Protesting Israel - What Good Does it Do?

[PhoenixCadet]

Really, I should be asking what good does protesting in general do? In light of the current exchanges between Israel and Palestine, that's all that's on the news. The conflict, and the protestors.

I don't care what your stance on the issue is, but do these people (protesting against Israel) think they're actually accomplishing something? Seems to me they're just simple attention-whores using this to try and get themselves propped up into the spotlight. I read this comment someone posted on their Facebook page (one of those "friend of a friend of a friend of a friend" type things) after she got back from a local protest here in San Diego, and her words were "That was great, guys! It's amazing what a bunch of us Arabs can accomplish!".

:sleepy:

Did you really actually "accomplish" anything? There's still fightin' goin' on, so no, you didn't. If you really wanted to do something about it, get off your [fourth point of contact] and actually do something to support what you believe. Clogging public areas, yelling and waiving signs for a few hours doesn't do anything worth a damn, except piss people off ('cause more than likely, you're gettin' in people's way) - especially when you're not even on the same continent where the fighting is. If you're going to protest, at least protest in an area that's frequented by high-echelon politicans (i.e. the White House). Maybe they'll hear you, and do something about it. (Isn't that why you're doing this in the first place?) Protesting on Main St., USA doesn't help. (Nor do I think protesting period helps, but that's beside the point.)

(I ruled out politely contacting their local political leaders, because they probably wouldn't be able to comprehend that idea in the first place.)


Stupid people.


</rant over>

[-BuLL-]

Did they even know why they were protesting? Did they think that the nice-never-do-wrong-super-duper Arabs were in the right? Did they not know that after constant rocket and mortar attacks every single day of the year makes people angry? I just don't get why they(protestors) would even protest when they(Hamas) have been launching rockets and mortars into Israel every damn day. I'm glad Israel is taking action. I was watching the news the other day and one Hamas leader said, "This is a fight to the death." You know what, let's fulfill their wishes. I will accept temporary raised gas prices if it means elimination of a terrorist organization.

[PhoenixCadet]

Did they even know why they were protesting? Did they think that the nice-never-do-wrong-super-duper Arabs were in the right? Did they not know that after constant rocket and mortar attacks every single day of the year makes people angry? I just don't get why they(protestors) would even protest when they(Hamas) have been launching rockets and mortars into Israel every damn day. I'm glad Israel is taking action. I was watching the news the other day and one Hamas leader said, "This is a fight to the death." You know what, let's fulfill their wishes. I will accept temporary raised gas prices if it means elimination of a terrorist organization.


Debating the topic of the protest wasn't really my intention, rather, the protesters themselves - however, I highly doubt any of them (especially those in our country) really actually know anything about the situation. I don't care what the issue is, I really think protesters in general have no clue. Like I said in my initial post, if you really, really cared enough to want to change it (rather than essentially scream "Arab power!" - in this case), they need to get up off their rear-ends and do something.

Eh. YMMV.

[-BuLL-]

Sorry, maybe I was just venting in your thread.:D I do agree that protesting in average America won't help. Protesting in the U.S. at all probably won't help. I just want it to stay a Middle East matter and hope we don't get really involved. Hopefully we will just send money and bombs(we sure aren't allowed to use them).

[Sarah81]

Protesting spreads a message, especially when the media covers the demonstration. In theory, this could be a powerful tool. One could possibly unite a large group of people, spread out all over the world in some cases, to stand up and do something about whatever's pissing them off.

However, the reality is that protesters are not generally the types of people who will do something productive. The effort that's required to write misspelled slogans on poster board is almost too much for the average protester. (I'll never forget the photo of a protester with a sign that referred to the opposing group as "morans.")

They have just enough motivation to send out the message, but most of the people who are "moved" by this are barely capable of waving their own signs. People who really care are often already doing something productive about the problem, and tend to be better informed than the sign-waving "morans" (cough, cough) anyway.

In other words: No, protesting doesn't tend to do anything useful, at least as far as I've seen.

[Drill for life]

"That was great, guys! It's amazing what a bunch of us Arabs can accomplish!".



