Trivia Time!

[03_SHOOTER]

I beg to differ with my esteemed colleague from the Great State of Arizona. The Anti-Federalists did win, and that victory stood for more than 140 years until the institooshuns of publik indoktrunashun were able to produce sufficient generations of mindless minions that were completely ignorant of their Rights, and therefore unaware that their elected misrepresentatives were stealing their Rights.

I suppose this falls into the same category as our previous discussions about whether or not we won in Vietnam.

[HairyEyeball]

...that victory stood for more than 140 years until... (emphasis added).

I maintain that my esteemed colleague from the great State of North Carolina has proven my point: The Antifederalists won a battle, the Federalists are (currently) winning the war.

And there was, as I recall, no disagreement on whether we won in Vietnam.

[Drill for life]

Hairyeyeball would you mind starting a serious of questions directed to us Wannabe Marines so we can get some practice for Pool functions and to help get prepared for Recruit Training?

[HairyEyeball]

Suppose we could start with Roy Cunningham: Who was he, what distinguishes him, what distinguishes him in Marine Corps annals, and what 'physical evidence' of the regard in which he was held was established?

[03_SHOOTER]

.

I maintain that my esteemed colleague from the great State of North Carolina has proven my point: The Antifederalists won a battle, the Federalists are (currently) winning the war.

And there was, as I recall, no disagreement on whether we won in Vietnam.

While you and I are of an accord concerning the War in Vietnam, according to the revisionist historians (and a now inactive member imbiber of copious amounts of umbrella adorned alcoholic beverages) there is a concensus among some that we failed in that endeavor. In my mind, the same (hopefully) applies here. While the Federalists may be winning the current Battle, as long as men such as yourself, Billyd, JohnP and myself continue to fight the good fight, the War is far from over, and after all, did we not in fact lose a few Battles in WWII before being able to claim an overwhelming victory?

[HairyEyeball]

Ah, but was it an 'overwhelming victory'? Are the 'winners' building Oldsmobiles in Osaka or are the 'losers' building Toyotas in Toledo? Who was 'disciplined' when the 'losers' stole submarine propellor technology from the 'winners' and sold them to the then-current enemy?

Winning a war is a damn sight better than losing one, of course, but the corollary, winning the peace, seems to be a skill we have yet to master.

[JohnP]

Suppose we could start with Roy Cunningham: Who was he, what distinguishes him, what distinguishes him in Marine Corps annals, and what 'physical evidence' of the regard in which he was held was established?

Okay HE, it’s been a few days now. I’ve researched over 500 Roy Cunningham’s in Wiki, MSN Search, and Google. I’ve found a writer, a voice over artist, a physical fitness guru and numerous others.

Can you drop a large hint? :dontgetit:

[HairyEyeball]

Didn't want to make it too easy. Try "Alfred Austell (Roy) Cunningham".

[JohnP]

Didn't want to make it too easy. Try "Alfred Austell (Roy) Cunningham".


Okay, I got him. Since I asked for the hint, I will give the cadets, more especially, the Marine Corps Cadets, 1st opportunity to laude his praises.

I stand humble and admonished.

[HairyEyeball]

Now you know why I used his nickname - didn't want to give it away, and I'm growing just the slightest bit perturbed with the lack of industry on the part of the youngsters - especially 'my' Marines. It's beginning to feel like a session of 'six count bends and thrusts until I sweat'...

[JohnP]

Didn't want to make it too easy. Try "Alfred Austell (Roy) Cunningham".

Okay, my Brother, I've given them a week. I write this for your perusal and approval:

Alfred Austell Cunningham, the Marine Corps' first aviator, was born 8 March 1882 in Atlanta, Georgia. He accepted a commission as second lieutenant in the Marine Corps in January 1909 when he was 27 years old. The year before Cunningham entered the Marine Corps, the United States Navy had first taken official notice of the aeroplane as a possible weapon for use in the Fleet when in 1908, Orville Wright demonstrated his plane to Government officials and Naval officers at Fort Myer, Virginia.
On 16 May 1912, Cunningham was detached from duty at the Navy Yard, Philadelphia, and ordered to the aviation camp the Navy had set up at Annapolis, to learn to fly. He reported 22 May 1912 which is recognized as the birthday of Marine Corps aviation. Cunningham soloed on 20 August 1912. (Yes, 4 days later.) Thus the Marine Corps had its first pilot, the Navy its fifth, as John Rodgers, John H. Towers and Victor Herbster had qualified after Lieutenant Theodore G. Ellyson, the first Navy officer to be designated a naval aviator.
For the next fifteen months, Cunningham's assignments involved flying. From the camp at Annapolis, he was ordered to Hammondsport, New York, to consult with Glenn Curtiss about the Curtiss hydroplane; a few weeks later he conferred with the Burgess Company and Mr. Curtiss concerning a new Navy aeroplane. When he was not involved in such conference, he was at the aviation camp at Annapolis experimenting on the crude planes the Navy then had, and taking weekly training flights across Chesapeake Bay to Kent Island seven miles away, a thrilling and daring flight in those early days and the reward for the hard work of the week.
On 11 August 1913, Lt Cunningham requested detachment from duty involving flying. The request was approved by Secretary of the Navy Daniels and a few weeks later he was detached from the camp at Annapolis and ordered to the Navy Yard at Washington where he relieved Captain Russell H. Davis, USMC, as Assistant Quartermaster.
In November 1913, he served on a Board, of which Captain Chambers was the senior member, to convene at the Navy Department for the purpose of drawing up a comprehensive plan for the organization of a naval aeronautical service. It was upon the recommendation of that board that the Naval Aeronautical Station at Pensacola was established in 1914. The following February, he was authorized to assist Naval Constructor Holden C. Richardson, USN, in experimental flying of the D-2, then undergoing alterations at the Navy Yard, Washington, D.C.
On 27 April 1915, Cunningham was not only redesignated a naval aviator but was ordered to duty at the Naval Aeronautical Station at Pensacola which had been established only a year before.
While Cunningham was still attending the Signal Corps Aviation School, Admiral Helm recommended him as "particularly well qualified to assist as an expert aviator to help in the selection of aviation bases on the Pacific Coast"; so he was detailed to the Commission on Navy Yards and Naval Stations. He received a letter of commendation from the Major General Commandant, General John A. Lejeune, for his outstanding and valuable service while with the Commission.
By now, Europe had been at war for more than two years and now-Captain Cunningham recognized that naval aviation should have an important role in the war then ravaging Europe. His tireless efforts and sincere convictions about naval aviation were rewarded on the establishment of an Aeronautic Advance Base Unit at Philadelphia. In February 1917, he was detailed to the Philadelphia Navy Yard to establish, equip and command an Aviation Company for a Marine Corps Advance Base Force. In addition to that important assignment, he was made a member of the Army and Navy Board for the selection of sites for air stations in seven Naval Districts and was also detailed to choose sites for air stations on the East and Gulf Coasts. Captain Cunningham was commended for his "zeal and attention to duty" while thus assigned.
As aviation mushroomed under wartime stimulation, Captain Cunningham's responsibilities and duties increased. He had to interview applicants for aviation duty, he was given command of the First Aviation Squadron of the Marine Corps and, in addition, ordered to Paris to obtain information concerning French and British aviation activities, all in the course of three months! He sailed from New York on 3 November 1917 and was back in the States by 15 January 1918, but he had investigated virtually every aviation activity at the front. In pursuit, photographic, and bombing planes, he had participated in flights over the German lines and not only did he survey French aviation bases but also studied British air schools at Eastchurch and Huthe. He had worked assiduously at home and in Europe to "sell" aviation. He presented a plan to the Secretary of the Navy and the General Board for an aircraft offensive against submarines off the Belgian Coast and the submarine bases at Zeebrugge, Burges and Ostend.
The Northern Bombing Group was Captain Cunningham's idea and he not only secured the authority to organize and equip the four squadrons that comprised its day wing, but, with a modicum of pilots and enlisted men, and no available flying field, he not only secured a field but erected the necessary buildings, obtained planes and equipment, recruited and organized the entire project with the help of Lieutenants Bernard L. Smith, William M. McIlvain, Francis T. Evans and Roy S. Geiger, who were the only Marine officers besides Captain Cunningham who had been designated naval aviators when the United States entered World War I.
The plan approved, four Marine Corps squadrons were authorized, each to consist of eighteen landplanes and were to proceed to France when formed and equipped. In five months, the squadrons and headquarters detachment were organized, trained and equipped at the old Curtiss Flying Field at Miami, Florida, and Captain Cunningham was ordered to command the 1st Marine Aviation Force.
On 12 July 1918, 72 landplanes, 176 officers and 1030 enlisted men sailed on the USS de Kalb from New York and arrived at Brest 30 July 1918. After its arrival in France, it was designated the Northern Bombing Group and in the three months it was stationed in Europe, the Group operated at Oye, Le Fresne, St. Pol in France, and at Hoondschoote, Ghietelles, Varsennaire and Knesselaere, Belgium. Despite shortages in planes, spares and tools, it performed forty-three raids with the British and French as well as fourteen independent raids and shot down eight enemy aircraft. The Group also dropped 52,000 pounds of bombs and supplied 2600 pounds of food in five food-dropping missions in which it participated. Two years later, Captain Cunningham received the Navy Cross for his services with the Northern Bombing Group.
When he returned to the States, he was ordered to Headquarters, USMC. There, in the office of Operations and Training, now Plans and Policies, an aviation desk was set up and Captain Cunningham became officer-in-charge of Marine Corps aviation. During his incumbency, he worked untiringly for the growth of aviation and traveled all over the continent in surveying proposed aviation sites and facilities. He served as Officer-in-Charge of Marine Aviation until 26 December 1920 when he was detailed to command the First Air Squadron in Santo Domingo and in that command received two letters of commendation for his work with the squadron.
The early policy of the Marine Corps was to detail an officer to five years of aviation duty at the end of which time his flight orders were revoked and he was assigned again to general duty. Now a Major, when his tour of aviation duty expired in July 1922, he was ordered to the Marine Corps Schools at Quantico and was graduated number two in the class of May 1923. From then till June 1926, he was Assistant Adjutant and Inspector, after which he was ordered as Division Marine Officer and as aide on the Staff of Commander, Battleship Division Three. In June 1928, he was detailed to temporary detached duty at Nicaragua and served with the 2d Brigade Marines ad Executive Officer of the Western Area at Leon, Nicaragua. When that tour of duty expired, he became executive officer and registrar of the Marine Corps Institute from 1929 to 1931 and then was detailed as an Assistant Quartermaster at the Marine Barracks, Philadelphia, where he served from April 1931 to March 1935.
About this time, Major Cunningham's health began to fail and he spent several months in the hospital. On 10 May 1935, he appeared before a Naval Retiring Board at the Marine Barracks, Washington, D. C., which found him to be incapacitated for active service and ten days later he was ordered home to await retirement on the first of August of that year. While on the retired list, he was appointed a lieutenant colonel with rank from 16 January 1936 and on 27 May 1939 he died at Sarasota, Florida.
LtCol Cunningham's contribution to naval aviation and the Marine Corps cannot be measured. He pioneered in aviation when aviation was recognized only by a few men of broad vision like himself. He gave the very best years of his life pioneering in flying and risked his life and health when few appreciated the risk, the discouragements, and frustrations the early aviator faced.

