Is there a "Right" to vote?

03_SHOOTER · #1 01-16-2009, 11:58 AM

Is there a "Right" to vote in Federal elections? Not only is there no "right" to vote in Federal elections, there never has been, and there never was any intention to allow "universal suffrage", and for very good reason. The Founding Fathers understood that in order for our great experiment to work, it would require the clear and rational thought of people who were inclined to, and capable of, putting the "General Welfare" of the entire nation above their own selfish wants and desires, and as such in much of early Colonial America, in order to be allowed to vote, even in local and state elections, you had to be a minimum of 21 years old, white, educated, a property owner, and protestant. Now while today that may seem a bit "racist", or "sexists", or however one who fails to consider the context of the times may choose to attempt to slander the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, the fact remains that they determined that those were the only people who were actually inclined to put the nation above themselves.

The fact of the matter is that it is the States who elect their electors to the Electoral College, and therefore it is the States who have the Right to determine who among us is allowed to inform those electors of their wishes concerning who they will cast their votes for. Now, while it is true that various Amendments have been passed defining under what conditions one may not be denied their ability to vote, (female, black, over 18), what most people fail to understand is that the 14th Amendment also acknowledges that the States do in fact have the ability to deny the vote to any of their citizens, for whatever reason they deem necessary (excepting those cases covered by Amendment to the Constitution), and the only result is a decrease in the number of Representatives in the US House by the number of a states citizens that are denied the vote.

In the first 135 years of this nation, that system worked fairly well, including the fact that in those years suffrage was extended to include females and blacks, but where it began to fall apart was with the "bread and circuses" voting of the general public, as we were warned about in the quote often attributed to Alexander Tytler "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury." It is this "bread and circuses" voting by the majority that has resulted in our, now $15 Trillion debt (when one adds in the $5 Trillion insolvency of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac), the constant usurpations and abrogations by our elected mis-representatives, from abridging our Freedom of Speech, our Right to petition for redress of grievance, our Right to "...keep and bear arms...", the slow and steady march towards Socialist/Communist dictatorship by those whom we "elect", and so many others that it would require an entire other thread to explore them fully, that now the Great Experiment that the Founding Fathers has been almost irrevocably destroyed.

If we are in fact to turn the course of our ship of nation back to it's original, the first thing that must be done is to ensure that We The People must ensure that only the voices of those who are educated in the true functions of our nation are heard when it comes to the "right" to vote. As such, I and many others have proposed that before someone is allowed to vote that they should be required to demonstrate their knowledge of not only the Constitution, and Civics in general, but of the candidates and issues that are on the ballot that they are seeking to cast. Contrary to the unwarranted and disingenuous castigations of our opponents, we do not propose any "Jim Crowe" style process, but rather a process no different than that for acquiring a drivers license. Everyone who wishes to vote would be required to pass a test, for which study material would be supplied by the State in which they would be voting.

If it were up to me, I would simply use the new citizenship test, in essay form (no multiple choice) and passage of the test would result in the issuance of a new Voter Registration Card, however, if you score less than 90%, you would not be issued the card, because, frankly, you're too ignorant (and I use that word advisedly) to be permitted to participate in the process. This test, like a Drivers License, would be required to be taken every 4 years, you would be given one "make up" opportunity, and failing that would result in your having to wait 2 years until the next election cycle. I would also require supplemental testing, no more than 45 days prior to an election to ensure that you knew who was actually running in the election for Senator, Representative, and POTUS. Failure to pass this test would result in your Voter Registration Card being confiscated, and would preclude you from voting in that election. I would also eliminate the "straight party ticket" voting, and to be honest would like to see all ballots free of any notation of party affiliation to abolish this crutch of intellectual honesty.

03_SHOOTER · #2 01-16-2009, 11:59 AM

The citizenship test I mentioned above.

