Promotions

[C/ZOOMIE]

I'm making C/2Lt. in CAP this Thursday night if I pass my Mitchell test. When are your guys' next major mile stone promotions (they can be in JROTC, ROTC CAP or any Cadet Program, doesn't matter. I'm just curious)?
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[ang1sgt]

I understand the need to boast, but do we REALLY need to pad our post counts with Cadet Promotions? On the average some Cadets receive two to three promotions in a year? I could be wrong. This get's a little tedious I think. In my minds eye the Awards like the Mitchell and Spatz DESERVE recognition and you should be proud of those.

Could we possible consider just updating our Ranks in our signature blocks and letting it go at that?

Just a Thought...

[C/ZOOMIE]

Yes, Sir. I Just though It'd be a good idea to start a thread for people to talk about promotions. But, I agree with you and realize where you are coming from. I'l try to let the thread die. ;)

[Airbourne Infantry]

That reminds me: Do any of you have a Unit Manning Document (UMD) that you follow? We have our own UMD but we don't go by it. For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, a UMD is a list that determines what a certain Cadet's maximum rank can be for a certain position. For example: All of our Flight Commanders can be a Cadet Captain at the maximum, and yet we have a Flight Commander who's a Cadet Major. Maybe it's because we have less that the minimum of 100 Cadets and therefore need more Officers, but I'm not sure. Do any of you know what the procedure is for following the UMD?

[AirForceAlways]

I can't find anything in the regs, but as far as I know the UMD can be followed at SASI discretion. I'll get back to you with the regs, but the more I think about it, the more I think it's not actually in the regs. Last I checked, there was no uniform rank system that every unit had to follow, as far as UMDs go. I'll get back to you though, AI.

EDIT: AI, if you can get a hold of a Leadership I book, they have sample unit mannings in there on pages 13-14. They don't say anything about procedures for following it, and I know it's about 150+ cadets more than you have, but that might give you an idea. See what your SASI has to say about it, because like my unit, less than 100 cadets gets a bit hard with those UMDs.

[ang1sgt]

Unless your ASI and SI have had to deal and follow a REAL USAF UMD there will be problems with them NOT following one. If You as Cadets get used to fudging the numbers and slots on a UMD, you will take that with you later in your career and figure that it's OKAY to fudge some more. That is unfair to your troops across the board. Rank is too freely given in most Units and important jobs tend to get glossed over because most Cadets would rather be an Officer with the shiny brass than be a SNCO.

Don't get me started about Cadet First Sergeants... Not a Happy topic for me!

[TruBlu]

I'm in a unit with less than 100 cadets and know what its like to deal with a UMD. You shouldn't have an inflated officer corps, your unit should try to maintain a constant officer to enlisted ratio (I believe the AF is 1:4, but don't quote me on that). That means that if you have to lay off some officers and centralize positions, then do it because you don't want to end up with too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

Having that Flight CC as a c/Maj. could potentially cause problems within the corps. If the max rank is c/Capt. then its a c/Capt. Remember the AFJROTC has permanent ranks for each AS class, and at the discretion of the SASI, those could be used. So ranks are not set in stone, and what does a rank mean if its just going to be broken right?

[Billyd]

(I believe the AF is 1:4, but don't quote me on that).

And the winner is, TruBlu for the FIRST I believe reference! Cadets, you know better than this. Just because we have moved to a new forum does not mean that the old rules are left by the roadside. How about this for a novel idea, actually do some research and find out what that number is supposed to be, m'kay?

[Startingover]

I can't find anything in the regs, but as far as I know the UMD can be followed at SASI discretion. I'll get back to you with the regs, but the more I think about it, the more I think it's not actually in the regs. Last I checked, there was no uniform rank system that every unit had to follow, as far as UMDs go. I'll get back to you though, AI.

EDIT: AI, if you can get a hold of a Leadership I book, they have sample unit mannings in there on pages 13-14. They don't say anything about procedures for following it, and I know it's about 150+ cadets more than you have, but that might give you an idea. See what your SASI has to say about it, because like my unit, less than 100 cadets gets a bit hard with those UMDs.

Well thats just it, a sample. From what I can tell afterlooking, the AF doesn't put out standardized UMDs but at the same time, there are max pay grades that are set up through AFHQ that need to be followed, saw someone posted about having a FC as a Major, yeah, shouldn't ever happen.

Ill look around for abit but it is bleak that a standardized UMD is present.