Though Colonel Cunningham's was the unsung role of the pioneer and brought little glory when he lived, the toll of Japanese aircraft blasted from the Pacific skies by Marine planes and other spectacular accomplishments of Marine aviators in World War II and subsequent conflicts of the 20th century are his monument.

[JohnP]

Given the fact that there has been no response to the answer, I assume that I have to post the next question.

This picture shows an Air Force Staff Sergeant wearing US Army patches to include an 82nd Airborne Division combat patch.

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=367

1. What US Air Force units are authorized to wear US Army unit patches?

2. What uniforms can they wear them on?

[armysc_25b]

I wonder how long it'll take for this one to get an answer... But given it's a question on an Air Force topic, and how they usually get answered quickly, I give it an hour after the 2-hour rule.

(BTW, I know it :D )

[JohnP]

I wonder how long it'll take for this one to get an answer... But given it's a question on an Air Force topic, and how they usually get answered quickly, I give it an hour after the 2-hour rule.

(BTW, I know it :D )

I had no doubt in my little, Airborne mind.:D

You'll have to wait until tomorrow morning before I can confirm it though. I'm heading out at this time and won't sign back in until then. Have a great evening.

[armysc_25b]

OK kids, I gave ya enough time.

Air Force personnel are authorized to wear Army Shoulder Sleeve Insignia (SSI) and SSI - Former War Time Service (SSI-FWTS), AKA unit patch and combat patch respectively, while attached to Army units. These patches must be removed from their BDU's (still looking for a clear answer for the ABU's) when they are no longer attached to said units. As well, according to another source I found when verifying my information (looking to actually verify this one as well), this practice is not actually authorized according to Air Force Regulation.

[JohnP]

OK kids, I gave ya enough time.

Air Force personnel are authorized to wear Army Shoulder Sleeve Insignia (SSI) and SSI - Former War Time Service (SSI-FWTS), AKA unit patch and combat patch respectively, while attached to Army units. These patches must be removed from their BDU's (still looking for a clear answer for the ABU's) when they are no longer attached to said units. As well, according to another source I found when verifying my information (looking to actually verify this one as well), this practice is not actually authorized according to Air Force Regulation.

AFI36-2903 2 AUGUST 2006

Figure 2.7. Men’s and Women’s Battle Dress Uniform (BDU).

4. (MAJCOM/FOA/DRU Commanders' discretion). Center subdued organizational patch (MAJCOM/wing/squadron) on lower portion of (from right to left) pockets between the left and right edges and bottom of flap and pocket. When prescribed, center additional patch over right pocket 1/2 inch above name tape. NOTE: Personnel attached to Army units may wear associate unit patch, only while attached to the unit.

This was located in a 6 August 2007 change - Airmen will not be allowed to wear sister-services patches on the new ABU.


The latest addition of AFI36-2903 2 AUGUST 2006 reads the following:

AFI 36-2903, Dress and Personal Appearance of Air Force Personnel containing change 2 (dated 28 May 08), is void and hereby rescinded as of the date of its issuance. The publication was improperly routed and mistakenly failed to incorporate the provisions of AFI 36-2903, change 1, dated 6 August 2007, into its publication. If you downloaded or printed any copies of the erroneous document, please destroy those copies. Also, if you've posted local supplements to the AFI based on this void and rescinded document, rescind the publication as of the date of issuance.

The way I read the aforementioned ABU change has not been instituted. (According to my brothers still playing with the US Army, there is still a large amount of pride with by wearing the Army Unit Patch. This is going back in front of the Uniform Board for clarification.

This was a trick question when I asked units may wear it. It was to see if anyone actually looked in the Instructions, if you hadn’t, the answer may have been, TACP or Combat Weather. This is to show that there are more out there than you think.

Armysc25 b, you win both the kewpie doll and the honor of posting the next Trivia Question.:M16:

[armysc_25b]

Question will be coming soon. Priorities for this afternoon:

1) Respond to DQ2 in COM/130
2) Complete CheckPoint in CRT/205
3) Verify Fit for Life is accurate for turn-in to PSG
4) Research question for Grunts
5) Post question

[armysc_25b]

OK, college work completed, military duties completed, and research conducted. Only leaves #5 of my priority list to complete, which is coming right now.

For the Army, what is the predecessor to the Warrant Officer? What is it's predecessor's lineage traced to? And lastly, when was the Warrant Officer officially established?

[wukong]

There has been quite a bit of discussion of stars and wreaths on Air Force Occupational badges. I earned my basic parachutist badge in 1983 and retired in 1991. With no further information, what parachutist badge should I have worn below my master pilot wings at retirement (and why)?

[JohnP]

There has been quite a bit of discussion of stars and wreaths on Air Force Occupational badges. I earned my basic parachutist badge in 1983 and retired in 1991. With no further information, what parachutist badge should I have worn below my master pilot wings at retirement (and why)?

AFI11-402 25 SEPTEMBER 20077.4.7.7.1.

Basic Parachutist Rating:

Officers or Enlisted members qualified for aviation/parachutist service and currently assigned to (or approved for assignment to) a "J" coded DAFSC billet or billet coded as DAFSC 13DXX, 1C2X1, 1T2X1, 1T0X1. Member must be medically qualified for Flying Class III physical. DNIF status is considered to be qualified for the purpose of this table.

Senior Parachutist Rating:

Complete 24 months on jump status with an organization assigned a parachute jump mission. Plus: 30 Static Line Jumps; plus: Jumpmaster Qualified.

JM Qualification:

A parachutist becomes a qualified jumpmaster via completion of a recognized JM training program IAW AFI 11-410. Commanders will submit to the HARM office a letter and additional documentation that certifies the member is JM qualified (e.g. MAJCOM approved plan of instruction signed by the training certifier, formal class certificate of completion, etc.). The servicing HARM office will publish an AO on AF Form 1887 indicating the specific JM qualification in the remarks section of the AO IAW AFI 11-401. HARM offices will publish the AO before updating JM accomplishments in ARMS. The HARM office will file a copy of the additional documentation (e.g. MAJCOM approved plan of instruction signed by the training certifier, formal class certificate of completion, etc.) in the member's JRF. AFI 11-401, Chapter 2 establishes the effective period of an AO authorizing jump status.

Master Parachutist Rating:

Complete 36 months on jump status with an organization assigned a parachute jump mission. Plus: 65 Static Line Jumps; plus: Jumpmaster Qualified.

There is a caveat for US Army personnel only; US Army personnel may wear the Senior and Master Parachutist badge if they met all the requirements of that rating but had not been given the opportunity to attend jumpmaster school. This addendum was removed from US Army Regulations in 1984.

With the information given, you would have been awarded the Basic Parachutist Badge and without knowing if you have attended an approved jumpmaster school and the amount of jumps you have, the Basic Parachutist Badge would be the badge you should be wearing directly under your Master Command Pilots Wings.

:paratrooper:

[JohnP]

There is a lot of talk over Special Ops within the US Air Force. There is special recognition given to those assigned to these units. Your research questions are:

1. How many Career Fields within the US Air Force are authorized to wear distinctive berets?

2. Name the Career Fields?

3. Quote your source.

4. Extra Credit – What other US Air Force career fields have distinctive head wear that is authorized within the US Air Force?

[wukong]

With the information given, you would have been awarded the Basic Parachutist Badge and without knowing if you have attended an approved jumpmaster school and the amount of jumps you have, the Basic Parachutist Badge would be the badge you should be wearing directly under your Master Command Pilots Wings.

:paratrooper:

Have the geriatic senile group taken over this thread? Your answer is correct as I did not attend a JM course. I passed up the opportunity to attend a class conducted by the 1/1 SF at Torii Station. They offered 25 slots and it was much more important to qualify the Army and Marine parachutist in those limited slots. The parachutist badge is an Army badge and not an AF badge and is governed by Army rules.

It is not unusual to see AF Academy cadets and graduates sporting stars and wreaths.

[JohnP]

Have the geriatic senile group taken over this thread?

Geriatic – spelled Geriatric

When you get a chance, explain your attempted sarcasm?

Your answer is correct as I did not attend a JM course. I passed up the opportunity to attend a class conducted by the 1/1 SF at Torii Station. They offered 25 slots and it was much more important to qualify the Army and Marine parachutist in those limited slots.

That was very civil of you to do. At Fort Bragg, we were required to assist our units during Mass/Tacs with JM duties along with performing our own JM duties for our separate operations; therefore we attended whatever JM school we could get our hands on.

The parachutist badge is an Army badge and not an AF badge and is governed by Army rules. It is not unusual to see AF Academy cadets and graduates sporting stars and wreaths.

If I may refer you this Air Force Instruction:

AFI11-402 25 SEPTEMBER 20077.4.7.7.1.

The Parachutist badge falls under this directive when you are in the US Air Force.

In addition, A parachutist becomes a qualified jumpmaster via completion of a recognized JM training program IAW AFI 11-410. Commanders will submit to the HARM office a letter and additional documentation that certifies the member is JM qualified (e.g. MAJCOM approved plan of instruction signed by the training certifier, formal class certificate of completion, etc.).

Pararescue, CCT, TACP, Combat Weather and the Air Force Academy all have approved jumpmaster schools. This is why you will see Academy cadets with star and wreaths. The only thing that the cadets can’t do is claim any sport parachuting on their jump records.

[JohnP]

Okay children, let's not get distracted by the musings of 2 lost souls; there are still questions on the table:

There is a lot of talk over Special Ops within the US Air Force. There is special recognition given to those assigned to these units. Your research questions are:

1. How many Career Fields within the US Air Force are authorized to wear distinctive berets?

2. Name the Career Fields?

3. Quote your source.

4. Extra Credit – What other US Air Force career fields have distinctive head wear that is authorized within the US Air Force?

