Man wearing McCain shirt arrested for...standing on the street!

[03_SHOOTER]

Normally I won't make a post without commenting, but this one has left me speechless.

94N1TkuLWss

[TheLegalShark]

You cannot really tell the whole situation from this clip. It merely shows him being told to leave, and staying in the area prior to being arrested. I am not going to speculate on what may have lead to this, but I cannot say the sole reason for the arrest was being a McCain supporter.

[Woody]

Cops asked him to leave he didn't .Situation like that all you can do is remove him before some one gets hurt.Probably would have turned up at a Mcain rally wearing an obama shirt.
Its not a crime to be an idiot but it should be.

[03_SHOOTER]

Cops asked him to leave he didn't.

And on exactly what legal authority did they ask him to leave? What laws was he violating by being on the streets that all of the other people on the street were not violating?

Situation like that all you can do is remove him before some one gets hurt.

Well, unfortunately in America, the Police are only allowed to investigate a crime once it has been committed, they are not allowed to act precipitously to act to prevent people from getting hurt, and SCOTUS has ruled on that repeatedly, which means that the Police acted outside their authority.

Probably would have turned up at a Mcain rally wearing an obama shirt.

I've seen a few at the rallies around here, and since it was in a public place, there was nothing that the Police could do even if someone had asked them to do so, and nobody did because we believe in the BILL OF RIGHTS.

Its not a crime to be an idiot but it should be.

And who would you have make the determination as to whom the idiot was?

[03_SHOOTER]

You cannot really tell the whole situation from this clip. It merely shows him being told to leave, and staying in the area prior to being arrested. I am not going to speculate on what may have lead to this, but I cannot say the sole reason for the arrest was being a McCain supporter.

Well youngun', as a former LEO, I can attest to the fact that the Police acted without proper legal authority. You lay claim to being some "LegalShark", so I would suggest that you actually crack some law books, because the only thing that happened here was the Police laid themselves wide open to suit for several violations of his CIVIL RIGHTS.

[PaulR]

There is more to this video than what is being shown... This was obviously set up for the camera. Most likely, this guy went into the crowd of Obama supporters and started some crap. The police responded then the cameras came on line.

I am not a Democrat and will never vote that way, but I do not agree with the image this video painted.

I have seen this type of thing done by the Libs on many occasion.

[03_SHOOTER]

McCain T-shirt gets man cuffed, stuffed
'Don't tell him no more, lock him up,' police say

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: November 08, 2008
12:40 am Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2008 WorldNetDaily (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80405)

A man wearing a McCain-Palin T-shirt during a Philadelphia celebration on election night was arrested, cuffed and stuffed into a police cruiser, and supporters said it was for no more than wearing the endorsement of the GOP nominees for president and vice-president.

Although the man protested that he didn't want to cause any trouble, officers manhandled and arrested him, the video posted on YouTube shows.

Philadelphia Police Sgt. Ray Evers told WND the man, whose name was not released, was arrested for disorderly conduct and public drunkenness.

"He was causing large crowds to form around him," Evers said, adding that he also "was not listening to police commands."

"He was asked several times to leave the area," the sergeant said. "He refused several commands from police to leave the area."

The tape opens explaining that the man was wearing a McCain T-shirt at a street celebration in honor of president-elect Barack Obama's election victory.

The audio says police told the man to leave the area and he declined. At that point, the video picks up.

The video depicts officers holding the man's chest as he says, "I'm not trying to cause any trouble."

The police then shove the man as the Obama crowd jeers.

"You know what? Don't tell him no more. Don't tell him no more. Just lock him up," an officer states.

While the man is standing off to the side of the celebration, two officers grab him and shake him up, twist his arm behind his back and cuff him.

The crowd circles the man, chanting, "Oh-Bah-Mah! Oh-Bah-Mah!"

"This man was arrested for going into a crowd of Obama supporters post-election wearing a John McCain-Sarah Palin T-shirt," the audio explains. "The officers asked him to leave, he refused … then he was assaulted by officers. Now he's being put into a patrol car.

"This is what we can expect, no freedom of speech," the narrator comments.

So, let's see, it's ELECTION NIGHT, he's wearing a McCain/Palin T-Shirt (no big surprise there), less than a block from his car, and he get's jacked up for .....WHAT? Disorderly conduct? Public drunkencess? From what I saw, he was not "disorderly", and he didn't appear to be "drunk", so again, as an experienced former LEO, I'm calling BULLSH*T on the Police actions. The crowd however WAS "disorderly", and the Police were "drunk" with 'power', but then of course the Philly PD aren't going to even try to arrest an Obama supporter unless they've got every one of their SWAT teams with them, so bust the white guy.