Well I feel kind of bad, I was at work yesterday[space](Kroger) and this Arab guy brought me this Briefcase and said he found it out in the parking lot, well I was suspicious[space](we get drunks,[space]Junkies and pedefials that walk around our parking lot) so I opened up the briefcase looking for something[space](gun,[space]bomb,[space]drugs, etc.) My boss came over and said "What are you doing[punctuation]" and I replied" This guy gave it to me so I[space]was searching it" and she asked if it was a Arab guy, it turns out he is always finding stuff in the Parking Lot. I feel real bad, I added to the stero type.

I did not search it just becasue he was Arab, it is protocall in my store.

[Sarah81]

Well I feel kind of bad, I was at work yesterday[space](Kroger) and this Arab guy brought me this Briefcase and said he found it out in the parking lot, well I was suspicious[space](we get drunks,[space]Junkies and pedefials that walk around our parking lot) so I opened up the briefcase looking for something[space](gun,[space]bomb,[space]drugs, etc.) My boss came over and said "What are you doing[punctuation]" and I replied" This guy gave it to me so I[space]was searching it" and she asked if it was a Arab guy, it turns out he is always finding stuff in the Parking Lot. I feel real bad, I added to the stero type.

I did not search it just becasue he was Arab, it is protocall in my store.

Your willful, repetitive decimation of my beloved language aside, I really don't see your point. What does a person who discovered, and turned in, a briefcase have to do with the subject of this thread? We're discussing the act of protesting and its alleged usefulness, not "The day I felt bad for rifling through a strange briefcase."

[Drill for life]

As I stressed earlier yesterday I just got my computerf[incorrect space] rom the shop and have not had the chance to put Word on it[space](so I cannot use spellcheck (note: there are ways to do spellcheck without MS Word, try iespell.com)). It had a lot to do with the topic, it said look at what a bunch of us Arabs can do, when I wrote about what happened at work yesterday I wrote how sterotypes can just knock down all that work.

[Sarah81]

I'm sorry. I forgot that MS Word is the only way to learn, and properly apply, the basic concepts of our language. What was your excuse before your computer died?

This utter lack of attention to detail makes it difficult - nearly impossible, really - to decipher meaning. I have a good idea of what you're trying to say, but I'm not going to do the work that you aren't willing to do yourself. If you want me to receive your message, you have to make an effort to give me something that I don't have to mentally edit and revise several times to begin to comprehend.

[TruBlu]

Really, I should be asking what good does protesting in general do?

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq332/fjlearyiv/photobrowne.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq332/fjlearyiv/Tianasquare.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq332/fjlearyiv/2005-1-16-mlk.jpg

Protests can be powerful acts to promote a change, stop an act that is disagreeable to the party involved, or allow said group to stay in accordance of their ideals and thought processes. Lets define protest according to Webster's NewWorld Dictionary. 1. to state positively affirm solemnly; assert. 2. to make objection to; speak strongly against. As a noun, a document formally objecting to something. Now that we have the definition of protest in our minds, lets take something that I doubt anyone here may ever object to: our Declaration of Independence. It is a document formally objecting to something, that is colonial rule of the people occupying the areas, that resulted in a positive change (that is unless you disapprove of how our nation came to be, which is fine if you do).

I don't care what your stance on the issue is, but do these people (protesting against Israel) think they're actually accomplishing something?

I won't say whether or not I think they are actually accomplishing something, but I will say with firm belief that they are making the attempt to actually accomplish something in a way that appeals to them.

If you really wanted to do something about it, get off your [fourth point of contact] and actually do something to support what you believe.

And what is actually doing something to support what you believe? Should they go to Israel or the Gaza strip and take up arms? Oh wait, it was a peaceful demonstration. Maybe they should go over there and sit in a minefield or on tanks with little signs saying, "Please stop we don't really approve of what you are doing."

I would just like to hear your ideas of 'actually doing something,' as opposed to doing something like taking part in a protest.

Stupid people.

I hope not all protesters are stupid people, because you and I would then be stupid people, seeing as though you have made a protest against their protest and I have protested your protest.

I don't care what your stance on the issue is

Well, I care about my stance, and while not directly related to the subject of your post, that is besides the title, I would like to post up my stance on the current situation and protest because I'm already here talking about it.

As to the actual situation, not the protests that is, I fully support Israel's response. They are taking the situation and putting them in control. They are no longer allowing these terrorists to deny their people of life. It is to my belief that the only way to rid terrorists from operating is not to capture them or let them agree to cease-fire, but to decimate them. Kill them where they stand and kill anyone who supports the murders of the innocent. Ideology that has been branded into the minds of men who may or may not understand what they are doing is not something that a document or talk can rid, but I can guarantee that a bullet to said mind will.