I now submit a challenge to our Cadet Population: If you can answer these questions within the next 2 hours, I will answer, who is the bunny picture?” located in my other pictures. This answer will be sent to you in a PM.

If not, I will give the answer to any regular member (except ‘03_Shooter, he already knows.) in a PM.

[FeelinFroggy]

There is a lot of talk over Special Ops within the US Air Force. There is special recognition given to those assigned to these units. Your research questions are:

1. How many Career Fields within the US Air Force are authorized to wear distinctive berets?

2. Name the Career Fields?

3. Quote your source.

4. Extra Credit – What other US Air Force career fields have distinctive head wear that is authorized within the US Air Force? Not sure they'll "survive" this question.

[Billyd]

I would give them a bit more time as not all the cadets will beable to access the site withi-in that time frame depending on location/school. May I suggest 1800 hrs Central Time?

[JohnP]

I would give them a bit more time as not all the cadets will beable to access the site withi-in that time frame depending on location/school. May I suggest 1800 hrs Central Time?

I, again will not be here at 1800 CT, so, let's make it 10:00 AM CT 4/25/2009.

[TruBlu]

There is a lot of talk over Special Ops within the US Air Force. There is special recognition given to those assigned to these units. Your research questions are:

1. How many Career Fields within the US Air Force are authorized to wear distinctive berets?

2. Name the Career Fields?

3. Quote your source.

4. Extra Credit – What other US Air Force career fields have distinctive head wear that is authorized within the US Air Force?

1. Six career fields are authorized to wear berets within the USAF.

2. Air-Weather Service Parachutists, Security Forces, Combat Control, Tactical Air Command and Control Specialists, Para rescue, and Tactical Airlift Liaison Officers and Air Liaison Officers

3. http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0103/berets.pdf

4. Not so sure, but I'd have to say pilots. They get cool little helmets when they fly right lol?

*Is that your wife?

[JohnP]

1. Six career fields are authorized to wear berets within the USAF.

2. Air-Weather Service Parachutists, Security Forces, Combat Control, Tactical Air Command and Control Specialists, Para rescue, and Tactical Airlift Liaison Officers and Air Liaison Officers

3. http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0103/berets.pdf

4. Not so sure, but I'd have to say pilots. They get cool little helmets when they fly right lol?

*Is that your wife?

1. Close
2. Which one(s) are you missing?
3. This isn't a very good source.
4. This is gear you wear on your head, but not when you're away from the flight line.

* - No, it is not my wife.

[HairyEyeball]

... pilots...get cool little helmets when they fly...

This is gear you wear on your head, but not when you're away from the flight line.

Then it must be the cool propellor beanies they wear at those times, huh?

[JohnP]

Then it must be the cool propellor beanies they wear at those times, huh?

If it were only authorized.... IT would give the nickname 'prop-heads' a whole new meaning. :pilot:

[armysc_25b]

Not to feel left out here or anything, but...

For the Army, what is the predecessor to the Warrant Officer? What is it's predecessor's lineage traced to? And lastly, when was the Warrant Officer officially established?

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

For the Army, what is the predecessor to the Warrant Officer? What is it's predecessor's lineage traced to? And lastly, when was the Warrant Officer officially established?

The predecessor was the "Headquarters Clerk".

The rank of Warrant Officer was established on July 9th, 1918.

[armysc_25b]

You skipped right over the link that ties the Headquarters Clerk and Warrant Officer together. There was one act prior to the creation of the rank and grade of warrant officer. What was involved in this?

(two hour rule waived, as this is a hint/continuation of original question)

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

The Field Clerk was the grade that came before the Warrant Officer (as well as the Pay/Quartermaster Clerk.)

The act that created the warrant officer was The Act of July 1918 (that's the only name I could find for it... ._.) - it created the Army Mine Planter Service in the Coastal Artillery Corps, and directed that Warrant Officers serve as crew on various ships.

[armysc_25b]

That's the act name they use on the Warrant Officer Career College page, which was my source, so don't worry about the name. As far as the info, very good.

[Billyd]

1. Six career fields are authorized to wear berets within the USAF.

2. Air-Weather Service Parachutists, Security Forces, Combat Control, Tactical Air Command and Control Specialists, Para rescue, and Tactical Airlift Liaison Officers and Air Liaison Officers

3. http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0103/berets.pdf

4. Not so sure, but I'd have to say pilots. They get cool little helmets when they fly right lol?

*Is that your wife?

Think "governing directive" :devil:

[JohnP]

I had submitted a challenge to our Cadet Population: If they could answer these questions within the specified time frame, I would answer, who is the "Bunny" picture? located in my other pictures. With only one unsuccessful attempt, and the time frame now 5 hours overdue, I now extend these trivial pursuit questions to the General Forum members. You have until Monday, 10:00 AM for a correct answer. If you are successful I will give you the answer to the “Bunny” question in a PM. If not, I will answer the questions and keep the “Bunny” to myself.:devil:


There is a lot of talk over Special Ops within the US Air Force. There is special recognition given to those assigned to these units. Your research questions are:

1. How many Career Fields within the US Air Force are authorized to wear distinctive berets?

2. Name the Career Fields?

3. Quote your source.

4. Extra Credit – What other US Air Force career fields have distinctive head wear that is authorized within the US Air Force?

[HairyEyeball]

Combat Control Specialists, Special Tactics Officers: Scarlet
Pararescue Specialists, Combat Rescue Officers: Maroon
Security Forces: Dark Blue
Tactical Air Control Specialists, Tactical Air Liaison Officers, Air Mobility Liaison Officers (and Cadet Honor Guard, Zoomie U.): Black
Special Operations Weather Technicians, Combat Weather Technicians, Special Operations Weather Officers, Combat Weather Officers: Grey
Enlisted Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape Specialists: Pewter Green
1st Class Cadets, United States Air Force Academy, and 2nd Class Cadets acting as cadre during basic cadet training: Blue

...and I haven't seen a bunny costume that interested me since they closed the NY Playboy club.
The first unit of the USAF to be authorised berets was the SAC Elite Guard in 1957. They wore the dark blue beret similar to the current Air Force Security Forces.

[Billyd]

Looks like HE got the first two, at least according to AFI 36-2903 (That would be answer number three)

Number four, if you check that same AFI, you will see in tables 3.1 to 3.6 inclusive, that there are a number of AFSCs that have distinctive headgear.

AF Honor and Color Guards at various command levels as well as drill teams all wear the Ceremonial Headgear, Shade 1602 trimmed in silver

Chefs wear Commercial style 8-inch cloth chef hat with velcro closure, with
a 2 1/2 inch white sweatband containing official red, white & blue Air Force Services Food Service Logo embroidered on the front of the white band. Wear (squarely on the head, with no hair protruding in front of the cap) in food service preparation and serving areas as required in accordance with U.S. Department of Agriculture food code. Do not wear outdoors. Shift workers wear navy blue, First cooks wear white, and Shift Managers wear red hats to identify shift status.

BMTIs, Campaign (bush) hat with service uniform and BDU
Special Operations (Commando) Units, Campaign (bush) hat with BDU.
Defense Language Institute English Language Center Instructors Maroon campaign hat.
Air Force Fitness Center Staff Blue cap with Services logo embroidered in hite on front of cap. Use when no approved squadron cap exists.

Does that satisfy the requirements?

[wukong]

I have no idea how the AF works now, but years ago practically every squadron/unit could wear a baseball style cap of a unit standard color with unit designation embroidered with the utility uniform.

[HairyEyeball]

But back then you were still driving Wright Flyers and washing the castor oil out of your silk scarves...

[wukong]

But back then you were still driving Wright Flyers and washing the castor oil out of your silk scarves...

Well granddad, you make me feel old, tired and definitely part of the senile geriatric group.:)

[armysc_25b]

I have no idea how the AF works now, but years ago practically every squadron/unit could wear a baseball style cap of a unit standard color with unit designation embroidered with the utility uniform.
Those caps are going away with the phase out of the BDU's.

[wukong]

If it is time for a new question; what American movie actor served as a Marine in WWI then enlisted in the Navy during WWII during which he was awarded a Silver Star?

[HairyEyeball]

Well granddad, you make me feel old, tired and definitely part of the senile geriatric group.:)

Oh, the calumnies and vituperation from the senile and dessicated heaped upon those of us who have aged richly and gracefully! Stay abed, spare your wheelchair, I'll order your pablum delivered...with a nice umbrella in your prune juice. Hell, I'll even squeeze my monthly pittance for a new propellor beanie in your squadron color with your name embroidered (in large letters, so you can read it).

Good to have you participating again, Wu.

[wukong]

...calumnies and vituperation...

If my ever failing memory serves me momentarily, I believe these were the slightly used partners of the bait and switch scheme that the 2Lts were always subject to in Ciudad Acuña while on well deserved R&R from the trials and tribulations of training at Laughlin AFB.

[HairyEyeball]

If my ever failing memory serves me momentarily, I believe these were the slightly used partners of the bait and switch scheme that the 2Lts were always subject to in Ciudad Acuña while on well deserved R&R from the trials and tribulations of training at Laughlin AFB.

Alas, it fails to serve adequately...calumnies and vituperation were the professional witnesses employed by the legal firm of Conscious, Pain and Suffering, best remembered for their representation of non-Veterans suing the VA for combat-related, service-connected disability pensions from battles taking place before their birth.

[JohnP]

I am going to accept both of these answers. PMs are inbound.

Combat Control Specialists, Special Tactics Officers: Scarlet
Pararescue Specialists, Combat Rescue Officers: Maroon
Security Forces: Dark Blue
Tactical Air Control Specialists, Tactical Air Liaison Officers, Air Mobility Liaison Officers (and Cadet Honor Guard, Zoomie U.): Black
Special Operations Weather Technicians, Combat Weather Technicians, Special Operations Weather Officers, Combat Weather Officers: Grey
Enlisted Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape Specialists: Pewter Green
1st Class Cadets, United States Air Force Academy, and 2nd Class Cadets acting as cadre during basic cadet training: Blue

...and I haven't seen a bunny costume that interested me since they closed the NY Playboy club.
The first unit of the USAF to be authorised berets was the SAC Elite Guard in 1957. They wore the dark blue beret similar to the current Air Force Security Forces.

It will please you to know, though the “Bunny” clubs are shut down, the Playboy Mansion is in full operation. If you ever get an invitation, go; it’s worth the trip.

Looks like HE got the first two, at least according to AFI 36-2903 (That would be answer number three)

Number four, if you check that same AFI, you will see in tables 3.1 to 3.6 inclusive, that there are a number of AFSCs that have distinctive headgear.