And for the record, exactly how was he "causing large crowds to form around him"? Was he giving out free tickets to L.L. Cool J and Snoop Doggy Doo concerts? And exactly how did they expect him to "leave the area" when the cops were pushing him AWAY from his vehicle? Was he supposed to abandon it there so that it could be towed away and impounded? Also, he did NOT "refuse to leave", and in fact he pointed out to the Police exactly where his vehicle was, so if they REALLY wanted him to leave, all the had to do was escourt him TO his vehicle. No, this was a load of crap from start to finish, and the Philly PD are the ones that screwed the pooch.

[devin0116]

Do you have any informationon wether he was charged??

[03_SHOOTER]

Do you have any informationon wether he was charged??

No. I've e-mailed the writer, but have not received a reply yet.

[TheLegalShark]

Well youngun', as a former LEO, I can attest to the fact that the Police acted without proper legal authority. You lay claim to being some "LegalShark", so I would suggest that you actually crack some law books, because the only thing that happened here was the Police laid themselves wide open to suit for several violations of his CIVIL RIGHTS.

Whether they acted with proper authority is for a court of law to determine. As for law books, I crack them open everyday because that's part of going to law school. His rights may have been violated, but there is also a question of what happened before the police arrived. As I said I would want to know the full story before passing judgment.

[Billyd]

As I said I would want to know the full story before passing judgment.

And you expect to get that how? You can ask 15 different people that were there, including the LEO's and the shirt guy, and you will get 15 different stories. While I was not a LEO, I did have to conduct investigations to determine what had transpired. And in the course of conducting interviews, you piece together the most likely order or events.

[TheLegalShark]

And you expect to get that how? You can ask 15 different people that were there, including the LEO's and the shirt guy, and you will get 15 different stories. While I was not a LEO, I did have to conduct investigations to determine what had transpired. And in the course of conducting interviews, you piece together the most likely order or events.

If there are criminal charges filed and varying testimony it is up to a jury to decide what happened. It's not a perfect system but it's what we have. If there is evidence that shows that he was arrested for no reason other than pissing off a cop he should not have been arrested and some officers should be out of a job. If he had been stirring up trouble before the police arrived and then refused to leave he should be charged with disorderly conduct.

[03_SHOOTER]

Whether they acted with proper authority is for a court of law to determine. As for law books, I crack them open everyday because that's part of going to law school. His rights may have been violated, but there is also a question of what happened before the police arrived. As I said I would want to know the full story before passing judgment.

Oh goody, you're just NOW cracking the law books. I did that over 25 YEARS ago, and trust me, they DID violate his Civil Rights, and no, it does not take a Court of Law to determine that, it takes a Court of Law to determine what, if any repercussion are the result of a violation of the law. The only thing this guy is "guilty" of (besides being in the wrong place at the wrong time) is Walking While Republican. If I had made that arrest, I'd have been immediately relieved of duty for cause, and probably Court Martialed for my trouble.

If you are going to be an Attorney, then there's something you need to bear in mind; your ONLY fealty is to the Constitution, and it is your duty to oppose ANY law that violates the Constitution, period.

[03_SHOOTER]

If there are criminal charges filed and varying testimony it is up to a jury to decide what happened. It's not a perfect system but it's what we have. If there is evidence that shows that he was arrested for no reason other than pissing off a cop he should not have been arrested and some officers should be out of a job. If he had been stirring up trouble before the police arrived and then refused to leave he should be charged with disorderly conduct.

And you're still missing the entire point, so let's get into a little bit of Con Law 101. Show me where in the Constitution it gives any LEO the Right to tell anyone that they may not be on any city street any time they wish to be there. If you need to look it up, you'll find a link to the Constitution (Cornell University Law School) in our "Resources" thread located at the top of this Forum.

The First Amendment very clearly enumerates "the right of the people peaceably to assemble", and since there is no indication anywhere that the individual in question was anything but peaceable, any infringement on his Right to be on the street is a clear violation of his First Amendment Rights. Then there's that whole 4th Amendment thing about "unreasonable searches and SEIZURES" (which includes ones own person).

[PaulR]

I agree with you, but is there a chance the he was there creating a nuisance before the cameras came on? We DONT know. There is not enough here to formulate an objective decision either way.

It is evident that only the last 10% of the entire scenario was captured on film. IF he were simply walking down the street and the events transpired around him, that is one thing. If he were there with the intent on being a smart ass in order to make a video(which appears to be the most likely case), he was breaking the law by "creating a public nuisance". By the looks of the video, it seems as if the police were trying to get him to move on(providing a warning) but he wanted to play games.