As to the protests, let them protest. It is their idea, and as long as the protests do not manifest into anything short of death, what's the problem? What are these people doing that angers people so much? A few minutes late to work or dropping your kids off at school? I think you've got a viable excuse. I don't agree with what they are protesting and believe that some may want only to feel a belonging to potential change. And I fully believe that some of these people may believe that situations such as these can be solved with peace, and you know what? I admire that because my mind does not always think like that. If we didn't have those kind of people, people like me may have to make decisions that could vastly alter situations for better or for worse. It's almost a checks and balances, but for your conscience.

Of course there is that one little thing about all of this: The side of the terrorists. What I mean by this is that they aren't terrorists in their eyes, they are progressive elements to promote a change in the only way they know how. To them, we may be the terrorists... And I'm not a sympathizer either, I'm a realist.

[PhoenixCadet]

Your post.

The protests in Tianamen Square were done by Chinese citizens, in their country, against the Chinese government. The protests led by the good Dr. Martin Luther King were done in America, against those in America who were treating African-Americas poorly. The current protests are being done (at least the ones in my reference) in America, by Americans for something thousands of miles away, that America has nothing to do with, that will most likely not affect the majority of the people protesting here.

This is what I have a hard time with. I fail to see how protesting (in any form) in America, on this issue, will help Palestine. One of your comments asked me if I felt these people should go to the region in question and take up arms for their cause. With the way I hear some of these people talking, you'd think they'd be all for that (if not already doing it), but they're not. They're protesting with a comfort zone of thousands of miles in-between them and the hostilities.

If they really wanted to help, instead of (what is, in my mind) attention-whoring, go volunteer your time with or donate to one of the numerous Israeli-Palestinean peace organizations. From a quick Google search, some of the pages I came across listed a ton. Go contact your politicans and get them to support a U.S. backed peace movement. Standing on the corner of Anytown, USA, yelling and holding signs about a conflict not even on this continent won't help.

[SlightlyCatholic]

The protests in Tianamen Square were done by Chinese citizens, in their country, against the Chinese government. The protests led by the good Dr. Martin Luther King were done in America, against those in America who were treating African-Americas poorly. The current protests are being done (at least the ones in my reference) in America, by Americans for something thousands of miles away, that America has nothing to do with, that will most likely not affect the majority of the people protesting here.

Should we have let Hitler round up millions of Jews and gas them because Americans weren't personally affected by it? What about Saddam gassing Kurds in Northern Iraq? I fail to see how something not affecting us personally dictates an absence of action if we as a nation are capable of acting. With your logic, all humanitarian aid in Africa should be stopped as well.

I fail to see how protesting (in any form) in America, on this issue, will help Palestine.

If nothing else, it raises awareness. This is often one of the most important things that can be done for a cause.

If they really wanted to help, instead of (what is, in my mind) attention-whoring, go volunteer your time with or donate to one of the numerous Israeli-Palestinean peace organizations. From a quick Google search, some of the pages I came across listed a ton. Go contact your politicans and get them to support a U.S. backed peace movement. Standing on the corner of Anytown, USA, yelling and holding signs about a conflict not even on this continent won't help.

Some protesters are, as you describe, attention whores. However, many are simply doing what they feel they can do given the circumstances. Many (especially in this economy) can't just donate to an organization or get up and leave their jobs and families to donate time. As far as contacting politicians, I'm not sure that the public has too much faith in that as a viable alternative to vocally expressing their discontent through public protest. It's not black and white, and there are many motivating factors to why people do what they do.

[PhoenixCadet]

Should we have let Hitler round up millions of Jews and gas them because Americans weren't personally affected by it? What about Saddam gassing Kurds in Northern Iraq? I fail to see how something not affecting us personally dictates an absence of action if we as a nation are capable of acting. With your logic, all humanitarian aid in Africa should be stopped as well.