AF Honor and Color Guards at various command levels as well as drill teams all wear the Ceremonial Headgear, Shade 1602 trimmed in silver

Chefs wear Commercial style 8-inch cloth chef hat with velcro closure, with
a 2 1/2 inch white sweatband containing official red, white & blue Air Force Services Food Service Logo embroidered on the front of the white band. Wear (squarely on the head, with no hair protruding in front of the cap) in food service preparation and serving areas as required in accordance with U.S. Department of Agriculture food code. Do not wear outdoors. Shift workers wear navy blue, First cooks wear white, and Shift Managers wear red hats to identify shift status.

BMTIs, Campaign (bush) hat with service uniform and BDU
Special Operations (Commando) Units, Campaign (bush) hat with BDU.
Defense Language Institute English Language Center Instructors Maroon campaign hat.
Air Force Fitness Center Staff Blue cap with Services logo embroidered in hite on front of cap. Use when no approved squadron cap exists.

Does that satisfy the requirements?

The requirements are satisfied. In addition to the “Bunny” information, you now have the privilege of entering the next trivia question.

[wukong]

Alas, it fails to serve adequately...calumnies and vituperation were the professional witnesses employed by the legal firm of Conscious, Pain and Suffering, best remembered for their representation of non-Veterans suing the VA for combat-related, service-connected disability pensions from battles taking place before their birth.

I shall have to work for once in my life of dissipation to top this reply. You sir are in rare form!!!! I would very much like to have representation by the firm if anyone has their address.:salute:

I believe this question is still open for ingenious answers

...what American movie actor served as a Marine in WWI then enlisted in the Navy during WWII during which he was awarded a Silver Star?

[HairyEyeball]

And while attempting an 'ingenious' answer to the above, ponder on the identity of the individual whose fame as a rather unique television personality belies a history as a decorated OSS agent working directly for 'Wild Bill' Dononvan in Asia.

[wukong]

If it is time for a new question; what American movie actor served as a Marine in WWI then enlisted in the Navy during WWII during which he was awarded a Silver Star?

Hint: He is not John Wayne

[HairyEyeball]

Obviously, Wu, these kids don't watch anything that includes actual acting talent, actual people, actual plot lines or doesn't explode every 13.7 seconds, between bouts of badly-driven high-speed chases, phantasmic 'gun'play, and multi-million-dollar special effects. And apparently 'research' has gone the way of 'walking' (or in some cases, 'riding your dinosaur') to the library.

Back, I suppose, to XXI-Century stumpers like 'what rank is the AF General in this photo?'

[TruBlu]

It's not that I'm not interested, but I'm stumped on this one.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

I'm stumped as well. ._.

[JohnP]

Obviously, Wu, these kids don't watch anything that includes actual acting talent, actual people, actual plot lines or doesn't explode every 13.7 seconds, between bouts of badly-driven high-speed chases, phantasmic 'gun'play, and multi-million-dollar special effects. And apparently 'research' has gone the way of 'walking' (or in some cases, 'riding your dinosaur') to the library.

Back, I suppose, to XXI-Century stumpers like 'what rank is the AF General in this photo?'

Oh, Oh, Oh, Gunny Eyeball! (From Zoomie with beret, jumping up and down in the back of the room waving his arms frantically!)

I know them, I know them, can I pleeeeeeeease answer the questions? Can I answer them in them in the front leaning rest position?:recon:

I've been a good jumper; can I please answer them while I'm doing an Australian Rappel with full equipment while ripping off a 200 round belt from my M-60?:M249SAW:

Pleeeeeeeease!!!!!!! Can I answer them when I’m assaulting through the bayonet course, in full gear, chemical suit and gas mask? :gasmask:

Please, please oh pretty please with the Crucible on top? :drill:

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

XXI-Century stumpers like 'what rank is the AF General in this photo?'

That was evil, sir. :dontgetit:

[Drill for life]

Oh, Oh, Oh, Gunny Eyeball! (From Zoomie with beret, jumping up and down in the back of the room waving his arms frantically!)

I know them, I know them, can I pleeeeeeeease answer the questions? Can I answer them in them in the front leaning rest position?

I've been a good jumper; can I please answer them while I'm doing an Australian Rappel with full equipment while ripping off a 200 round belt from my M-60?

Pleeeeeeeease!!!!!!! Can I answer them when I’m assaulting through the bayonet course, in full gear, chemical suit and gas mask?

Please, please oh pretty please with the Crucible on top?


Hey stop imitating me!!!! I haven't been active in this thread for a while because I'm kinda lost.

[HairyEyeball]

That was evil, sir. :dontgetit:

And this was 'remarkable' how? It appears to have been 'motivational', though - it elicited responses.

And enough time has passed for it to be 'open', and John, you've earned the opportunity - just this once - to answer in the relative comfort of the classroom.

[JohnP]

And this was 'remarkable' how? It appears to have been 'motivational', though - it elicited responses.

And enough time has passed for it to be 'open', and John, you've earned the opportunity - just this once - to answer in the relative comfort of the classroom.

Aye, Aye, Gunny!

Sterling Hayden (March 26, 1916 – May 23, 1986) was an American actor and author. For most of his career as a leading man, he specialized in westerns and film noir, such as Johnny Guitar, The Asphalt Jungle and The Killing. Later on he became noted as a character actor for such roles as Gen. Jack D. Ripper in Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964). He also played the Irish policeman, Captain McCluskey, in Francis Ford Coppola's The Godfather in 1972.

Hayden became a print model and later signed a contract with Paramount Pictures, who dubbed the 6' 5" (1.96 m) actor The Most Beautiful Man in the Movies and The Beautiful Blond Viking God. But after just two film roles, he left Hollywood to serve as an undercover agent with William J. Donovan's COI office. He remained there after it became the OSS. Hayden also joined the Marines under the name John Hamilton (which was never his legal name). His World War II service included running guns through German lines to the Yugoslav partisans and parachuting into fascist Croatia. He won the Silver Star and a commendation from Yugoslavia's Marshal Tito. :salute:

Interesting enough is this little caveat: His admiration for the Communist partisans led to a brief membership in the Communist Party. According to his IMDB biography, as the Red Scare deepened in U.S., "he cooperated with the House Un-American Activities Committee, confessing his brief Communist ties" and 'naming names'. :dontgetit:

[wukong]

Check this out! Just google OSS and READ! How hard can that be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Child

Next hint on my question: Unlike John Wayne, he was a real Marine and Sailor and was a character actor in many JW movies.

[HairyEyeball]

Before you hand it to them on a silver (plated) platter: Chief Petty Officer Ronald Jack Pennick of John Ford's Field Photographic Unit - and arguably in every talking picture Ford directed.

[wukong]

Correct as usual. You have to have great respect for a person who has done more than his share and then enlists at the age of 43. This is the age when most of us are retiring from service.

Next question:::: What warplane was flown by both Axis and Allied powers during WWII?

[03_SHOOTER]

The Nazi's managed to get their hands on a few P-51's, one or two B-17's, and at least on BT-7 trainer during the war which they used against us.

The Italians got their hands on some P-39's.

The Japanese also managed to get their hands on a few B-17's as well as some of our P-40's.

The P-36 was flown both Axis and Allies during the war after Germany sold the captured French birds to the Fins, who flew them against the Soviets. The Fins had also purchased some of our Brewster Buffalos prior to the War.

That's 6 different warplanes (and one military trainer) that were flown by both Allies and Axis powers during the war. Is that what you were looking for, or if not could you be a bit more specific?

[Stryfe]

The allies did also capture a few Me-262's when advancing through Germany towards the end of the war. Not sure if they flew them against Germany itself, but I know they did extensive testing with them. Thought I'd throw that out there and try it.

[wukong]

Let me restate my question. What warplane was manufactured by both Axis and Allied powers during WWII? Arms are captured and reused in all wars.

[TruBlu]

Remember guys, two hour hold time on answers to questions...

[03_SHOOTER]

Remember guys, two hour hold time on answers to questions...

I realize that, but was looking for clarification since I seriously doubted that he was talking about captured aircraft.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

The Mitsubishi A6M Zero.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/A6M5_TAIC.jpg

This is the reverse engineered and restored "Akutan Zero" which had crashed landed on Akutan Island in the Aleutian Islands.

(Even if this is the wrong answer, one fact: It was destroyed in 1945 when a SB2C lost control, rammed into it, and sliced it into pieces.)

[wukong]

Not what I'm looking far. This warplane was mass produced in several hundred copies. It has a convoluted connection with Midway (think out of the box).

BTW: Hairy, what was the answer you were looking for with your last question?

[HairyEyeball]

You got the answer, as did John - still waiting on at least one youngster to distill down the search parameters for anything that easy to find. Perhaps they are blissfully ignorant of the fact that the OSS employed female operatives such as "The Limping Lady" (not the answer, wrong theater)?

[03_SHOOTER]

Let me restate my question. What warplane was manufactured by both Axis and Allied powers during WWII? Arms are captured and reused in all wars.

Perhaps you speak of the Bristol Blenheim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Blenheim). Originally designed and built by the Bristol Aeroplane Company, the Finnish military ordered 41 of them in 1936, and in 1938 obtained a license to manufacture the Blenheim. The Fins manufactured 15 of them prior to the Winter War, and during WWII while allied with Nazi Germany an additional 41 were manufactured and used against the Soviets. A total of 4,422 Blenheims were manufactured.

If not, perhaps you are talking about the Hawker Hurricane. We should all be familiar with Britains great success with the Hurricane during the Battle of Britain, but what of the Yugoslavian Hurricanes? In 1938 the Royal Yugoslavian government ordered 12 Hawkers, and in '39 they placed an order for another 12, along with a manufacturing license so that they could produce their own. A total of 20 of these was manufactured prior to Yugoslavia joining the axis powers in 1941. The Yugoslavians also had a few of the aforementioned Bristol Blenheims through they did not manufature them. The Yugoslavians also produced several Hawker Fury's under license. Another interesting twist to the Yugoslavian story is that they also produced German Dornier Do 17's prior to the war, and used them against the Germans during the invasion.

Another interesting aside is the fact that the Finnish Air Force used a blue Swastika on a white background as the roundel on their aircraft going back as far as 1918, long before the Nazi's chose it as their symbol.

LATE EDIT:

Sorry Wu, I missed your post referencing a tie to Midway, so I'm off to do some research and see if I can find anything.

[wukong]

Another hint somewhat subtle: Think opposition research or to quote Sun Tzu, "Know your enemy...":)

[03_SHOOTER]

OK, I'm back.