Quote:

A. Principles of American Democracy

1. What is the supreme law of the land?

2. What does the Constitution do?

3. The idea of self-government is in the first three words of the Constitution. What are these words?

4. What is an amendment?

5. What do we call the first ten amendments to the Constitution?

6. What is one right or freedom from the First Amendment?

7. How many amendments does the Constitution have?

8. What did the Declaration of Independence do?

9. What are two rights in the Declaration of Independence?

10. What is freedom of religion?

11. What is the economic system in the United States?

12. What is the "rule of law"?

B. System of Government

13. Name one branch or part of the government.

14. What stops one branch of government from becoming too powerful?

15. Who is in charge of the executive branch?

16. Who makes federal laws?

17. What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?

18. How many U.S. Senators are there?

19. We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?

20. Who is one of your state's U.S. Senators?

21. The House of Representatives has how many voting members?

22. We elect a U.S. Representative for how many years?

23. Name your U.S. Representative.

24. Who does a U.S. Senator represent?

25. Why do some states have more Representatives than other states?

26. We elect a President for how many years?

27. In what month do we vote for President?

28. What is the name of the President of the United States now?*

29. What is the name of the Vice President of the United States now?

30. If the President can no longer serve, who becomes President?

31. If both the President and the Vice President can no longer serve, who becomes President?

32. Who is the Commander in Chief of the military?

33. Who signs bills to become laws?

34. Who vetoes bills?

35. What does the President's Cabinet do?

36. What are two Cabinet-level positions?

37. does the judicial branch do?

38. What is the highest court in the United States?

39. How many justices are on the Supreme Court?

40. Who is the Chief Justice of the United States?

41. Under our Constitution, some powers belong to the federal government. What is one power of the federal government?

42. Under our Constitution, some powers belong to the states. What is one power of the states?

43. Who is the Governor of your state?

44. What is the capital of your state?

45. What are the two major political parties in the United States?*

46. What is the political party of the President now?

47. What is the name of the Speaker of the House of Representatives now?

C: Rights and Responsibilities

48. There are four amendments to the Constitution about who can vote. Describe one of them.

49. What is one responsibility that is only for United States citizens?

50. What are two rights only for United States citizens?

51. What are two rights of everyone living in the United States?

52. What do we show loyalty to when we say the Pledge of Allegiance?

53. What is one promise you make when you become a United States citizen?

54. How old do citizens have to be to vote for President?

55. What are two ways that Americans can participate in their democracy?

56. When is the last day you can send in federal income tax forms?*

57. When must all men register for the Selective Service?

AMERICAN HISTORY

A: Colonial Period and Independence

58. What is one reason colonists came to America?

59. Who lived in America before the Europeans arrived?

60. What group of people was taken to America and sold as slaves?

61. Why did the colonists fight the British?

62. Who wrote the Declaration of Independence?

63. When was the Declaration of Independence adopted?

64. There were 13 original states. Name three.

65. What happened at the Constitutional Convention?

66. When was the Constitution written?

67. The Federalist Papers supported the passage of the U.S. Constitution. Name one of the writers.

68. What is one thing Benjamin Franklin is famous for?

69. Who is the "Father of Our Country"?

70. Who was the first President?

B: 1800s

71. What territory did the United States buy from France in 1803?

72. Name one war fought by the United States in the 1800s.

73. Name the U.S. war between the North and the South.

74. Name one problem that led to the Civil War.

75. What was one important thing that Abraham Lincoln did?

76. What did the Emancipation Proclamation do?

77. What did Susan B. Anthony do?

C: Recent American History and Other Important Historical Information

78. Name one war fought by the United States in the 1900s.

79. Who was President during World War I?

80. Who was President during the Great Depression and World War II?

81. Who did the United States fight in World War II?

82. Before he was President, Eisenhower was a general. What war was he in?

83. During the Cold War, what was the main concern of the United States?

84. What movement tried to end racial discrimination?

85. What did Martin Luther King, Jr. do?

86. What major event happened on September 11, 2001 in the United States?

87. Name one American Indian tribe in the United States.

INTEGRATED CIVICS

A: Geography

88. Name one of the two longest rivers in the United States.

89. What ocean is on the West Coast of the United States?

90. What ocean is on the East Coast of the United States?

91. Name one U.S. territory.

92. Name one state that borders Canada.

93. Name one state that borders Mexico.

94. What is the capital of the United States?

95. Where is the Statue of Liberty?

B. Symbols

96. Why does the flag have 13 stripes?

97. Why does the flag have 50 stars?

98. What is the name of the national anthem?

C: Holidays

99. When do we celebrate Independence Day?

100. Name two national U.S. holidays.

Answers

03_SHOOTER · #3 01-16-2009, 01:41 PM

It might also be helpful to review THIS thread which I started a while back.

