Misnomer (i.e. the MSM has it wrong)

[Billyd]

There are a number of posters here that believe that the Jr. Senator from Illinois is the President-Elect of the United States of America. However, this is incorrect. We have only endured the popular vote and have not completed the Constitutionaly mandated process for electing the President and the Vice-President of the United States.

While we have endured the first step, there is still a couple of steps to go. The first being the Electors of the several states convening and casting there votes, which by the way, do NOT have to be cast for the winner of the popular vote, except in 4 cases where the laws of the state require them to do so. Those votes are then signed, certified, and sealed then sent to the seat of government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. Then, in a joint session of Congress, those certificates will be opened, and provided that the person with the most votes has a majority of the Electors appointed (in our case 270) that person shall then become the President of the United States.

So, while we bemoan the results of the populous vote, the Jr. Senator for the state of Illinois, is still that. The Jr. Senator for the state of Illinois. While extrememly unlikely, The Sr. Senator for the state of Arizona, John S. McCain could still become President of the United States. In fact, for that matter HairyEyeball could become President of the United States.

So, until the votes of the Electoral College are opened by the President of the Senate on January 6, 2009, there is no President-Elect.

[SlightlyCatholic]

There are a number of posters here that believe that the Jr. Senator from Illinois is the President-Elect of the United States of America. However, this is incorrect.

If this is correct, then why is the media referring to Mr. Obama as the President-Elect? Is there a specific document in which these processes can be found?

[Billyd]

If this is correct, then why is the media referring to Mr. Obama as the President-Elect?

Proceed to the following site and tell me. Why does the MSM declare the winner prior to all the votes being counted?

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am12

[SlightlyCatholic]

While extrememly unlikely, The Sr. Senator for the state of Arizona, John S. McCain could still become President of the United States.

I'm guessing that the reason the media calls him that is because it would be a one in a million shot of the vote going for McCain...they're probably assuming the votes of the Electoral College. After all, why would the Electors go against the will of the people? Most are in Congress and probably wouldn't get re-elected for another term if their state voted Blue and they went Red. Then again, I tried to find the electors for my own state and couldn't, so I'm not sure I'd be able to find out a) who my electors are and b) how they voted.

[Billyd]

Most are in Congress

Actuall, members of Congress are precluded from serving as electors.

[03_SHOOTER]

There are a number of posters here that believe that the Jr. Senator from Illinois is the President-Elect of the United States of America. However, this is incorrect. We have only endured the popular vote and have not completed the Constitutionaly mandated process for electing the President and the Vice-President of the United States.
:blueberet:
Outstanding post Billy!

Isn't it amazing how little the sheeple know about our government, and how frightening it is that they're ALLOWED TO VOTE!:devil:

[PaulR]

Obama can be called President Elect because Senator McCain conceded and acknowledged Obama as the victor.

[03_SHOOTER]

Obama can be called President Elect because Senator McCain conceded and acknowledged Obama as the victor.

McCain may have CONceded the popular vote, but until the Electoral College ELECTS the President, he is NOT the "President Elect".

In case you've forgotten, We The People do not vote for POTUS, we vote to inform our Electors how we would like them to vote for POTUS, but We The People do not elect POTUS.

[Billyd]

It never ceases to amaze me that those that have sworn an oath or considering taking an oath to "support and defend" the document that lays out the framework for our government have failed to read and understand it. While the original post will be considered nit-picking and a matter of semantics by some, the Supreme Law of the land tells us EXACTLY how the President is elected and the mandates of that law have NOT yet been met.

[03_SHOOTER]

It never ceases to amaze me that those that have sworn an oath or considering taking an oath to "support and defend" the document that lays out the framework for our government have failed to read and understand it. While the original post will be considered nit-picking and a matter of semantics by some, the Supreme Law of the land tells us EXACTLY how the President is elected and the mandates of that law have NOT yet been met.

Why don't you tell us exactly how you feel? :D

Seriously though, what's REALLY amazing is that even after I took the time to create a dedicated thread, and post links to the Constitution, as well as most of the salient documents that led to it, I'd be very surprised to find that even a half a dozen members have bothered to REFERENCE THEM! I swear, if ignorance really is bliss, then there are one HELL of a lot of VERY happy people around here.

[PaulR]

It never ceases to amaze me that those that have sworn an oath or considering taking an oath to "support and defend" the document that lays out the framework for our government have failed to read and understand it.

There is absolutely no need for the condescending attitude. I find it insulting and a complete distraction to the topic at hand. I signed up to defend the Constitution as well as our way of life. No where in there did my oath tell me that I am to memorize and theorize on each nuance.

