Obama OFFICIALLY the President Elect.

[03_SHOOTER]

Just heard on the radio that Congress has just opened and counted the votes of the Electoral College and Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has officially been pronounced President Elect of the United States with 325 votes.

[JohnP]

Just heard on the radio that Congress has just opened and counted the votes of the Electoral College and Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has officially been pronounced President Elect of the United States with 325 votes.

What would've happened if he wasn't?

[SlightlyCatholic]

I feel the Constitutional dissertation train coming...CHOO CHOO!

[03_SHOOTER]

What would've happened if he wasn't?

Given THIS Congress, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Seriously, I doubt it, because if that were the case it would have been all over C-Span in a heartbeat (they covered it live).

[HairyEyeball]

There is still the unsettled question of his citizenship - and the pressure is growing to have proof produced. Should he assume the Presidency without fulfilling the Constitutional requirements, what other elements of the Constitution will be 'irrelevant'? As a usurper, Barack Hussein could not legally even be impeached! For some perspective on the potential consequences, if he is not a citizen of the United States by birth, see: http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=83884

[SlightlyCatholic]

The Constitution mandates the president be a "natural born citizen" of at least 35 years of age. That means born to two American parents on American soil.
The part about two American parents...is that a legal definition? Are there any court cases to back that up? I believe the reason that that SCOTUS wouldn't hear the lawsuit filed in regards to this very issue is because there's no definitive legal definition of "natural born". Corrections/comments on this are appreciated.

[HairyEyeball]

No, that is an uninformed opinion. The laws defining what a 'natural born citizen' have varied over the years, but the law in effect when Barack Hussein was born clearly state that if he was, indeed, born in Kenya he does not qualify. If, as he currently alleges, he was born in Hawaii he is as much a 'citizen' as the anchor babies born to illegals.

Since court cases are a matter of public record, any such should be available either online or at any law library - that part of the question should have been researched on your own - but the relevant federal legislation in effect at the time of his birth clearly disqualifies him if he was born anywhere other than on U.S. territory.

[Billyd]

The part about two American parents...is that a legal definition? Are there any court cases to back that up? I believe the reason that that SCOTUS wouldn't hear the lawsuit filed in regards to this very issue is because there's no definitive legal definition of "natural born". Corrections/comments on this are appreciated.


While there is no difinitive definition to what "natural born citizen" means, William Blackstone, here (http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_4_citizenships1.html), provides a very good discussion of what a natural born citizen is and how citizenship is conferred.

[SlightlyCatholic]

The commentary is very good. In regards to the court cases, I will be looking for the pertinent ones momentarily. However, I needed some sort of direction for my search (hence my asking about it here first). My intention was not for anyone here to do my own research for me but rather for an educated member of the forum to give me a foothold in the subject so as to make my initial searching that much more focused.

[03_SHOOTER]

There is still the unsettled question of his citizenship - and the pressure is growing to have proof produced. Should he assume the Presidency without fulfilling the Constitutional requirements, what other elements of the Constitution will be 'irrelevant'? As a usurper, Barack Hussein could not legally even be impeached! For some perspective on the potential consequences, if he is not a citizen of the United States by birth, see: http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=83884

It is quite interesting that the Courts have somehow determined that We The People have no Right to "petition for redress of grievance", but then again, the Courts have expressed in recent years a tendency to paraphrase Humpty Dumpty in that they obviously feel that "words mean what I want them too mean, only for as long as I want them to mean it".

As to the article, I must point out one error on the part of the author in that he claims that the Constitution mandates that in order to be a "natural born citizen" that the individual be born to "two American parents on American soil." I know that you are aware of this, so it is for the benefit of those who may not be aware, the author is in error. The Constitution requires that one be a "natural born citizen", but the definition of what a "natural born citizen" is, is defined by Congress and codified in the United States Code under Title 8, and it does not require that both parents be US citizens, nor that the person be born on US soil.

The question is, if PEBO was in fact born in Kenya to an American mother and a Kenyan father, is he in fact a "natural born" US citizen? Considering the provisions of Title 8, 1409 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001409----000-.html#a) because of the fact that PEBO's parents were not legally married, as the elder Obama was already married, and had 4 other children with another woman in Kenya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr.), which nullifies the marriage between PEBO's mother and father, meaning he was born out of wedlock. As such, and since the elder Obama was not a naturalized citizen of the United States, in accordance with Title 8, 1409 (a), PEBO would not be a "natural born citizen" of the United States except for Title 8, 1409 (c) which grants "natural born citizen" status to children born out of wedlock after December 23, 1952 if the mother was a US national at the time of the birth of the child. This has changed since 1961 when PEBO was born, as at that time, citizenship followed the father rather than the mother which begs the question of whether the current law, or the law at the time of his birth holds precendent, however the following may render that question moot.

Where this gets really sticky is that according to the provisions of Title 8, 1431 (a)(1)(2) and (3) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001431----000-.html), if PEBO was in fact born in Kenya, he would only acquire "natural born citizenship" if;
(1) At least one parent of the child is a citizen of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization.
(2) The child is under the age of eighteen years.
(3) The child is residing in the United States in the legal and physical custody of the citizen parent pursuant to a lawful admission for permanent residence. which means that if PEBO was in fact born in Kenya, then PEBO's mother would have had to have submitted the appropriate applications to the State Department, and admission would have had to have been granted by the State Department for "lawful admission for permanent residence" prior to PEBO's 18th birthday in order for him to be considered a "natural born citizen". Since there is no evidence of the aforementioned applications having been filed with the State Department prior to PEBO's 18th birthday, it would appear that, given the information currently available, that if PEBO was in fact born in Kenya, not only is he not a "natural born citizen", he's not even a citizen AT ALL!

If on the other hand, it can be demonstrated that PEBO was in fact born in Hawaii, then Title 8, 1405 applies, and he is a "natural born" US citizen, regardless of the nationality or marital relationship of his parents.

Given the divisiveness created by the questionable nature of the ascendancy of President Bush following the 2000 election, and the severe amount of disrespect that some have heaped upon him, and the office since, in order to prevent the same type of potential divisiveness attending a new administration, I agree that, given the gravity of the question at hand, the Courts would be wise to insist that the Vault Copy of his birth certificate, bearing the signature of the attending physician, and PEBO's foot prints should be verified, and demonstrated to the entire American public in every news outlet available in order to satisfy the question, and settle this matter once and for all.

[03_SHOOTER]

Given that the discussion has become a Constitutional one, rather than simply a matter of news, I have relocated the thread to the appropriate sub-Forum.