Complete ignorance

[Armed Drill Addict]

http://dddd5.com/marine-corps-drill-instructors/

I came across this article on the internet, and the complete ignorance of it appalled me.

Marine Corps Drill Instructors
October 13th, 2008 · No Comments
With the unpopularity of the current US war effort, the flaws and injustices of Marine Corps recruiting are exposed on a daily basis. Marine Corps recruiters will do everything and anything possible, including lying, to get your kid to join up while they’re still in high school and too young and stupid to know what is best for them. They only have one goal: to get your kid to sign up for the Marines. Ethics do not matter to them. Honesty does not matter to them. As a parent, you had best beware.

Of course, if Marine Corps recruiters are bad, Marine Corps drill instructors are awful. You have to remember that in any army, basic training is one third physical conditioning and two thirds brainwashing. This is especially true in an elite branch of the Army such as the Marine Corps. Marine Corps drill instructors are there to break you down and then build you back up. They will humiliate you, abuse you, work you to the point of physical exhaustion, and do anything that they can to strip your old personality away. They do this with the goal of ‘making you into a Marine’. What this really means is destroying the person who was there before, and putting a slavishly obedient and violent killing machine in its place. They rarely succeed in doing this completely, but it is certainly the goal.

I’m not saying that a Marine Corps drill instructor is necessarily an evil person. Many Marine Corps drill instructors are nice in their personal lives. It is just that they serve an institution whose goal is to make you into a violent fighting machine. Marine Corps drill instructors, and the Marines in general, do not need you to be able to think. They do not need you to be able to morally question and decide what is right for yourself. All that they need you to be able to do is to obey and to kill. This is a Marine Corps drill instructors job: to turn you into a soldier who is good at obeying, and good at killing.

Of course, every branch of the Army is like this to some degree. The problem is that the Marines are the most elite fighting force. They are sent in first, so they need to have the best instincts and the least reservation about killing. This is why Marine Corps drill instructors are more brutal and more vicious than most drill instructors. They have to be.


I have tried commenting on this, but I always get an HTTP error message.

[wukong]

Are you really so naive as to be appalled by ignorance on the internet?

[HairyEyeball]

...or intentional disinformation playing on the ignorance of others?

Given your youth, it's possible you've never run across this nonsense before, but it's lifted almost word-for-word from a long-gone (and unmourned) website that trashed Vietnam Veterans into the early 90s. Whomever is irresponsible also has you at a disadvantage: No matter how you respond, it's difficult to prove a negative, and while you may have some limited facts at your disposal, the writer has unlimited 'imagination'.

[SGM]

You can tell it is hogwash as the writer calles the Marine Corps a part of the Army!!

[txb&b]

...or intentional disinformation playing on the ignorance of others?

That crossed my mind even before I clicked on the links at the bottom of the page. One took me to a hotel in Dubai and another looks like what I might consider a religious cult.

[Woody]

There is no point arguing with these types .Just make the most outrageous statement you like and leave while they are stunned.

[Spider]

I wouldn't expect any less.

Our final exercise was an live fire ambush executed upon a bus full of Catholic children in Northern Ireland at 0845 hrs as it was drawing up outside a school. I'll never forget watching little Mary Monaghan's head explode, or little Joseph O'Reilly pissing blood on the floor and twitching like the proverbial spakker, or the death of the driver, who also happened to be a stereotypical Irish priest who even as he died was downing single malt and fondling alter boys... Oh yeah and the beds gave us nightmares (mine had a nasty spring).

Just like Woody said, outragerous...

I think this is one of those advertising sites that posts stuff it culls from elsewhere on the internet.

[Murray B]

Uh oh, take care here.

Look carefully at the text, “As a parent, you had best beware.” And, “elite branch of the Army such as the Marine Corps.”

It is obviously written by the parent of a Marine. Since they do not know that Marines are separate but closer to the Navy than the Army it must be a mother.

She is grieving too, so please stop this discourse.

[Javelin66]

Wow, you must be reading an entirely different page. There are a lot of factual errors for this to have been written by the mother of a Marine. The writer never claims to be a woman, much less a mother, much less the grieving mother of a fallen Marine.

Finally, even if this was written by the grieving mother of a fallen Marine, why should that stop us from discussing the fact that she is completely wrong?

[RogueNavy]

I managed to reply. Nothing rude, (however much I might have liked to be), but a simple declaration of the facts.

[Murray B]

Wow, you must be reading an entirely different page. There are a lot of factual errors for this to have been written by the mother of a Marine. The writer never claims to be a woman, much less a mother, much less the grieving mother of a fallen Marine.

Look, Javelin66, I quoted from the text for you. This is no propaganda piece nor is it written by any guy in the free world over 12 years old. It is also not written by anyone from a multigenerational military family that has suffered loss before.

It is completely emotional, irratational even, and the author is not that knowledgable about the military. Yet they were compelled to write it for some reason.

It could be the work of some latter day hippie but if it is some grieving mother then no good will come of it.

Of course you can post what you want, it's a free country.

[Javelin66]

Murray, I am confused by your assertion that this was written by the mother of a Marine. Can you point out to me the passage where the author states his/her gender, relationship to a Marine, or how he/she came to know so much about Marine Corps training methods?

How can you read the two phrases you cite ('as a parent you had best beware' and 'an elite branch of the Army such as the Marine Corps'), and reach the conclusion that the author is the parent of a fallen Marine?

I have no intention of responding to that posting, although I appreciate the reminder about my rights. I am only responding to your postings because you have reached conclusions that do not logically follow from the passage provided. The flaw in your argument is that you are responding emotionally to specific words and phrases to reach a conclusion that is not supported by fact.

[JohnP]

Uh oh, take care here.