You are right... I have not read the Constitution of the US since at least 1990, when I graduated High School. Between the deployments, spending time with the family, and working on my articles, and keeping my body in condition, there are not enough hours in my day! It is nice that you do, but I do not at this time!

O3, thank you for posting the links. I just found them. I had no idea that you posted them until you said something.

[03_SHOOTER]

There is absolutely no need for the condescending attitude. I find it insulting and a complete distraction to the topic at hand. I signed up to defend the Constitution as well as our way of life. No where in there did my oath tell me that I am to memorize and theorize on each nuance.

You are right... I have not read the Constitution of the US since at least 1990, when I graduated High School. Between the deployments, spending time with the family, and working on my articles, and keeping my body in condition, there are not enough hours in my day! It is nice that you do, but I do not at this time!

Paul, I don't think that Billy was intentionally trying to insult, but I'll let him address that one. The problem that Billy, HairyEyeball, myself and others have is the fact that in our day, we were actually taught the Constitution, as well as a goodly majority of the other pertinent documents, and had to demonstrate a working knowledge of them before we were allowed to graduate! The fact that this is no longer the case is a constant point of amazement, and consternation to us, especially as it concerns service members.

How do the schools systems honestly expect the young people that they graduate to be able to become honest, decent, knowledgeable participants in their own government if they don't know what the Constitution says? They don't! They don't want you to know about the Constitution, because if you did, you'd realize that THEY are a very serious part of the problems we have in America, and one of the main reasons that an untested, inexperienced Marxist Socialist/Communist is soon to be presiding over the most powerful nation on the face of the Earth! I touched on this in the "Traitor" thread, and it quickly became abundantly clear that (and again, this is NOT an insult) neither you, nor most of the others that commented in that thread had really been taught the Constitution while in school, nor studied it on their own after leaving, therefore proving once again that the Amerikun Skuul Sistum has accomplished their goal of churning out citizens who are barely functional when it comes to civics.

O3, thank you for posting the links. I just found them. I had no idea that you posted them until you said something.

My pleasure. Now, consider this a "strong suggestion" from one who has been where you are, albeit a VERY long time ago, FIND the time, READ them all, and if you have any questions (and I'm sure you will) remember that there are more than a few of us here who will be MORE than happy to help you out in any way that we can, after all, that's what we're here for.

[Billyd]

There is absolutely no need for the condescending attitude. I find it insulting and a complete distraction to the topic at hand. I signed up to defend the Constitution as well as our way of life. No where in there did my oath tell me that I am to memorize and theorize on each nuance.

If you took insult at my comments, then I appologize as that was not my intent. As to being a distraction, does it not disturb you that those who are voting are not cognizant of the very document that gives them that ability? As to memorizing and thorizing on each nuance, you are absolutely correct, your oath does not require it.

To understand the Constitution of the United States, one needs to only read it. It is plainly written, in every day English. And one can peruse it at their leisure over the course of a couple of hours. Follow this link: http://wwrdheritage.org/ and click on the button at the bottm right and request a pocket sized copy of your very own. It even includes the Declaration of Independance.

As to hours in the day, we are all short in that department. As one who deployed on a regular basis, I also know there are plenty of down hours where one can write letters, clean weapons, shower, eat a meal, etc. Time with family is precious, and physical fitness is important, but at the same time, understanding how the government is supposed to work is the first step to correcting the deficiencies in its current implementation.

[PaulR]

Guys,

I apologize for the hair trigger this morning. Reading my comments, I realize that I was a complete a$$hole. As the time of my next assignment gets nearer I am getting more keyed because I will be be away from my family(habitation wise) for three years. A one year deployment is one thing. Three years with four weeks a year at home is an idea that will take some getting used to for me. In addition, my wife works as a CFO of a large company, so I am the primary "parent" in the house(laundry, cooking, cleaning, her karate classes and etc) literally 90% of the time. Time is truly something in short demand here. The fore mentioned coupled with what often turns out to be a 12-16 hour day at work is a bit much sometimes. I am not trying to excuse my actions, I am simply trying to illustrate where I am coming from.

I feel that I am doing what I can when I catch as much as I can from TV or other media sources. That is why I had displayed weakness by over reacting when I read Bill's post. Again, I am embarrassed by my response. I am sorry to take it out on the lot of you, for whom I feel the utmost respect.

I am glad that you all are doing what you do! In actuality, we need more people like you, to spread the word of reason to people who truly have little motivation to care, much less commit to action.

You all are right. As Americans, we have a lot of things(per our Constitution) that many people in the world would dream for. Much of it is simply taken fore granted. In the short 18 years since I graduated High School, I have noticed the decline in values and the exponential growth of complacency and ultra liberalism. To be quite honest, I have doubts on what lies ahead being what we are all used to. Since I am still active duty, there is little I can say beyond that. I think that we have reached a a new juncture in US history... a dark one.