You're missing the point entirely, Tim. I never once even mentioned getting America involved in armed conflict to help Israel. On that point, I'd be all for it. I'm talking strictly about the protesters. I'd have said it about protesters protesting Hitler in America, had I been around then. I'd have said it about protestors against Saddam in our country, if I had seen them. What good would it do to do that here, in our country? Do something to actually help. Getting involved militarily would help, and I'd actually be for that. (If there had been people doing it during WWII, I'd ask them why the heck they were standing on the street corner in America protesting and not in uniform and overseas helping in the fight.) I support Israel 100%. Standing around on the street corner on another continent doesn't help. Just like those who scream that we need to help those in Africa. Don't just stand there with signs, actually go help then. Join an aid organization. Be a part of the help.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Ok, I see what you're saying.

With this said, let me ask you this:

What is the husband with three children and a wife and a modest income supposed to do? They can't volunteer time and they can't donate money.

[PhoenixCadet]

What is the husband with three children and a wife and a modest income supposed to do? They can't volunteer time and they can't donate money.

I assume you're getting at "protesting as an alternative if you can't donate your time or money". If you can't volunteer time to reasonably help out one a cause, why are you waisting your time protesting the opposition?

[navytrooper]

I'm leaning towards TruBlu's side on this. I don't condemn the protesters for protesting, but... it's not as if the United States was attacking Hamas. People are walking up and down the streets of America yelling "Stop the attacks on Hamas!" when the United States has nothing to do with it, and for that matter cannot do anything about it, short of going to war with Israel, which could have horrible consequences. If you're going to protest against the Israeli government, why do it in the U.S.? Send a letter to Israel or something. It doesn't matter if the President himself agrees with you (the protester). We aren't the ones attacking, so why protest on our streets?

On the other hand, it is their given right and there is no use protesting against protesting. Also, there is a chance that the protests in the U.S. will (through the media) reach the eyes of the Israeli government, although I doubt it will change anything. Hamas had it coming....:M249SAW:

[Drill for life]

Protest can also be viewed in the wrong way(especially War protest) at my school three years ago(my LET 1 year) this club organized a walk-out and a protest(they where protesting OIF) and Channel two news came and videotaped and took interviews, guess who was out there. Half of the Senior NCO's and Officers. They interviewed out Battalion Sergeant Major and our S-4, our SAI was mad he demoted all of the cadets involved to Cadet.

[PhoenixCadet]

If you're going to protest against the Israeli government, why do it in the U.S.? Send a letter to Israel or something.

My point exactly.

On the other hand, it is their given right and there is no use protesting against protesting.

I'm not "protesting". They can do whatever the heck they please. They're in America, and this is a free country. I'm simply giving my opinion on the side that I feel they're not doing much of anything other than, as I've said countless times, attention-whoring. Get out there and actually do something.

They have the time to protest, I don't buy into this "can't afford to donate time or money" agrument. That's a pile of crap. Especially with those in my area (i.e. a lot of "rich folks"). If you have the time to stand on a street corner in protest, go get a second job or something to donate money. Use that time to volunteer with a peace organziation.

[PhoenixCadet]

About 200 demonstrators voicing their opinions on the Hamas-Israeli situation met in a loud protest in Balboa Park Sunday afternoon.

The two sides, carrying signs near the Museum of Natural History, gathered about 1 p.m.

They spent a good portion of the time shouting at each other, said Morris Casuto, regional director of the Anti Defamation League.

Police were called to ensure the protest did not turn violent. Officers said the demonstration has been peaceful.

This was from one of my local news sites.

Just imagine what 200 people could do to actually help out a cause, if they wern't standing in the middle of a park with signs "peacefully" shouting at eachother. Go start a fund-raiser or something to send funds towards your cause, maybe?

I guess I'm alone in thinking protestors could really learn to utilize their time in a more efficient way.

[Drill for life]

On the other hand, it is their given right and there is no use protesting against protesting.

Well there is, here is a example:
Let's say a friend of yours is falsely accused of first degree murder and the jury sentences him to death. Ten years go by and it's his time to be Lethally injected and a coupple of the witnesses tell the media there claims are false and the court re-sentences him and he is found not guilty and people start protesting that he should be re-sentenced to death it is your right to protest your protest.

I hope this makes sense, to some people it wouldn't.

[fjer]

While I think that the protesters in this particular case are completely wrong, and likely have no idea what they are really protesting; the protest itself makes sense. The first thing you need to consider is that if the US withdrew support from Israel, Israel's strategy might change; these protests help give the appearance (accurate or not) that the American people oppose our aid to Israel; something politicians are likely to pay attention to.