TruBlu · #4 01-16-2009, 07:38 PM

Testing to-be or would-be voters on civics is a grand idea. The system mentioned would ensure that only those educated on the subject matter of our nation and relevant people of a particular election would be the ones voting. After reading through the test, I'd have to say that 90% of it is learned in high school classes and 10% is learned by simply being aware of where you are. I have only two quarrels with this system.

1. Make it multiple choice. Why? For one, the time it would take for people to grade by hand would take a lot, and money to pay said people would be even more. The point of the test is to prove knowledge, and I think that can be done with a multiple choice test. You may have to make the selection of 'answers' really tricky, but non-the-less I believe you can deem someone capable, especially if passing will be set at a 90%.

2. Making people re-register/renew every four years is a hassle if you have to take the same test over and over again. I know it's spread out over years at a time, but it's the way you put it, it wouldn't be just like a drivers license because when you renew your drivers license (at least in my state) you don't have to re-take a test. I'd say once you 'earn' the 'right to vote,' you retain it, or at least spread the renewal process by two or four more years.

Other than those two tidbits, it's solid and would work. I'd be willing to bet that we wouldn't have the same elected officials over the past 16-20 years if this had been implemented. And just to pose the question, what would it take to have something like this implemented? Would this be at a state or federal level or implementation?

03_SHOOTER · #5 01-16-2009, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruBlu

Testing to-be or would-be voters on civics is a grand idea. The system mentioned would ensure that only those educated on the subject matter of our nation and relevant people of a particular election would be the ones voting. After reading through the test, I'd have to say that 90% of it is learned in high school classes and 10% is learned by simply being aware of where you are. I have only two quarrels with this system.

1. Make it multiple choice. Why? For one, the time it would take for people to grade by hand would take a lot, and money to pay said people would be even more. The point of the test is to prove knowledge, and I think that can be done with a multiple choice test. You may have to make the selection of 'answers' really tricky, but non-the-less I believe you can deem someone capable, especially if passing will be set at a 90%.

I understand the economic reasons you mention. To me it's quite simple though, we're not talking about something as trivial as driving, we're talking about our nations future. Personally I believe the expense would be well worth it. Also, multiple choice tests tend to favor the "ill prepared". If we are to utilized multiple choice, the standard would have to be raised to 95%

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruBlu

2. Making people re-register/renew every four years is a hassle if you have to take the same test over and over again. I know it's spread out over years at a time, but it's the way you put it, it wouldn't be just like a drivers license because when you renew your drivers license (at least in my state) you don't have to re-take a test. I'd say once you 'earn' the 'right to vote,' you retain it, or at least spread the renewal process by two or four more years.

I cannot concur. The test would need to be taken again each 4 years to impart upon people the importance of what they are doing, and if they can't find the time and energy to take a test, then voting isn't very high on their list of priorities, and as such, we should disabuse them of that burden.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruBlu

Other than those two tidbits, it's solid and would work. I'd be willing to bet that we wouldn't have the same elected officials over the past 16-20 years if this had been implemented. And just to pose the question, what would it take to have something like this implemented? Would this be at a state or federal level or implementation?

Thank you. As to having it implemented, that would be up to the states, and it will happen just as soon as pigs fly, eagles dig ditches, and Liberals not only embrace, but demand that illegals sign in at the borders and that all unregistered aliens be unceremoniously THROWN out of the country and told NOT to come back, on pain of death, until they learn to ask permission first, unfettered market capitalism, the uninfringed right to "...keep and bear arms..." without any licensing requirements whatever, and the death of federal Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, WIC, HUD, Section 8, AFDC, Head Start, and all of the other socialist programs that are killing this country.