Mayhaps you are wanting to know about the Japanese Showa/Nakajima L2D (Tabby) which is a license built version of the Douglas DC-3/C-47?

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

You got the answer, as did John - still waiting on at least one youngster to distill down the search parameters for anything that easy to find. Perhaps they are blissfully ignorant of the fact that the OSS employed female operatives such as "The Limping Lady" (not the answer, wrong theater)?

Sir, what was the question? What television personality had a career as a spy working for William Donovan?

If that's it, then it's Julia Child...

The Limping Lady, on the other hand, is Virginia Hall, and after her service with the Office of Strategic Services, she served with its successor, the Central Intelligence Agency...

Other Female spies (with ties to America) include: Josephine Baker (An American born singer who helped the French Resistance), Marlene Dietrich, Amy Thrope, and Barbara Lauwers.

[wukong]

C-47 is correct. http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avc47.html

Next question.

Name at least 3 colleges that are authorized battle streamers on their ROTC flags. One college traditionally fixes bayonets at formal parades, Which and Why? One college does not, Which and Why?

[wukong]

Hint:
One college has the formal title, The Military College of South Carolina.

[TruBlu]

The Citadel (GO SC!!!)
Florida State University ROTC
University of Hawaii ROTC

Not so sure about the bayonets, still looking...

[wukong]

The Citadel and FSU - Yes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Natural_Bridge

To this day the cadets of the Florida State University are 1 of 4 AROTC programs to have a battle streamer for their actions at the battle of Natural Bridge.

http://www.citadel.edu/citadel-history/brief-history.html#duringwbts

The regimental colors of the South Carolina Corps of Cadets carries eight battle streamers and one service streamer for the following campaigns and engagements by the Corps of Cadets:

Star of the West, January 9, 1861
Wappoo Cut, November 1861
James Island, June 1862
Charleston and Vicinity, July to October 1863
James Island, June 1864
Tulifinny, December 1864
James Island, December 1864 to February 1865
Williamston, May 1865
Confederate States Army


Can you cite an authority for Hawaii?

[TruBlu]

WHEREAS, the University of Hawaii Army ROTC detachment is the only senior ROTC unit in the nation to be awarded a battle streamer having been called to active duty on December 7, 1941; and

http://www.hawaii.edu/cgi-bin/uhnews-arc?20010316205029

[wukong]

I congratulate you on your excellent research. There are 5 colleges and universities that apparently have that honor. :salute:

One of the two yet to be named schools could provide very meaningful information for answering the remainder of my original question. Try not to trip over the hints that I have given.

[fjer]

Cadets from VMI served as an independent unit at the Battle of New Market, and thus fix bayonets.

[wukong]

http://www.citadel.edu/citadel-history/war-deaths/war-between-the-states.html

As a result of actions on the battlefield by The Battalion of State Cadets, The Citadel earned the right to post nine "institutional" battle streamers for "significant participation in a battle of historical importance." Only VMI (one "institutional" streamer), and Florida State and William & Mary Army ROTC units (each with one) have also earned that right. The national service academies post the battle streamers of their respective services, but none for "institutional" participation by the cadet corps.

My less than scholarly research indicates that cadets at The Citadel paraded with fixed bayonets until some time in the 1920s. During this period just after "The Great War" there was a strong pacifist movement in Charleston and the Corp of Cadets were restricted from parading with bayonets because they looked too militaristic. I do not know if this was a legal restriction or possibly a public relations gesture. In any case it is now a Citadel tradition to parade with rifles sans bayonets.

[wukong]

One more question and then I will give some one else a crack at this army of scholars.;)

Who was the first officer killed in the line of duty in Viet Nam?
Who was the first officer killed in the line of duty in OIF?
What do they have in common?
What is different about what they have in common?

Remember Sun Tzu, "Know your enemy....."

[Stryfe]

Lt. Col. Peter Dewey was shot and killed in Saigon, in 1945.
2nd Lt. Therrel Shane Childers died March 21, 2003 in Southern Iraq.
The only thing that I could find that was a little bit connecting between the two was that Dewey was fond of the Viet Minh and was shot because they thought he was French, after he yelled at them in French
And Childers was killed by a Surgical Unit in Kuwait.

Neither which were the "Main Enemy" of the US at the time?

[TruBlu]

In any case it is now a Citadel tradition to parade with rifles sans bayonets.

Although there are many a swords.

And to all the newer members that haven't seen the "trivia time" rules, read here: http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/showthread.php?t=751. Remember that 2 hour wait period!

[wukong]

Lt. Col. Peter Dewey was shot and killed in Saigon, in 1945.
2nd Lt. Therrel Shane Childers died March 21, 2003 in Southern Iraq.
The only thing that I could find that was a little bit connecting between the two was that Dewey was fond of the Viet Minh and was shot because they thought he was French, after he yelled at them in French
And Childers was killed by a Surgical Unit in Kuwait.

Neither which were the "Main Enemy" of the US at the time?

Lt Childers is correct. Where did you find, "Childers was killed by a Surgical Unit in Kuwait."

As far as Viet Nam, I'm looking for a name that you will find on the wall of the Viet Nam Memorial. Hint: Name contains the letters e & o.

http://www.citadel.edu/pao/newsreleases/war/Shane_ctnow.html

[Stryfe]

Lt Childers is correct. Where did you find,

As far as Viet Nam, I'm looking for a name that you will find on the wall of the Viet Nam Memorial. Hint: Name contains the letters e & o.

http://www.citadel.edu/pao/newsreleases/war/Shane_ctnow.html

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=10603969

Childers was shot in the stomach as he led his platoon to secure an oil field in southern Iraq and died in a surgical unit in Kuwait.I think this is correct.

[wukong]

My objection is to the word killed, as in "...killed by a Surgical Unit in Kuwait." Your assertion is that the medical unit was responsible for the Lt's death. Be careful in what you say.

[wukong]

Hint: What they have in common has been exposed in one of my replies during the past week.

[wukong]

OK, Here's the silver platter. Both men graduated from The Citadel. This is what they have in common.

[wukong]

Hint: Let's see if we can make this difficult.
1. Google The Citadel
2. Select the institution's official site "www.citadel.edu/main"
3. Select "About The Citadel"
4. Select "History"
5. Select "War Deaths"
6. Select "Vietnam War"
7. Read first sentence

[wukong]

http://www.citadel.edu/citadel-history/war-deaths.html

Captain Terry Cordell was the first American officer to fall in Vietnam, and 58,000 American servicemen followed him...

Capt. Cordell and Lt. Childers differ in their source of commissions. Lt Childers was commissioned as an officer of Marines via the Marine Corps Enlisted Commissioning Program (MCECP). I don't usually go out if my way to say kind things about the Marine Corps, but this is one very sensible program of the MC for which I tip my hat. The MCECP rewards both ambition and talent and the participants are a credit to the MC, fellow members of the profession of arms and the United States of America. I believe that the BTDT bunch on this forum would like to see more "buzz" about the MCECP and other such programs among you young wannabes than such trifles as a piece of colored cloth for buttoning your shirts, polishing your shoes or attending a tea party.

This question was generated to lead you to the MCECP. I guess we better stick with "what is the rank of the general in the picture."

[JohnP]

This question was generated to lead you to the MCECP. I guess we better stick with "what is the rank of the general in the picture."

I'm here to assist:

What is the rank of the general in this picture?

Extra Credit - Who is he or she?

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=454

[JohnP]

I'm here to assist:

What is the rank of the general in this picture?

Extra Credit - Who is he or she?


I guess that Presidente Generalissimo Antonio de Padua María Severino López de Santa Anna y Pérez de Lebrón was too difficult for you.

Okay Wukong and Hairy, let's resort to basics;

What rank is the General in this picture?

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=455

Extra Credit - What branch did he serve in?

Any Marine getting this wrong will be personally visited by HE and I'm driving!

[wukong]

Perhaps we have been too hard on the youngsters. No one wishes to be hammered or abused. I can never remember de Lebrón. ;)

[Drill for life]

That is Chesty Puller. He was a Lt.General and was awarded five Navy Crosses. He was in the U.S. Marine Corps, he was enlisted prior to his commission.

Sleep tight Chesty where ever you are!!!

[wukong]

For all you cadets with massive racks, associate a General Officer with this modest rack.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/carrabellefl/ed.jpg

[PhoenixCadet]

For all you cadets with massive racks, associate a General Officer with this modest rack.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/carrabellefl/ed.jpg

Marine General Edwin A. Pollock, former commander of the Fleet Marine Force, Pacific.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Edwin_A_Pollock.jpg/250px-Edwin_A_Pollock.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_A._Pollock

-PC

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

I haven't checked this thread in a while...

[wukong]

Marine General Edwin A. Pollock, former commander of the Fleet Marine Force, Pacific.



Outstanding work! A fine gentleman and giant in who's shadow I've had the opportunity to stand.

See what you can do with this question. What General Officer flew the first aircraft to deliberately land in Gia Lam Airport, North Viet Nam during the official war period? What was the aircraft?

[wukong]

Hint: Actually there were two AF General officers on the crew of the aircraft. Lt Col (BGen) Ed Brya was one. This tidbit should be enough to lead you to the 4 star.

[Billyd]

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/picture.php?albumid=55&pictureid=456

General Andrew P. Iosue (pronounced Oz-way) In January 1983 then a Colonel and the commander of the 374th Tactical Airlift Wing flew one of two C-130s into the referenced airfield. The first to land in 19 years, this mission was to transport North and South Vietnamese officials to Saigon for discussions related to the release of POWs.

[HairyEyeball]

A little quick on the trigger with Santa Anna, there, John - not all of us pop in every day. As to the 'follow-up', how many here know of the sign: "You're not a Marine unless you stop in and have a beer" (or words to that effect) - that graced Chesty's lawn for years. It was the high point of my first visit to Quantico, where my close friend (and the 'best man' at my wedding), the late Lt. Bob H. Dobrow, was going through TBS. I don't remember what the beer was, but to have stood in the shadow of greatness, even briefly...

[wukong]

General Andrew P. Iosue (pronounced Oz-way) In January 1983 then a Colonel and the commander of the 374th Tactical Airlift Wing flew one of two C-130s into the referenced airfield. The first to land in 19 years, this mission was to transport North and South Vietnamese officials to Saigon for discussions related to the release of POWs.

Right man, wrong decade. As one $hithouse poet opined in Viet Nam, "There is a right way and a wrong way. Then there is an Iosue."