Again, based upon what was shown in this particular video, anything could have happened and it is quite impossible to make an objective decision.

[Ben Shotalot]

I'm waiting for the book burning parties to start....

:recon:

[03_SHOOTER]

I'm waiting for the book burning parties to start....

:recon:

If it weren't so sad, that would almost be funny. :mad:

[03_SHOOTER]

I agree with you, but is there a chance the he was there creating a nuisance before the cameras came on? We DONT know. There is not enough here to formulate an objective decision either way.

It is evident that only the last 10% of the entire scenario was captured on film. IF he were simply walking down the street and the events transpired around him, that is one thing. If he were there with the intent on being a smart ass in order to make a video(which appears to be the most likely case), he was breaking the law by "creating a public nuisance". By the looks of the video, it seems as if the police were trying to get him to move on(providing a warning) but he wanted to play games.

Again, based upon what was shown in this particular video, anything could have happened and it is quite impossible to make an objective decision.


OK, I want to be very careful here so as not to appear to be insulting, but what ever happened to the notion of "innocent until PROVEN guilty"? What happened to the notion of "freedom of assembly"? What happened to the notion of "freedom of speech"? Everyone here seems so ready and willing to believe that the Police acted appropriately, and to throw him under the bus, and I would like for you to explain to me WHY?

Unless or until it can be shown that his actions in any way infringed on the Rights of anyone else, then he was well within his Constitutional Rights to be there, and the Police had NO right to tell him to leave, much less arrest him.

[Woody]

Because he was wearing that shirt going to a celebration for the other guy
and someone was filming it .Cops may have got it wrong ,but,I think they were set up for this one.

[PaulR]

OK, I want to be very careful here so as not to appear to be insulting, but what ever happened to the notion of "innocent until PROVEN guilty"? What happened to the notion of "freedom of assembly"? What happened to the notion of "freedom of speech"? Everyone here seems so ready and willing to believe that the Police acted appropriately, and to throw him under the bus, and I would like for you to explain to me WHY?

Unless or until it can be shown that his actions in any way infringed on the Rights of anyone else, then he was well within his Constitutional Rights to be there, and the Police had NO right to tell him to leave, much less arrest him.


But I never said that he was not innocent. I agree with your points. All I said is that the video does not paint a complete picture of what happened in that particular situation. I am just being objective here. If he is innocent, he does have grounds for one hell of a lawsuit!

[03_SHOOTER]

Because he was wearing that shirt going to a celebration for the other guy
and someone was filming it .Cops may have got it wrong ,but,I think they were set up for this one.

Or perhaps he and some friends were at someone else's home watching the election, and after it was called, they simply went outside to get in their cars and GO HOME, and were THEN accosted by an unruly MOB of Obama supporters. As for someone filming it, my CELL PHONE has video capability, doesn't yours?

All I can say is that it's bloody obvious that you're NOT an American, and have NO concept of our Constitution, which is exactly why we broke away from y'all.

[HairyEyeball]

But I never said that he was not innocent. I agree with your points. All I said is that the video does not paint a complete picture of what happened in that particular situation. I am just being objective here. If he is innocent, he does have grounds for one hell of a lawsuit!

Whether he has 'grounds' for a lawsuit is moot: Depending on whose court he files in, it may well be thrown out by a biased judge. Remember that most judges are appointed not necessarily on their legal qualifications, but primarily on their fealty to their party's 'philosophy' - and may well hold nothing more than contempt for the laws they are appointed to rule on. One would be hard-pressed to find a more egregious example than the PDRNY's Jack Weinstein and 'Lawful Commerce in Arms'.

The only 'fact in evidence' here is that there is no context, and no 'judgment' can be rationally rendered on what is presented.

Not (once again) to belabor the obvious, but one might question the motives of whomever filmed, edited and posted the clip: If the arrest (not necessarily the manner in which it was carried out) was 'justified', why is such 'justification' not presented. If the act was arbitrary and capricious, why is the lack of justifying behavior omitted?

Until someone steps up with the whole story, not one single judgmet passed here is worth the bandwidth it took to post: Everything is 'opinion' based on an unaccredited clip which may or may not have been staged and is certainly - and intentionally - incomplete.

[03_SHOOTER]

But I never said that he was not innocent. I agree with your points. All I said is that the video does not paint a complete picture of what happened in that particular situation. I am just being objective here. If he is innocent, he does have grounds for one hell of a lawsuit!