TruBlu · #6 01-17-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03_SHOOTER

I understand the economic reasons you mention. To me it's quite simple though, we're not talking about something as trivial as driving, we're talking about our nations future. Personally I believe the expense would be well worth it. Also, multiple choice tests tend to favor the "ill prepared". If we are to utilized multiple choice, the standard would have to be raised to 95%.

A 95 percentile on a multiple choice exam is not far fetched, with 100 questions, that's missing five, which is certainly enough. I think that meets an equilibrium between a short answer and multiple choice exam, and it would cut the economic costs and manpower required by ten fold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03_SHOOTER

I cannot concur. The test would need to be taken again each 4 years to impart upon people the importance of what they are doing, and if they can't find the time and energy to take a test, then voting isn't very high on their list of priorities, and as such, we should disabuse them of that burden.

True, and after looking a second time at the could-be questions, some of them will vary through the years, so continuous testing would be not only appropriate, but necessary in order to maintain the viability of the testing in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03_SHOOTER

Thank you. As to having it implemented, that would be up to the states, and it will happen just as soon as pigs fly, eagles dig ditches, and Liberals not only embrace, but demand that illegals sign in at the borders and that all unregistered aliens be unceremoniously THROWN out of the country and told NOT to come back, on pain of death, until they learn to ask permission first, unfettered market capitalism, the uninfringed right to "...keep and bear arms..." without any licensing requirements whatever, and the death of federal Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, WIC, HUD, Section 8, AFDC, Head Start, and all of the other socialist programs that are killing this country.

LOL, I knew that was coming! I think at least one or two states could have a fighting chance (say Alaska and Tennessee), and once those put it out there on the political scene, other states could follow suit. If states can argue their 14th Amendment 'right' well enough, a precedent could be set and the system at hand could come to be.

One more question/concept for now. Each individual state would establish and maintain their own examination, if they so choose to adopt a 'voter viability exam,' correct? With that, not all states would have testing, and those that wouldn't would most likely be those of a blue nature, and those are the ones that house major metropolitan populations. So this system would be counter-productive for certain parties who wish to adopt it because the other would have the simple advantage or more voters. If this was implemented at a federal level it would be mandated to each state and quintessentially remove that problem. Then again that would go against the very core of our government (the one that works I mean, so now minus quite a few years) by having a singular body controlling the collective.

It's a vicious circle...

Billyd · #7 01-18-2009, 10:29 PM

Considering one has no FEDERAL right to vote, why would the FEDERAL government set forth the standard by which one is able to vote (re a civics test). Since the STATE set forth the requirements for voting (other than what is covered via various amendments to the Constitution of the United State), the individual states would have to bear the burden of the suggested testing method.

I think that a fill in the blank/short answer format is better than M/C. That requires some study to pass and the standard should be 95%.

I also believe that in order to vote you should meet some basic requirements other than being of the required age and still converting O2 to CO2 (though not necessarily true in some precincts). One of those is being a landowner. Being a landowner means that you have taken an interest in your community, pay taxes on that land (a rant for another day) and intend, usually, to settle into that community for the long term.

As to paying taxes, sorry guys and gals, but if you get back an amount equal to or greater than what you paid in taxes, sorry, but you have not contributed to the upkeep of the nation. Paying taxes is one of those evils that we endure and those that pay taxes should have a say in how the country is run. If you don't pay taxes, talk to us when you pay them.

If you are on the public dole, guess what, you do not have the right of suffrage. You want to register to vote, be prepared to show a pay-stub.

I know that some out there will disagree with me, but think about what I said. As noted earlier, when the electorate realizes that they can vote themselves a piece of the treasury, our republic will not be long for this earth and we need to reverse this trend towards socialism.

03_SHOOTER · #8 01-19-2009, 01:10 AM

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