the number of terms of office a person may serve as POTUS prior to the 22nd, but it was merely custom established by George Washington, the 22nd mandates that the previous tradition is now a matter of law. (this IS one of the ones I was looking for.)

[TruBlu]

OK, I'm confused now... You are asking for the amendments that don't actually amend our Constitution or Bill of Rights? Your hint seems to tell me that you don't want the ones that amend it and you do want the ones that do amend it... Maybe I'm just reading it incorrectly?

[Billyd]

TruBlu,

Look at it this way:

An amendment changes something that is already there. Think of the Constitution as a contract (which some will argue that it is, but that is for another discussion). To amend the contract means to change one of the terms of said contract. In this case, the Constitution of the United States provides for who elects the Senators of the several states. The 17th Amendment changes that term.

What 03 is looking for is those amendments that do not change something that was already there. For example, the 16th Amendment which permits Congress to tax your income.

[03_SHOOTER]

Originally Posted by Billyd

TruBlu,

Look at it this way:

An amendment changes something that is already there. Think of the Constitution as a contract (which some will argue that it is, but that is for another discussion). To amend the contract means to change one of the terms of said contract. In this case, the Constitution of the United States provides for who elects the Senators of the several states. The 17th Amendment changes that term.

What 03 is looking for is those amendments that do not change something that was already there.

EXACTLY!! Thanks for helping to clarify that Billyd.

Originally Posted by Billyd

For example, the 16th Amendment which permits Congress to tax your income.

One point of order on that one Billyd, the 16th actually modifies Article 1, Section 9, Clause 4 which states; "No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken." The 16th alters that by allowing Congress to "...lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

For example, one that could be argued that did alter any of the Articles, Sections, or Clauses of the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, would be the 18th which prohibited the manufacture, sale, or transportation of alcoholic beverages (but not consumption), although some (including myself ) will argue that it actually was an alteration of the 9th Amendment guarantee that "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people".

[TruBlu]

Maybe I'm having a momentary lapse of consciousness, but I'm sticking with my second post, with the first one being the exact opposite of what you asked for.

[03_SHOOTER]

Your second post is close, but we'll wait a bit and give some others a chance to chime in before I post my answer.