Fair enough. As I said before, situations like this are sticky to begin with because of the Constitution, and must be handled carefully. The fact that the Police even offered him the opportunity to leave tells me that he had not violated any laws (other than Walking While Republican), so their taking him into custody was purely a reaction to the crowd, which is a direct violation of his Civil Right. If they were going to let him leave, what they SHOULD have done is escorted him to his vehicle and allowed him to go on his way.

[Drill for life]

That is Bull Crap. The same thing happened to me at school. I wore a Mccain/Palin shirt a day before the election and they told me to take it off, and being the model citizen/Cadet/Poolee I am I did it and they didn't ask anybody who wore a obama/Biden shirt to take theres off. I was and still am mad when I ahve done many things for my school and I can't even support my canidate. Psh that is real Prejudice.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Drill, did they give you a reason as to why they wanted you to take it off? Was it inflammatory or did it have inappropriate language?

[Drill for life]

Drill, did they give you a reason as to why they wanted you to take it off? Was it inflammatory or did it have inappropriate language?

No I guess I should. My school is very Liberal and me and every other member of our school's Young Republican club have worn McCain/Palin shirts to our school and never got any flack about it before so I guess It was pre-election jitters. To answer your other question no it did not say anything obscene it was a White T-shirt with McCain/Palin in Red with the US flag on the back that said"I Support McCain" I had it customed made by a friend who makes T-shirts,Trohies,Medals,plaques and Etc. Our school Security officer(Retired ARmy Infantry officer Major) told me to take it off because it was upsettign other kids and teachers. I just took it off and put on my Units T-shirt on in it's place.

[FeelinFroggy]

In my opinion, that is an instance when you should have called your parent/guardian and told them you weren't going to take it off. You could've also told the administration that the Obama shirts were upsetting you(even if they weren't), and that the Obama supporters should also have to remove their shirts.

Anyway, schools should allow kids to be able to support whoever they want and allow both sides to wear shirts.

[SlightlyCatholic]

What I don't understand is why a tee-shirt falls under the jurisdiction of the security officer. Why is that a security matter?

[flyBoy2010]

Maybe he thought a riot would start...

Honestly, the whole thing is ridiculous. I would have done what Froggy said and called your parents. The Constitution provided for freedoms of speech and expression for a reason and that security guard had no right to take that away.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

I finally just saw this video (I had to get the appropriate plug ins) and I am... astonished. He wasn't doing ANYTHING wrong, other than just wearing a McCain/Palin shirt, then all of these Obama supporters come out of nowhere, and start booing him. He was just supporting his candidate in the city that he lives in, and they take him away? This is complete and utter bulls**t.

Now, from an objective standpoint, this wasn't hinted in the tone and body language of the officers, but what if they were trying to get him to leave the area to potentially save his life? I mean, one guy in the middle of all those people? He most certainly would've ended up dead that minute if it wasn't for the officers. Maybe.

[PaulR]

I finally just saw this video (I had to get the appropriate plug ins) and I am... astonished. He wasn't doing ANYTHING wrong, other than just wearing a McCain/Palin shirt, then all of these Obama supporters come out of nowhere, and start booing him. He was just supporting his candidate in the city that he lives in, and they take him away? This is complete and utter bullshit.

Now, from an objective standpoint, this wasn't hinted in the tone and body language of the officers, but what if they were trying to get him to leave the area to potentially save his life? I mean, one guy in the middle of all those people? He most certainly would've ended up dead that minute if it wasn't for the officers. Maybe.

The fact is that you only saw a part of the story in the video. Unless more footage or information comes to light, there is not enough present in this video to make a credible decision either way.

[Drill for life]

You know what it has come and gone but you know what is still makes me mad. Hey at work today(I work at Kroger)I was helping this lady take her grociries out to her car and this guy was putting Obama/Martin stickers on the bumpers of people's cars. I went inside and told my Manager and he came out but the guy had drove away.

[TruBlu]

You know what it has come and gone but you know what is still makes me mad. Hey at work today(I work at Kroger)I was helping this lady take her grociries out to her car and this guy was putting Obama/Martin stickers on the bumpers of people's cars. I went inside and told my Manager and he came out but the guy had drove away.

That's just plain rude, and I'm sure illegal on grounds of defacing another person's property. It's people like that that give political parties bad names (along with countless other things, but you know what I'm saying...).

[HairyEyeball]

It's not 'rude', it's vandalism and/or criminal mischief, both misdemeanors punishable by fine and imprisonment.

[PaulR]

It's not 'rude', it's vandalism and/or criminal mischief, both misdemeanors punishable by fine and imprisonment.

Not to mention worthy of a good arse whipping if caught in the act!:D