Look carefully at the text, “As a parent, you had best beware.” And, “elite branch of the Army such as the Marine Corps.”

It is obviously written by the parent of a Marine. Since they do not know that Marines are separate but closer to the Navy than the Army it must be a mother.

She is grieving too, so please stop this discourse.

I don't see anything that can be considered obvious. You are making conjectures and suppositions based on what?

I hear the same propoganda spewing from the mouth of liberal idiots in this part of the country. We simply watch them and giggle every time they open their mouths.

Katherina:
"Asses are made to bear, and so are you"


Taming of the Shrew (II, i, 200)

[Skylark]

What a maroon. The emotion:reason ratio is off the charts; not much you can do but speak softly, state the facts if you much, and leave alone.

[Murray B]

What a maroon. The emotion:reason ratio is off the charts; not much you can do but speak softly, state the facts if you much, and leave alone.

I'm a maroon eh? Well, maybe your mother wears army boots.

The "emotion:reason" ratio is exactly as you say which is precisely my point. Who could possibly get this worked up over recruiting methods?

Analyze the text. It is a civilian because they think the Marines are part of the Army but they have seen Marines which look exactly like Army to us civilians. They say the training changes people. Of course it does or it would be of no use. There is no point in sending accountants into a war zone. How do they know that training changes people?

Now look at the possible outcomes. If I am right then you all do a wrong thing. If you are right then you are all just peeing into the wind anyway.

There is no real good reason to be discussing this article.

[JohnP]

I'm a maroon eh? Well, maybe your mother wears army boots.

The "emotion:reason" ratio is exactly as you say which is precisely my point. Who could possibly get this worked up over recruiting methods?

Analyze the text. It is a civilian because they think the Marines are part of the Army but they have seen Marines which look exactly like Army to us civilians. They say the training changes people. Of course it does or it would be of no use. There is no point in sending accountants into a war zone. How do they know that training changes people?

Now look at the possible outcomes. If I am right then you all do a wrong thing. If you are right then you are all just peeing into the wind anyway.

There is no real good reason to be discussing this article.

My mother wears army boots. Do you have a problem with that?

1. You have justified your thoughts on the writer possibly being a civilian.
2. I'm still waiting on the grieving mother.

[Murray B]

My mother wears army boots. Do you have a problem with that?

1. You have justified your thoughts on the writer possibly being a civilian.
2. I'm still waiting on the grieving mother.

Actually, JohnP, I never really understood that insult. I had some boots with a Vibram sole (from Vietnam era boots I think) and they were great boots. I'm just going to have to come up with some better responses. Is "son of a pig and a dog" a better insult? This is an unfair fight really since archival records prove beyond any doubt that miltary people know no swear words. Think you heard a cuss word? How do you know they weren't talking about Antony Fokker or something".

Anyway, that writer has a large personal gripe with the Marine Corps. This indicates some strong personal connection but is not direct since they mistake Marine for Army.

It is not strategic propaganda because it is so extreme as to be completely ineffective. No reasonable person will be swayed by it.

They are a parent because it is a warning to [other] parents. They are civilian for the many obvious errors that military folks would never make. Virtually all civilian fathers know the Marines are not Army so that only leaves a mother. A mother that is very angry at Marine Corps recruiters and trainers for some reason.

Even if I am wrong this discourse should stop because I could have been right.

In these uncertain times I find it very reassuring that the Marines instantly react to defend their country and the Corps. Some of these guys have been doing this for many decades. They are more "forever faithful" than "always faithful". Nevertheless, if I am right, there is no known defense from this sort of attack.

[wukong]

They are a parent because it is a warning to [other] parents. They are civilian for the many obvious errors that military folks would never make. Virtually all civilian fathers know the Marines are not Army so that only leaves a mother. A mother that is very angry at Marine Corps recruiters and trainers for some reason.

Murray I hate to disabuse your ignorance but you are on a site inhabited with members of the various US armed service who know our business as well as our families. From our own corporate memory we find as a group that the possibility of a mother of a Marine making so many errors about what her son is or does to be incredible remote. This article was written by a "who cares" ignoramus such a Code Pinker. This supposed mother would have no recent relationship with the son she sheds such crocodile tears over. Don't be surprised with hard responses, we are hard people.

[Des]

Agreed with most here... I don't for a second believe that this is the parent of a serving member.

More likely, this is a misguided, self-proclaimed anti-war activist attempting to play upon the natural fears of parents when it comes to the life paths of their children.

[HairyEyeball]

Sorry, Murray, I beg to differ: The writer appears to have absolutely no 'personal' gripe or connection with my Marine Corps - even parents who have all but disowned their kids for joining know more than this. If it were 'personal' it would be more 'pointed', less rambling.

You belie your own argument when you state no reasonable person would believe it - first, it is not 'directed' at reasonable people, it is intended for fellow droolers, and the percentage of 'reasonable' people is declining with the quality of the 'education' system. In an age of sound-bite 'news' where people believe what they see on the idiot box because it's on the idiot box - in one survey, over half of college seniors surveyed believed reruns of 'Mission Impossible' were factual - drivel like this is accepted as fact.

Civilian? Obviously. Mother? Possibly, but doubtful. It is not beyond the realm of reason that you may be right, but is is extremely doubtful - of course, you're free to believe what you choose.

[Murray B]

Sorry, Murray, I beg to differ:

Okay, HairyEyeball, I will say no more about this. I figure civilians are a step lower than "stateside" anyway, and I ought to know since I are one.

[HairyEyeball]

On the contrary - civilians are the reason our military exists. Everyone is entitled to an opinion - some of us have learned to work through our prejudices and initial reactions to consider all the facts and possibilities - and other perspectives. I suggested a perspective you apparently hadn't considered.