[fjer]

Well there is, here is a example:
Let's say a friend of yours is falsely accused of first degree murder and the jury sentences him to death. Ten years go by and it's his time to be Lethally injected and a coupple of the witnesses tell the media there claims are false and the court re-sentences him and he is found not guilty and people start protesting that he should be re-sentenced to death it is your right to protest your protest.

I hope this makes sense, to some people it wouldn't.

He's referring to protesting the concept of protesting, not protesting a particular protest.

[PhoenixCadet]

He's referring to protesting the concept of protesting, not protesting a particular protest.

Exactly. Which is why (in my first post) I mentioned that I don't care what someone's opinion on the matter is. I'm simply talking about the idea of protesting, itself. Now, if you want to go into who's right and who's wrong in the Israel / Palestine conflict, feel free to start another thread on it. That wasn't my intention with this topic, though.

[Drill for life]

He's referring to protesting the concept of protesting, not protesting a particular protest.

I know that I was using that as a example.

[PhoenixCadet]

I know that I was using that as a example.

Drill,

I'm not arguing that people don't or shouldn't have the right to protest. If I didn't support people's right to protest (even things I highly disagree with), I wouldn't be trying and praying to be able to get into the military, despite my medical disqualification. I'm in full support of all American's freedoms.

I'm simply trying to figure out why people who feel so strongly for something would rather stand on a street corner and waive signs and yell, than get out and do something. (Like I said previously, I don't buy into the 'don't have time or money' argument. If you can stand on a street corner for a few hours, you can donate your time directly towards a cause. If you don't have money, and want to contribute that way, use those hours to do a fund raiser of some sort.)

Productivity is my agrument. "Protesting" in it's most common form, isn't "productive".

[navytrooper]

"Protesting" in it's most common form, isn't "productive".

Depends on how you carry it out, and who you're protesting to. It could be raising an issue that is escaping the public eye.

Although I must agree that the Israel/Hamas protesting is slightly pointless and not well thought out.

[TruBlu]

The protests in Tianamen Square were done by Chinese citizens, in their country, against the Chinese government. The protests led by the good Dr. Martin Luther King were done in America, against those in America who were treating African-Americas poorly. The current protests are being done (at least the ones in my reference) in America, by Americans for something thousands of miles away, that America has nothing to do with, that will most likely not affect the majority of the people protesting here.

This is what I have a hard time with. I fail to see how protesting (in any form) in America, on this issue, will help Palestine. One of your comments asked me if I felt these people should go to the region in question and take up arms for their cause. With the way I hear some of these people talking, you'd think they'd be all for that (if not already doing it), but they're not. They're protesting with a comfort zone of thousands of miles in-between them and the hostilities.

An understandable argument, but not when taken in the context of my rebuttal to your original posting which was 'what good does protesting in general do?' I gave very recognizable examples of protesting that show good being done as an end result. Also, with the addition of the all important location, location, location, why can't protests in one country affect what goes on in other countries, or continents at that? If the idea of protesting can spread, then cannot the idea being protested spread? Take this into example: Mohandas Ghandi of India was famous for his methods of protest. The idea of civil disobedience was affirmed by Ghandi, and it spread because it worked and yielded results. The idea of civil disobedience as a form of protest is not limited to India or Asia or Eastern Hemisphere. It is a worldly idea now because people became aware of it's mission. Now the same can be applied to an idea of protest. You raise awareness by spreading a message. By gaining awareness to the subject at hand, you have taken the first step towards changing the situation. From there it's just a matter of support.

Another point I would like to make is that protesting is a form of democratic institution. It's the right to assembly. Ponder this: What's the difference between a protest and a pep-rally?

They're protesting with a comfort zone of thousands of miles in-between them and the hostilities.

An interesting statement and honestly I'm not sure if there really is a correct response that I could give. I would have to agree with you on the comfort zone, and would like to add that many protesters who act within a comfort zone are the ones that may not truly support what the protest is calling for. But there are those few who truly believe in what they are saying, and those are the ones that are the true protesters. It would certainly be interesting to see who would actually go to the location of the situation and protest there without any different situations (that is to say, no armed guards or barricades or any form of protection).