Another tidbit about Colonel (Gen) Iosue. He flew on the first aircraft to attempt low level resupply to the South Vietnamese ground combat forces at An Loc during the Easter Offensive of 1972. I believe that Ed Brya was also on that mission. Iosue felt in all likelihood that he was selecting men for their death when he put together the crew list. He had the courage to go with them. (He also ordered the officer who proposed the mission to 7AF to fly on one aircraft in the flow.)

Let's try an easier one. What regiment did not accompany its division in the assault on Normandy? Who was the commander of the regiment?

[JohnP]

A little quick on the trigger with Santa Anna, there, John - not all of us pop in every day.

I didn't think 36 hours was quick when the answer only answer needed was General; but I defer to experience and will wait longer for the next answer. :drill:

As to the 'follow-up', how many here know of the sign: "You're not a Marine unless you stop in and have a beer" (or words to that effect) - that graced Chesty's lawn for years. It was the high point of my first visit to Quantico, where my close friend (and the 'best man' at my wedding), the late Lt. Bob H. Dobrow, was going through TBS. I don't remember what the beer was, but to have stood in the shadow of greatness, even briefly...

I’ve met the famous, infamous, legends, talented and beautiful people but I have never had the honor of ever meeting a God. Put in that similar situation, I don’t know if I would’ve been able to even drink the beer I was given.

I’m aware of a story given by an SF Officer and his NCO about General Colin Powell. It seems that Gen Powell had made the statement to their group that if anyone was in DC to drop in for a drink. The aforementioned 2 were there for a visit to the JCS and decided to take the General up on the invitation and walked 5 miles to his house. Unaware, they arrived on his birthday when a party was going on in his honor. The “greeters” at the door promptly “shooed” the uninvited scum away. When General Powell asked who was at the door, he was advised, that they were just 2 Army types. The General promptly ran out the door and down the street until he caught up with the 2 men. He then walked back with them and treated them as honored guests at his birthday party.

Men like General Puller and General Powell are who you devote your career and your life for. They don’t forget where they came from and who helped get them there.

[Billyd]

Right man, wrong decade. As one $hithouse poet opined in Viet Nam, "There is a right way and a wrong way. Then there is an Iosue."

Fat fingered that one. That should have 1973. Keys are too close to gether on this keyboard :p

[HairyEyeball]

General Puller never subscribed to the theory that he descended from Olympus to walk among men, and had the talent to put the Marines he met at ease. I experienced the same 'humanity' (for lack of a better term) when I was fortunate enough to meet General Lew Walt (the 'Three Star Grunt', later Assistant Commandant) and Mamie Eisenhower. General Westmoreland tried, but hadn't mastered it when I met him at the same event.

'Greatness' is a much misused, overused word, and not all who may do 'great' things achieve it...nor is everyone who possesses it fortunate enough to have those accomplishments which display it 'recognized' by any but those touched by it. Many of us have stood in its presence without being aware of anything but a 'feeling' of the privilege.

[Billyd]

All right. Thanks to HE, JohnP, Wukong, 03_shooter and the rest for keeping this going.

Here is my question for you:

What two types of emblems are typically used in AF Heraldly, and at what level are those emblems used? What distiguished those levels?

Don't forget about the 2-hour rule.

[wukong]

How about answering my question first.

Let's try an easier one. What regiment did not accompany its division in the assault on Normandy? Who was the commander of the regiment?

Then I will shut up (for a minute or two).

[JohnP]

All right. Thanks to HE, JohnP, Wukong, 03_shooter and the rest for keeping this going.

Here is my question for you:

What two types of emblems are typically used in AF Heraldly, and at what level are those emblems used? What distiguished those levels?

Don't forget about the 2-hour rule.

AFI 84-105

3.7. Heraldic Standards. Emblem designs and mottoes must:
a. Reflect favorably on the United States Air Force.
b. Be original, distinctive, dignified, and in good taste.
c. Be non-controversial.
3.7.1. Organizations may design their own emblems or arrange through AFHRA for new designs (see para.3.6.3.1.5.).
3.7.2. Follow these design element instructions, keeping in mind the purpose of Air Force heraldry as stated in para.3.1.:
3.7.2.1. Use accepted heraldic symbols or stylized elements.
3.7.2.2. Keep emblem design uncluttered and as simple as possible. A simple, clean design is much easier to reproduce as a patch, letterhead, or other rendition.
3.7.2.3. All symbols and elements must be placed within the parameters of the disc or shield.
3.7.2.4. Don’t exceed three elements (See elements in terms).
3.7.2.5. Don’t duplicate existing emblems, badges, or flags.
3.7.2.6. Don’t include symbols or caricatures associated with foreign nations, extremist groups, games of chance, or a specific geographical location.
3.7.2.7. Don’t depict numbers, letters, words, symbols of a morbid nature, gambling devices, cartoon-like characters, assigned aircraft, or specific equipment.
3.7.2.8. Don’t infringe on a trademark or copyright.

Table 3.1. Organizational Emblems.

1. If the echelon is an establishment and it is not assigned to a wing echelon organization then the authorized emblem is: a distinctive symbolic emblem of its own on the Air Force shield.
2. If the echelon is a group and it is assigned to a wing with a different number then the authorized emblem is: a distinctive symbolic emblem of its own on the Air Force shield.
3. If the echelon is a group and it is assigned to a like-numbered wing or named wing/equivalent that of the parent establishment then the authorized emblem is: with the group's own designation in the scroll.
4. If the echelon is a squadron, constituted numbered flight, or unit of a comparable level (see note) and it is N/A then the authorized emblem is: a distinctive symbolic emblem of its own on a disc.
5. If the echelon is a headquarters or standard operating element as defined in AFI 38-101 and it is part of an establishment then the authorized emblem is: that of the parent organization served.
6. If the echelon is a directorate, division, office, branch, section, or other non-unit and it is N/A then the authorized emblem is: none.

NOTE: Unusual organizations not clearly identified as to organizational level must submit evidence of their organizational status when requesting approval of an emblem.

With the regulation now on the table, I submit that you may be talking about the shield and disc designs.

The shield design is for Groups and Above (Flag Bearing Units).

The disc design is for Squadrons and Equivalent.

The distinguishing levels are noted in Table 3.1 Organizational Emblems numbers 1, 2 and 3 for the Groups and above and number 4 for Squadron and equivalent.

I attempted to post the Blank Emblem designs from AFI but was unable to. I submit for your approval these designs I pulled off the web. As a note, they were picked at random and I was never a member of either unit.

Wing and above:

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=457

Squadron and equivalent:

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=458


This question involved some research and for the record, I did not use WIKI!

[wukong]

How about answering my question first.



Then I will shut up (for a minute or two).

Hint: Devils in Baggy Pants.;

[Billyd]

Very good JohnP. That is indeed what was being asked. An easy way to remember is if the organization has a flag, they have a shield. No flag, disc.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

Now I see why I left this thread alone...

The adults took it over o_o

I will attempt to dive back into this thread...

[03_SHOOTER]

Hint: Devils in Baggy Pants.;

504th PIR of the 82nd Airborne Division under the Command of Colonel Reuben H. Tucker.

The 504th was held back from the invasion of Normandy due to high casualties taken in the Italy campaign.

[HairyEyeball]

After his service as a Marine Platoon Leader but before being appointed Secretary of the Navy under President Reagan, what distinguished James Henry "Jim" Webb, Jr. Provide two examples.

[Billyd]

Now I see why I left this thread alone...

The adults took it over o_o

I will attempt to dive back into this thread...

For those willing to learn, there are some willing to teach. We are fortunate to have so many that are willing to teach. We need more that are just as willing, if not more, to learn.

Come on back and learn. I have even learned a thing or two.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

Any new trivia questions?

And to answer Eyeball's question:

He was the first Assisstant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs, and published an article titled Women Can't Fight.

[wukong]

I would not expect a reply from Hairy.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

I would not expect a reply from Hairy.

Hey, I'm a cadidiot. My job is to just carry on as usual while the adults fight it out upstairs.

[wukong]

Wise choice. The is a saying, when elephants fight the grass gets bruised.

[Billyd]

Thanks to TruBlu's response in this thread http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/showthread.php?p=20687#post20687, I have come up with my next question. While not strictly a military trivia question, at some point, you will wonder what the order of succession of the Presidency of the United States is.

So, by the Constitution of the United State, the Order of Succession for the Presidency is:

President
Vice President
Speaker of the House
President Pro Tempore of the Senate
Who, by Office is next and why?


And for our new members and guests, please remember the two hour rule prior to posting an answer.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

I really... really... really hate that two hour rule...

[flyBoy2010]

Same here...already have the answer to both parts.

[TruBlu]

I feel a swath of 'trivial' (hardly) civil questions will rain our way. Lets see if a new guy can swat you two down on the two-hour rule. Watch the seconds lol, this one is going to be tight!

[Stryfe]

Content removed due to two hour rule. Try again after 12:18 AM EDT.

[TruBlu]

LOL, DENIED!!! Guess you didn't catch this:

And for our new members and guests, please remember the two hour rule prior to posting an answer.

Or this:

I really... really... really hate that two hour rule...

Or this:

Same here...already have the answer to both parts.

Or this:

I feel a swath of 'trivial' (hardly) civil questions will rain our way. Lets see if a new guy can swat you two down on the two-hour rule. Watch the seconds lol, this one is going to be tight!

I'm just pulling your leg, but dang man, that takes some stu... err guts, to post up an answer with so many fore-warnings as to the immanent doom you would face. ;)

[Stryfe]

I thought the 2 hour rule was you could only make one post every 2 hours....gotta read more thoroughly next time...

[armysc_25b]

Funny part is I'll be up all night (stupid MID shifts at work...), so I can sit here and red-pen all night should I so desire :devil:

I now return you to your regularly scheduled two-hour wait period "I got it" comments...

[TruBlu]

Funny part is I'll be up all night (stupid MID shifts at work...), so I can sit here and red-pen all night should I so desire :devil:

I now return you to your regularly scheduled two-hour wait period "I got it" comments...

The board is going to look like a blood bath once 25B gets done with it lol!!!

Err, *area reserved for when I get it...* :D

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

It's going to be a battle of who can hit the "submit reply" button the fastest at 12:18 EST. XD

[flyBoy2010]

This is going to be interesting...lol :)

[Billyd]

WOW! Didn't realize that you all were so hungry for trivia! Ready, Set, wait for it........