I have yet to be on a deployment where I had much dead time. My last time overseas, I was actually working 36 out of 48 hours(Between the Force Protection Watches, seeing patients, and completing my Medical Admin, and preventive medicine duties) throughout the deployment entire one year deployment, with few exceptions(How I got the Navy/Marine Corps Achievement medal). No joke, I lived on Red Bull and Rock Star beverages then! Thus is the life of an Independent Duty Corpsman and one of the reasons I love this rate so much.

Regards
Paul

[03_SHOOTER]

Paul,

Please understand that we all understand, and DEEPLY appreciate the sacrifices you, and all of our serving members are making during this very troubling time. I cannot speak for anyone else (although I'm sure they feel the same way), so for myself allow me to be clear that nothing in any of my responses was meant in any way to belittle or demean you personally, but merely to educate you as to what I perceived as certain deficiencies in your education as it pertains to the Constitution.

It is entirely possible that part of the "disconnect" is that most of the "old hands" here are just that, "old hands", and come from a time in the military before it was so "PC", and when the order of the day was correction laced with many colorful expletives and metaphors, a not so gentle smack upside the back of the head, and a size 12 jump boot firmly planted on the fourth point of contact, and so we sometimes forget that such motivation is not appreciated as well today as it used to be.

As I said before, the resources are here for you to educate yourself as you have the time to utilize them, both in the "Resources" thread, as well as from us personally. Also, and to be perfectly honest, these discussions are the primary reason that I specifically requested that Grunt install a sub-forum dedicated to political issues. Over the past several years, HairyEyeball and I, along with other senior members, have noted and commented frequently about the abysmal job that the Amerikun Skuul Sistum has done teaching our young people about the Constitution, their Rights, and their duties as American citizens, and I wanted a place where these issues could be discussed, openly, honestly, and frankly, so that we could help to correct the egregious deficiencies created by our government schools.

One last point if I may be so bold. PLEASE take the time and go to the link that BillyD provided and order a pocket copy of the Constitution. Both HairyEyeball and I have one (though ours are much older, and much more worn, mostly from being pulled from our pockets and slammed down on a table, followed by the question "have you EVER read this?"), and we both keep ours with us, essentially 24/7/365. This way you'll have it, and will also be able to keep it with you, even on your deployments, and will be able to refer to it at your leisure.

[Billyd]

No worries, Paul. If you ever make port in my neighborhood, let me know, the first one's on me.

[PaulR]

Thanks guys! I have ordered the Pocketbook and look forward to looking through it. I agree that especially this day and age, it is essential learning/reading. I am sure that I will have tons of questions and comments!

BTW, I am not typically thin skinned. That is why I am so apologetic here...

I do not mind an a$$kicking if it is called for, so please do not hold back. I wont! :) As I stated earlier, I equally respect all of you here as well and appreciate all the sacrifices you have made for our great Nation.

If you all live on the Left Coast, it is quite likely I will pull into one of your ports within the next three years.

Regards
Paul

[03_SHOOTER]

:blueberet:

Good, now that all that "touchy, feely" crap is out of the way, and before I HURL (:sick:), let's get back to discussing some REAL politics! :D

[HairyEyeball]

Think that may have been just a tad bit excessive, 03 - buyin' a guy a beer is what we do, it's not like we're buying a stranger a french bottled water, and you've never been bashful about giving someone an @$$-whuppin' or a 'well done' when he needed it. Just because he's a Coastie doesn't mean he can't take it, or doesn't understand it. And Paul, if you'd asked, I'd have sent you one gratis - I've been giving them out with my other 'campaign literature'.

Back to the point: The lamestream, drive-by media anointed B. Hussein and the underwhelming majority of America bought into it without question: If it appears in tabloid print or on the idiot box, it 'must' be 'true'*. If they refer to him as the President-elect (or the messiah), the great unwashed accepts it, because they are the 'professionals'.

Leave us not, of course, excuse the 'other end of the spectrum': Like it or not, admit it or not, Rush, Hannity, Savage - they're entertainers, not philosophers with the 'ultimate truth' - whatever that is. The more 'controversial' they are - as with Rush 'appearing to back the Hildebeast' - the more listeners they draw, the more listeners they draw, the more they can charge per minute of commercial advertising. I've read Rush's books, heard his program - and met the man socially. Yes, he's a 'conservative', but not the rabid attack dog he 'plays' for the public. The media - across the spectrum, including 'news' programs - is entertainment, no more.

* - For the record, in a survey taken of college seniors in 1970, over 80% 'knew' that the 'Mission Implausible' program was based on actual CIA missions: If it's on TV, it 'must' be true.