If they really wanted to help, instead of (what is, in my mind) attention-whoring, go volunteer your time with or donate to one of the numerous Israeli-Palestinean peace organizations. From a quick Google search, some of the pages I came across listed a ton. Go contact your politicans and get them to support a U.S. backed peace movement. Standing on the corner of Anytown, USA, yelling and holding signs about a conflict not even on this continent won't help.

Ah, but to the ideologues, it's not about money. Money means nothing to these situations, and sending money for relief, in essence, defeats the purpose of their mission in the first place. Lets get hypothetical because we are dealing in ideas not specific events. A group claims an area of land, which is also claimed by another group. After negotiations, or lack thereof, neither party comes to equal terms and fighting begins. A third group calls for a cease to all fighting. Now the third group is asking for the ceasing of all fighting, not for the relief of said area. If the third group sends money to relief organizations in the area they aren't focused on the original mission. Harsh? Well not really. That idea based on another idea that the people who are asking for relief are collateral damage, and the call to stop fighting will cease collateral damage from happening. So instead of 'helping' the damaged, they are preventing more from being damaged. After that there could be a movement of relief, but that isn't the situation between these groups at the moment.

As for time, it's really the same as money. They don't want time, they want it to stop. To them, that is the protesters in our hypothetical situation, time spent helping a relief organization or similar institution is time not spent calling for a cease to the fighting.



What I would like to do is take this all the way down to the very base of protesting, which is really what you asked at first. How about this, I'll state why I support the idea of protesting and you will state why you do not support the idea of protesting.

I support protesting because it is a call to action. It is an assembly of people who are all oriented towards a common goal. Protesting is democracy at it's best, and sometimes its worst. The idea of protesting does not involve the subject of the protest, but the protest itself. That is to say how it is organized, conducted, and the product it yields. Now, what is so wrong about a collection of people oriented towards a common goal yielding a product for positive change (and by positive change I mean a change that the collective majority would like to see, not the morality or legality as that would delve into the subject matter)?

I'm not "protesting".

to make objection to; speak strongly against

How are you not protesting when you make a statement that makes an objection to an idea and speak strongly against it? To me, rants are dialogues that speak strongly against a subject.

[PhoenixCadet]

What I would like to do is take this all the way down to the very base of protesting, which is really what you asked at first.

I failed to include in my initial post that I don't mean "protest" as in things such as boycotts, etc. I'm referring to what average, main-stream, current day "protesting" is. Standing on a street-corner, waiving signs and yelling. Regardless of what a dictionary says, I see "protesting" as something totally different than what it is. That's my view, I've stated it, and that's that. I'm not forcing you or anyone else to conform to it - I'm throwing it out there for the sense of debate.

Just answer me one simple question. Do you honestly believe that when this ordeal is "calmed down" ('cause it sure ain't going to be "settled", unless, of course, Israel blows Palestine off the earth), that your average street-corner standing, sign-waiving American with no ties to the problem what-so-ever, will have had any impact on the situation at all?

[TruBlu]

I failed to include in my initial post that I don't mean "protest" as in things such as boycotts, etc. I'm referring to what average, main-stream, current day "protesting" is. Standing on a street-corner, waiving signs and yelling. Regardless of what a dictionary says, I see "protesting" as something totally different than what it is. That's my view, I've stated it, and that's that. I'm not forcing you or anyone else to conform to it - I'm throwing it out there for the sense of debate.

Ah, so this thread is not a discussion of protesting, but a particular method of protesting that seems to repeat itself but not exactly amount to anything more than headache. Sorry, I thought for the past few posts that you wanted to discuss the idea of protesting! I'm simply talking about the idea of protesting, itself. Oh you were, hmm... I'm not trying to belittle here, but before we go and make certain statements, we need to be clear about the topic at hand. This has become a misleading thread in that the title states "Protesting Israel - What Good Does it Do?" Then the first post contradicts the title and brings up the general idea of protesting to be useless. Then even later another post brings up the idea that the thread was meant to oppose a particular method of protesting. Just what exactly would you like to discuss?

Just answer me one simple question. Do you honestly believe that when this ordeal is "calmed down" ('cause it sure ain't going to be "settled", unless, of course, Israel blows Palestine off the earth), that your average street-corner standing, sign-waiving American with no ties to the problem what-so-ever, will have had any impact on the situation at all?

Hell no I don't, but that's not what you were originally asking, and in the context of our conversation, that is our posts in response to each other, I've kept the two discussions separate.