[flyBoy2010]

Secretary of State

Why:
“... history shows that
senior cabinet officers such as the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense are generally more likely to be better suited to the exercise of presidential duties than legislative officers. The President pro tempore, traditionally the senior member of the party in control of the Senate, may be particularly ill-suited to the exercise ofpresidential duties due to reasons of health and age.”

http://lieberman.senate.gov/documents/crs/presidentialsuccession.pdf
See page 26: "Table 3. The Order of Presidential Succession (under the Succession Act of 1947)"
and page 12: "Efficient Conduct of the Presidency"

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

Next in line is Secretary of State (in this case, Hillary Clinton). Why? Well, back in the day (1792), Congress passed the Presidential Succession Act. Its passage was tough (both the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists wanted a say in it), and the Federalists didn't want Thomas Jefferson (our first Secretary of State) to become third in line for the succession, since he was an Anti-Federalist. So, since both camps were wary of the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, both ended up in line before the Secretary of State.

Strange fact - President Pro Tempore of the Senate came before the Speaker of the House until 1886, when they were removed from the line (making the Secretary of State first following the Vice President), and they were re-added in reverse order (in comparison to the original) in 1947.

Full list:

President
Vice President (President of the Senate)
Speaker of the House of Representatives
President Pro Tempore of the Senate
Secretary of State
Secretary of the Treasury
Secretary of Defense
Attorney General
Secretary of the Interior
Secretary of Agriculture
Secretary of Commerce
Secretary of Labor
Secretary of Health and Human Services
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
Secretary of Transportation
Secretary of Energy
Secretary of Education
Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Secretary of Homeland Security

[TruBlu]

Just for kicks, I ran across this (http://lieberman.senate.gov/documents/crs/presidentialsuccession.pdf) when I was doing a little more 'in-depth' on this subject last night. I've only read a few pages of it, and skimmed the whole thing, but it should prove an interesting read for anyone interested.

So it looks like flyboy got it, but it would be interesting to see how many seconds were in-between the "submit" key strokes. Did both of you had your responses already drafted in notepad or word? :p

[flyBoy2010]

Just for kicks, I ran across this (http://lieberman.senate.gov/documents/crs/presidentialsuccession.pdf) when I was doing a little more 'in-depth' on this subject last night.

That's the same link I used as my source! lol
So it looks like flyboy got it, but it would be interesting to see how many seconds were in-between the "submit" key strokes. Did both of you had your responses already drafted in notepad or word? :p

I don't know, I guess I got my answer in first, but I think Buff's answer about why is better than mine. We'll see once Billyd gets back on!!

[Billyd]

Looks like a couple of you have been paying attention. You both provided correct responses as to who was next in the line of succession. And Buffa1oso1di3r saw fit to include the complete list.

That brings us to the why of the question. And while both of you provide excellent reasoning, Buffa1oso1di3r provides the actual legislation that makes it so (though a link would be nice).

Therefore, your humble trivia master must declare this one a tie. Flyboy for the answer of who is next, and Buffa1oso1di3r for providing the appropriate legislation. Good job to you both.

I shall return later with another question after I consume my morning coffee.


BTW Flyboy and TruBlu good find on that paper. Very informative.

[TruBlu]

LOL, the first tie in the "Trivia Time!" thread since its birth! You two should be proud. :D

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

Lol!!! I had my post drafted in the forum at like... 10:14 MST, and as soon as my computer's clock hit 10:18, I clicked the "Submit Reply" button! Then, next thing I see is flyboy's post above me, and I was like: "NOOO!!!!"

[flyBoy2010]

Well next time I guess you just have to click a little faster, huh? ;)

That's pretty cool, I have never seen a tie before.

[wukong]

While BillyD is consuming mass quantities of coffee: What German Luftwaffe officer played a significant part in the Berlin Airlift? What did he do?

[flyBoy2010]

Maj. Gen. Hans Detlev von Rohden

He translated aircraft maintenance manuals into German, recruited top German mechanics and started a mechanics school to train them on the C-54.

Source: http://www.historynet.com/berlin-airlift-operation-vittles.htm

[TruBlu]

Look at Flyboy watching the clock lol. ;)

[wukong]

Maj. Gen. Hans Detlev von Rohden

He translated aircraft maintenance manuals into German, recruited top German mechanics and started a mechanics school to train them on the C-54.

Source: http://www.historynet.com/berlin-airlift-operation-vittles.htm

Spot on!

Mobile snack bars tended by some of the most beautiful girls in Berlin would move to the side of each plane.

This is a global problem experience by all that fly. You find a reason to go some where and the next thing you know some Lt has married the scenery.

[Drill for life]

I'm just waiting for a question that isn't about flying.

[armysc_25b]

When I post questions, mine typically aren't about flying, but they're worded in a way that makes you have to think about it. Speaking of posting questions...

Speaking strictly Army here; after WW1, Congress did a reorganization of the NCO ranks. What ranks were established because of this? As well, how many different skills were there that would add to a Soldier's pay, and how much did having those skills add?

Your two hour wait period... start's now.

[wukong]

I'm just waiting for a question that isn't about flying.

Are there any?

[armysc_25b]

Are there any?
Contrary to popular belief (or one's misconceptions), there is more to the military than flying, Sir.

[wukong]

Put on your humor hat and read it again.:D

[armysc_25b]

Put on your humor hat and read it again.:D
I think I get it

[wukong]

I'm just waiting for a question that isn't about flying.

To clear the air both I and Javalin66 have come here to visit. My "barrel chested" airborne infantryman did not get much response. None of us will probably go too far out of our areas of expertise.

[Drill for life]

1919. Prior to 1919, the insignia of private first class consisted of the insignia of the branch of service without any arcs or chevrons. The Secretary of War approved "an arc of one bar" for privates first class on 22 July 1919.

1920. The number of insignia was reduced to seven and six pay grades were established. War Department Circular No. 303, dated 5 August 1920, stated the chevrons would be worn on the left sleeve, point up, and to be made of olive drab material on a background of dark blue. The designs and titles were as follows:

Master Sergeant (First Grade): Three chevrons, and an arc of three bars, the upper bar of arc forming a tie to the lower chevron.

Technical Sergeant (Second Grade): Three chevrons, and an arc of two bars, the upper bar of arc forming a tie to the lower chevron.

First Sergeant (Second Grade): Three chevrons, and an arc of two bars, the upper bar of arc forming a tie to the lower chevron. In the angle between lower chevron and upper bar a lozenge.

Staff Sergeant (Third Grade): Three chevrons and an arc of one bar, forming a tie to the lower chevron.

Sergeant (Fourth Grade): Three chevrons.

Corporal (Fifth Grade): Two chevrons.

Privates First Class (Sixth Grade): One chevron.

1942. The grades of Technician in the third, fourth and fifth grades were added by War Department Circular No. 5, dated 8 January 1942. Change 1 to AR 600-35, dated 4 September 1942, added a letter "T" to the formerly prescribed chevrons for grades three, four and five.

The first sergeant was moved from the second grade to the first grade per Change 3, AR 600-35, dated 22 September 1942. This change described the first sergeant’s chevron as - - Three chevrons and arc of three bars, the upper bar of arc forming a tie to the lower chevron. In the angel between lower chevrons and upper bar, a hollow lozenge. This change also included the material as khaki chevrons, arcs, T, and lozenge on dark blue cotton background or olive-drab wool chevrons, arcs, T, and lozenge on dark blue wool backgrounds.




Armysc_25b, here is my guess to your question.

[armysc_25b]

Partial credit.

[Javelin66]

Alright, some non-flying questions, posed in the form of a vignette:

You are a brigade adjutant, setting up for the dedication of a memorial on post. Units represented are your brigade, one of the battalions of a regiment that fought in Korea, and an engineer group. In which order should the various flags be placed?

On top of that, the guest of honor is one of the ADCs, a regular Army MG. The protocol office brings by a maroon flag with 2 stars. Is there a problem?

Just as everything is about to begin, one of your LTs comes in with a question. It seems that a Medal of Honor recipient, a retired NCO, will be attending. Is everyone required by regulation to salute him regardless of rank?

[Javelin66]

What is the deal- my brother (one of the fallen angels of the Air Force) told me that you troops were clamoring for a non-flying question.

Here's a hint: Who commands a seperate brigade vice a regiment?

[armysc_25b]

I'll give the cadets a little longer to bite before I "steal" this one. I got 2 of the 3 answers, just need to research the 3rd to ensure I get the right information.

[armysc_25b]

OK, since nobody's bitten, I'm taking two. Still looking for the third.

You are a brigade adjutant, setting up for the dedication of a memorial on post. Units represented are your brigade, one of the battalions of a regiment that fought in Korea, and an engineer group. In which order should the various flags be placed?

Still looking for this answer. Maybe I'm over-thinking this though.

On top of that, the guest of honor is one of the ADCs, a regular Army MG. The protocol office brings by a maroon flag with 2 stars. Is there a problem?

First off, I thought an ADC was a BG, not a MG. Looking over that, the issue with the maroon flag is that it is used for retired general officers. A red flag with 2 stars is appropriate for this MG, as well as the tounge-lashing that will certainly follow this event for personnel in the protocol office.

Just as everything is about to begin, one of your LTs comes in with a question. It seems that a Medal of Honor recipient, a retired NCO, will be attending. Is everyone required by regulation to salute him regardless of rank?

All personnel who have been awarded the Medal of Honor are saluted, regardless of rank, and are saluted before saluting non-recipients of the award.

[C/ZOOMIE]

Where'd the Thrid Watch question go? Answer: Bosco and Fred we're competing to win a truck.

[TruBlu]

Where'd the Thrid Watch question go? Answer: Bosco and Fred we're competing to win a truck.

Only the adult mods ask questions.

[Billyd]

Only the adult mods ask questions.

Not true. However, the questions asked MUST have something to due with military heritage.

Now, this one will be tough. The picture below was taken at the base I work on. And we all know that the aircraft in the middle is an F-15C. Your quest, should you choose to accept it, is to identify the two aircraft in formation with the jet.

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/picture.php?albumid=67&pictureid=561

And just for fun, what can you tell me about the aircraft in question.

Remember there is a two hour wait prior to answers being accepted. Have fun.

[AFCadetSteel]

Not true. However, the questions asked MUST have something to due with military heritage.

Now, this one will be tough. The picture below was taken at the base I work on. And we all know that the aircraft in the middle is an F-15C. Your quest, should you choose to accept it, is to identify the two aircraft in formation with the jet.

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/picture.php?albumid=67&pictureid=561

And just for fun, what can you tell me about the aircraft in question.

Remember there is a two hour wait prior to answers being accepted. Have fun.

P-47 Thunderbolt?

All I can tell from the bottom design.

Correct me if i'm wrong but, max speed is around 450 mph , and it was the most produced plane during WW2.

[devin0116]

My guess was a P-51.