Update 1: As of yet, no Standardized UMD is found, but I did find a refrence in a cadet manual that it was 100% up to the Commander's descression on how manning is distributed but at the same time, we dont quote Cadet Manuals by BillyD's teachings, so Ill keep looking but right now it does not look like there is a specific regulation for AFJROTC. Now the same cant be said for AFROTC or ADAF.

[PaulR]

I'm making C/2Lt. in CAP this Thursday night if I pass my Mitchell test.

So did you pass? I remember when I got my Michell Award in 1989. It was the proudest moment of my life, up to that point.

[PaulR]

Rank is too freely given in most Units and important jobs tend to get glossed over because most Cadets would rather be an Officer with the shiny brass than be a SNCO.

Don't get me started about Cadet First Sergeants... Not a Happy topic for me!


I think that a large reason for this is that the people they look up to as having power(Senior members) are all officers? I am glad that the Civil Air Patrol is allowing the use of NCO ranks for their senior members. I am considering rejoining as a Senior Member NCO.

[StormCrow]

As far as the UMD goes...there's really no need for it. As long as you have all of the NECESSARY positions covered you should be good. I mean, in my old you unit we had officers in positions that were not needed. For example, we all know that in an AFJROTC Wing, you need an Ops Group, a Support Group, and a Logistics Group. Well if your Logistics group functions just fine as a squadron why waste the rank and man power when most of those people can dedicate their time to other JROTC functions, like Kitty Hawk Honor Society, Drill Team, and Community Service functions. The best way to see how your unit can maximize its usefulness is to select a function that will be your primary mission objective (I say mission objective because the AFJROTC mission is to build better citizens for America, so the objectives should be designed to do that).

You can do this by saying...ok...we are going to be a community service oriented unit. This means we will need our Operations group to train for such things...Your ops group/squadron should be the unit that trains and executes the objective at hand unless it is something extracurricular like Drill team which falls under Support. Lets use a situation to clarify. Lets say your unit is asked to help out at a feed the homeless drive of sorts. This first thing you as the Wing Commander (or Groups Commander since some JROTC units are not big enough to be a wing) is to have a staff meeting, and ask your Wing Command Chief to estimate how many hands you may need for this based on the demand, and how many you can organize logistics to transport (remember the primary function of logistics is supply, but they are also resposible for transport). When your command chief gives you a number you turn to your vice wing commander and set the objectives that need to be done before the event (training, selecting the squadron or flights that will be deploying for the event, and budgeting for supplies and transport with the Logistics Officer), then you turn to you executive officer and set the time for the event to start, where it will be, who will be in charge, and anything that may happen during the event. You then get the department heads that will be involved together (operations group commander, Logistics Officer, etc.) and you assign responsibility.

The Unit Manning Document is a guide of what ranks should cover what positions, but it doesn't say that you can't leave positions out. Because in you might not need that position filled. Like I said pick what your units objective will be and execute it. You will find out very fast who you need and who you don't. Some objectives are listed below:

-Community Service
-Drill and Ceremonies(really good for units near bases that have lots of ceremonies needing color guards and things like that)
-Academics
-PT oriented
-Orienteering(fun for making a select few the elite of the unit and making the other cadets drive to get to that level boosting morale)
-Public Works(talking to middle school and elementary level kids about staying in school, and keeping off the streets)

To conclude about the UMD...its just another piece of paper to me..

Storm

[TruBlu]

As far as the UMD goes...there's really no need for it. As long as you have all of the NECESSARY positions covered you should be good. I mean, in my old you unit we had officers in positions that were not needed. For example, we all know that in an AFJROTC Wing, you need an Ops Group, a Support Group, and a Logistics Group. Well if your Logistics group functions just fine as a squadron why waste the rank and man power when most of those people can dedicate their time to other JROTC functions, like Kitty Hawk Honor Society, Drill Team, and Community Service functions. The best way to see how your unit can maximize its usefulness is to select a function that will be your primary mission objective (I say mission objective because the AFJROTC mission is to build better citizens for America, so the objectives should be designed to do that).