OK, so are your proponent or opponent to protesting, and not in the sense of what it may or may not be today, but at its base?

[PhoenixCadet]

:sleepy:

Dude, you really, really need to calm down. It's a discussion on an internet forum. Don't take it personally, 'cause I hate to break it to ya, but it's not. I should've worded the title differently, and I admitted that. What else do you want me to do? Bow down and kiss your [FPOC]?

[TruBlu]

:sleepy:

Dude, you really, really need to calm down. It's a discussion on an internet forum. Don't take it personally, 'cause I hate to break it to ya, but it's not. I should've worded the title differently, and I admitted that. What else do you want me to do? Bow down and kiss your [FPOC]?

I'm not angry or excited, I'm just stating my opinion on a subject. You are taking this as an argument obviously, and not a discussion, therefore placing harsh intonations in my wording while you read it. Think about it, because it's an internet forum there is no set emotional grasp on a discussion outside of little smilies that obviously perfectly portray someones thought process.

And I don't want you to do anything more than answer that last question I asked but was seemingly ignored.

[PhoenixCadet]

I'm not angry or excited, I'm just stating my opinion on a subject. You are taking this as an argument obviously, and not a discussion, therefore placing harsh intonations in my wording while you read it. Think about it, because it's an internet forum there is no set emotional grasp on a discussion outside of little smilies that obviously perfectly portray someones thought process.

And I don't want you to do anything more than answer that last question I asked but was seemingly ignored.

Sign 2. What appears to be reverse psychology. (Wait a tick, I interpreted that the wrong way. Again! My bad.)

In response to my ever so rude ignoring of your question, by the dictionary definition of "protest", of course I'm alright with that. I "protest" every day. :devil: Again, like I admitted earlier, I didn't think anyone would take this as deeply as you, and didn't feel like going into the exact, word-for-word dictionary definition of the word "protest". I'm simply talking about those who do so by today's average definition (i.e. sign-waiving and yelling).

[TruBlu]

In response to my ever so rude ignoring of your question, by the dictionary definition of "protest", of course I'm alright with that. I "protest" every day. :devil: Again, like I admitted earlier, I didn't think anyone would take this as deeply as you, and didn't feel like going into the exact, word-for-word dictionary definition of the word "protest". I'm simply talking about those who do so by today's average definition (i.e. sign-waiving and yelling).

I wasn't ever trying to attack you, and I'm sorry if you feel as though I did. It's just to me, well I don't take things at face value. I always dig deeper into situations, it's just my nature to examine concepts and ideology and things like that, it just interests me. And as to the word for word dictionary definition, it was simply used to dispel the 'average definition,' which I can't be so sure as to call it 'average.'

Anyways, it is of no consequence.

[PhoenixCadet]

I wasn't ever trying to attack you, and I'm sorry if you feel as though I did. It's just to me, well I don't take things at face value. I always dig deeper into situations, it's just my nature to examine concepts and ideology and things like that, it just interests me. And as to the word for word dictionary definition, it was simply used to dispel the 'average definition,' which I can't be so sure as to call it 'average.'

Anyways, it is of no consequence.

No worries man. I guess it comes from where I live (and maybe the people I hang out with :dontgetit:). I hear or see the word "protest", and I think of pickett lines and marching down Main Street.

YMMV.

[fjer]

PhoenixCadet, your main argument seems to be that protesting is pointless because they could do more by lending their time or money to the cause; remember, however, that Hamas is officially considered terrorist organization by the US government; sending money to support them could end very badly. Protesting in an attempt to sway public (and thus government) opinion is really their best option (well, actually their best option would be to not support terrorists, but hey).

[PhoenixCadet]

PhoenixCadet, your main argument seems to be that protesting is pointless because they could do more by lending their time or money to the cause; remember, however, that Hamas is officially considered terrorist organization by the US government; sending money to support them could end very badly. Protesting in an attempt to sway public (and thus government) opinion is really their best option (well, actually their best option would be to not support terrorists, but hey).

Like I said in a previous post, I was using this specific case as an example (and now that I see it, that was quite stupid being that they actually are considered a terrorist organization). Regardless of that, there are ways of supporting the situation without directly supporting Hamas (or the Israeli gov't for that matter). There are a ton of non-governmental agencies dedicated to the peaceful solution of this problem.