You can do this by saying...ok...we are going to be a community service oriented unit. This means we will need our Operations group to train for such things...Your ops group/squadron should be the unit that trains and executes the objective at hand unless it is something extracurricular like Drill team which falls under Support. Lets use a situation to clarify. Lets say your unit is asked to help out at a feed the homeless drive of sorts. This first thing you as the Wing Commander (or Groups Commander since some JROTC units are not big enough to be a wing) is to have a staff meeting, and ask your Wing Command Chief to estimate how many hands you may need for this based on the demand, and how many you can organize logistics to transport (remember the primary function of logistics is supply, but they are also resposible for transport). When your command chief gives you a number you turn to your vice wing commander and set the objectives that need to be done before the event (training, selecting the squadron or flights that will be deploying for the event, and budgeting for supplies and transport with the Logistics Officer), then you turn to you executive officer and set the time for the event to start, where it will be, who will be in charge, and anything that may happen during the event. You then get the department heads that will be involved together (operations group commander, Logistics Officer, etc.) and you assign responsibility.

The Unit Manning Document is a guide of what ranks should cover what positions, but it doesn't say that you can't leave positions out. Because in you might not need that position filled. Like I said pick what your units objective will be and execute it. You will find out very fast who you need and who you don't. Some objectives are listed below:

-Community Service
-Drill and Ceremonies(really good for units near bases that have lots of ceremonies needing color guards and things like that)
-Academics
-PT oriented
-Orienteering(fun for making a select few the elite of the unit and making the other cadets drive to get to that level boosting morale)
-Public Works(talking to middle school and elementary level kids about staying in school, and keeping off the streets)

To conclude about the UMD...its just another piece of paper to me..

Storm

I disagree with the UMD being just another piece of paper. The UMD is a reference for all cadets, and a guide for the commanders. It displays all of the corps' available positions, their function, maximum grade, and number authorized. The UMD becomes especially important while assigning cadets to positions and reviewing your unit's organizational structure. I believe that the organizational structure of any unit is it's backbone, and if it breaks, so does the unit. The UMD is a part of that backbone (maybe the cushion in between the joints if I may) and should not be ignored.

[StormCrow]

Your right it should not be ignored. However beyond showing what positions a unit should have it has not further value. I maintain my position that a units position structure should be flexible to their function.

Storm

[C.A.P. Flight Officer]

My unit is inn a reconstruction phase, does anyone have a UMD that I can take a look at? :mp:

[TruBlu]

For your viewing pleasure, I attached a screen shot of one.

[StormCrow]

C/Colonel how many effectives do you have in your unit.

Effectives=Cadets that are listed on the Manifest.

Storm

[C.A.P. Flight Officer]

C/Colonel how many effectives do you have in your unit.

Effectives=Cadets that are listed on the Manifest.

Storm

My unit has about 120 cadets. We are called a group with 2 squadrons, 6 flights........................................... .......... :mp:

[StormCrow]

PM me with what you have so far that way I can give you advise on how the unit should look. Have you picked out your units main function for the year as I advised?

Storm

[rightstuffpilot]

As a heads up, CAPR 52-16 specifies that cadets aught promote atleast twice a year. I would hope are cadets on average are promoting more than twice a year. Congrats on being a Mitchell cadet. Look at it as a "License to Learn" and continue to progress and work towards the Spaatz Award. (Its worth it, trust me)

[Cadet Tony]

I have my big chance to get to c/MSgt. in 3 weeks! :D

[StormCrow]

Cadet,

I told you this in PM, and you have disregarded. So I will keep my promise. One lined posts should be so as to add to the conversation not just say that you are becoming a C/Master Sergeant soon. Please go back over this post and add to the conversation.

Also, you are not permitted to use your real name on this forum. PM Grunt for a name change, please.

Storm

[ClearShot89]

E and O's are pay scales, not grades or ranks. You may try again using the proper terminology.

[Drill for life]

Here is something you guys should hearIn my unit Comapny Commanders are suppposed to be C/1LT. but since this year is our big inspection Company Commanders will make C/CPT. Isn't that cool. What rank are Comapny Commanders in your unit?

[AFCougar]

Just wondering:
How do you determine Promotions in your unit?
How many times can you be promoted in one year at your unit?

[TruBlu]

Just wondering:
How do you determine Promotions in your unit?
How many times can you be promoted in one year at your unit?

There is an entire thread devoted to that subject, use the search feature to find it.

[AFCougar]

There is an entire thread devoted to that subject, use the search feature to find it.

Well, seeing as how I thought that the name of the thread was Promotions, if I'm not mistaken, you should be able to talk about it here... >_>

[Billyd]

And Closed.

While we all understand the desire to brag about our achievements, there is no need for this thread to continue. As Top pointed out we really don't need a thread about being promoted.