[Billyd]

Seems devin0116 knows his aircraft. Yes indeed, those are P-51 flying in formation with the F-15. This formation flew over Eglin AFB on May 1.

So, if you know any fun facts about the Mustang, post away.

I'll be back later with another question.

[devin0116]

Seems devin0116 knows his aircraft. Yes indeed, those are P-51 flying in formation with the F-15. This formation flew over Eglin AFB on May 1.

And who said video games don't teach you anything?


The Mustang's reputation was such that, in the mid-1960s, Ford Motor Company's Designer John Najjar proposed the name for a new youth-oriented coupe automobile after the fighter.

Countries who used the Mustang during and after the war:
Argentina
Australia
Bolivia
Canada
China
Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
France
Germany
Guatemala
Haiti
Honduras
Indonesia
Israel
Italy
Japan
Netherlands
Nicaragua
New Zealand
Poland
Somalia
South Africa
Soviet Union
Sweden
Uruguay
Venezuela
United Kingdom

[wukong]

What is the thing pictured below and how does the Navy use it?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/carrabellefl/blu-120-1.jpg

[wukong]

Countries who used the Mustang during and after the war:
Argentina
Australia
Bolivia
Canada
China
Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
France
Germany
Guatemala
Haiti
Honduras
Indonesia
Israel
Italy
Japan
Netherlands
Nicaragua
New Zealand
Poland
Somalia
South Africa
Soviet Union
Sweden
Uruguay
Venezuela
United Kingdom

FWIW. ON February 13, 1973 I flew into Halim Airport at Jakarta on an Embassy run and as we taxied to the ramp a 4-ship of P-51s taxied to take-off.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

What is the thing pictured below and how does the Navy use it?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/carrabellefl/blu-120-1.jpg


That's a MOAB... and I don't believe the Navy uses it... the Air Force does, and they drop it out the back of C-130s... it has never been used in combat.

[wukong]

That's a MOAB... and I don't believe the Navy uses it... the Air Force does, and they drop it out the back of C-130s... it has never been used in combat.

You are correct. It is a GBU-43 the successor to the BLU-82. I mentioned the Navy as a red herring.

The bomb is extracted from a C-series aircraft exactly as any airdrop platform load.

_Ea-DinsBJQ

qI_YEICyIS0

What is the width of the Type V airdrop platform that the GBU-43 rests upon? What extraction parachute is used in the first video?

[wukong]

Hint:

What extraction parachute is used in the first video?

Examine the chute at 6 seconds.

[wukong]

I ask AF stuff and you folks are all over it. I ask Army and Marine Corp stuff and all is quiet. What gives? Aerial delivery platforms and cargo parachutes are user (US Army Quartermasters, USMC Aerial Delivery) stuff, rigging does not belong to the Air Force.:mad:

[armysc_25b]

I ask AF stuff and you folks are all over it. I ask Army and Marine Corp stuff and all is quiet. What gives? Aerial delivery platforms and cargo parachutes are user (US Army Quartermasters, USMC Aerial Delivery) stuff, rigging does not belong to the Air Force.:mad:
People seem to know more about the Air Force questions than those of the other services, or seem to find them easier to find answers to? I've almost had to beg for answers to questions I've posed, and I think there may be one or two that slipped through the cracks at some point.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

I think the reason why is because... there seems to be a large majority of Air Force Cadets on the site, and in my Army JROTC Program, we don't do Army History. I have to do my own research on the subjects, and some parts of the Army and Marine Corps questions are rather... concealed.

Also, it seemed that the adults seemed to jump on the Army and Marine Corps questions before I even got to see the thread... it's strange.

[wukong]

I think the reason why is because... there seems to be a large majority of Air Force Cadets on the site, and in my Army JROTC Program, we don't do Army History. I have to do my own research on the subjects, and some parts of the Army and Marine Corps questions are rather... concealed.

Also, it seemed that the adults seemed to jump on the Army and Marine Corps questions before I even got to see the thread... it's strange.

Bull $hit! A simple search for "air drop platform" and third hit is:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/4-20-102/fm4-20-102.pdf

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

Bull $hit! A simple search for "air drop platform" and third hit is:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/4-20-102/fm4-20-102.pdf

Either that or I haven't been around in a few days...

EDIT -- Woah, a follow-up question? Did not see that...

[wukong]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...fm4-20-102.pdf

Table 2-1 page 17 of 158

Platform width is 108 inches. FWIW all standard 463-L cargo pallets are 108 X 88 inches.

Table 2-7. page 43 of 158

The GBU-43 is a 21,500 lb bomb so extraction range 16,000 to 30,000 lbs would require one (1) 28-foot-diameter, flat circular, ring-slot nylon canopy.

dgg3iRaVnbw

This video is a M551 extracted by three (3) 28 foot ring slotted chutes. Notice that the ring slotted chute does not oscillate.

[wukong]

This appears to be an all Marine Corp operation

NH_gjJdvweU

What airdrop system is being employed and what parachute is probably being used?

[wukong]

Hint: The cargo parachutes are not ring slot!

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

My guess is...

The Joint Precision Air Drop System (JPADS)...

And the parachute is... the G-12 Cargo Parachute.

[wukong]

Ol_Ff_0Xjtg&feature

If you watch at about 35 to 40 seconds you will see a small ring slot parachute that is used for a High Velocity Container Delivery System (CDS) bundle.

At about 1 min 30 seconds the bundles have square parachutes that are steerable and to my knowledge are JPADS. This system is well after my time in active service.

You are correct in identifying the G-12 as the parachute. Given this information what is the system in the Marine video?

[Billyd]

I see that none have come up with that answer for wukong's question. Have we all slipped due to recent events and school being out? While you continue to ponder wukong's inquiry, I will pose this one to you.

While not military in nature, I found it interesting enough to share with you.

What system of measurement came about as a result of a fraternity prank? For extra credit, name the fraternity, the school (hint Ivy League), and what was measured.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

I already know! >_<

[Billyd]

Two hour wait :devil:

[C/ZOOMIE]

The "Smoot" by Lambda Chi Alpha at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology..

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

They measured the Harvard Bridge with the smoot.

A "smoot" is a unit of measurement named after Oliver Smoot, a fraternity pledge to the Lambada Chi Alpha fraternity. A smoot is about five feet, seven inches.

[Billyd]

Well done, both of you. C/Zoomie, while I can see the time you edited your, and I had seen your prior post, in this thread, please go ahead and make a new post when posting an answer. Double taps are OK in this thread.

Now that we know the unit of measurement and where it was first used, and by whom. What interesting thing can you come up with about Mr. Smoot? I am looking for a specific answer here, so fire away. I am waiving the Two-Hour rule for this one.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

Whoops, that was his cousin. >_<

[TruBlu]

Whoops, that was his cousin. >_<

Don't make the same with yours!!! Couldn't resist...

[wukong]

If you watch at about 35 to 40 seconds you will see a small ring slot parachute that is used for a High Velocity Container Delivery System (CDS) bundle.


How about Low Velocity Container Delivery System!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wukong]

Next question. Did any personnel parachute into Khe Sanh during the siege and if so from what unit?

[wukong]

http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps1786/cdsppf.html

In Vietnam at Khe Sanh, US troops received supplies by airdrop in the 1960s. A lieutenant from the 109th Quartermaster Supply Company parachuted into Khe Sanh to assist in the aerial resupply mission. For days, he lived side by side with the besieged Marines and coordinated for airdrop missions supporting the encircled US forces. More than 8,000 tons of critical supplies were airdropped during a 78-day period in 1967. Even a case of eggs survived airdrop undamaged. During Khe Sanh, the most prevalent drop altitude was about 10,000 feet AGL, using A-22 containers with 26-foot high-velocity parachutes. This improved accuracy and provided aircraft security from small arms fire.

http://www103.pair.com/adsd/riggers/risks/index.html

Page 2: "Though prepared to parachute into Khe Shah, it was not necessary and we were able to land there the day following receipt of the approval to go."

Both of these documents deal with the combat activities of the 109th Quartermaster Supply Company (USA) and detail the immense effort required by Army and Marine aerial delivery units in both load preparation and recovery in support of combat operations. I would venture to guess based on these documents that there were no personnel drops into Khe Sanh.

[wukong]

On December 7, 1941 an event occurred that made world history that we are all aware. On December 7, 1950 an event occurred that allowed the US Marine Corp to write a glorious chapter of that service's history. What was the US Air Force's role in that event, where did it occur and what AF unit is cited for that combat action?

[wukong]

Would anyone be suprised if it was an airdrop?

[JohnP]

Would anyone be suprised if it was an airdrop?


Oh, oh, oh, Mr. Wukong, sir, oh, oh, oh, pick me, pick me! (Picture the bearded ex-zoomie wearing a funny looking beret, waving his hand frantically and jumping up and down in the back of the class-room.)

[wukong]

Oh, oh, oh, Mr. Wukong, sir, oh, oh, oh, pick me, pick me! (Picture the bearded ex-zoomie wearing a funny looking beret, waving his hand frantically and jumping up and down in the back of the class-room.)

I have no control over participants in this trivia quest.

[JohnP]

I have no control over participants in this trivia quest.


It's amazing, my wife says the same thing about me! :D


December 7: FEAF B-29s bombed North Korean towns in the Changjin Reservoir area to relieve enemy pressure on U.S. Marine and Army units attempting to break out from Hagaru-Ri and Koto-Ri. Troops in those two locations finally linked and built crude airstrips that allowed FEAF Combat Cargo Command airplanes to land food and ammunition and to evacuate casualties. Eight C-119s dropped bridge spans to the surrounded U.S. troops so that they could cross a 1,500-foot-deep gorge to break the enemy encirclement. This was the first air-dropped bridge in history of warfare.

That would've been interesting to watch.

For the record, this took some research. Do you happen to know which Air Force units were involved? (Not a trivia question; I don't have the answer; I just would like to research the units.)

[wukong]

http://www.littlerock.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123146064

As a bit of chatter. For Team Spirit 88, I tried to organize the rigging and airdrop of a bridge that was owned by the 3d FSSG. We had C-141s that bed down at Kadena AB that were chopped to CincCFC as tactical players. The reason that the project fell thru is that the USMC bridge did not have rigging procedures and III MEF did not wish to pursue the problem to Hq USMC and have the Army certify a procedure for the bridge. I guess the Marine Corp's continued plan for emergency airlift support is to "borrow" what ever is necessary from the 18th Airborne Corp or one of the Airborne Brigades. I alway break out with a smile when I hear Marines pontificate how they stand alone and must have organic capabilities as they cannot depend upon the other services.

[JohnP]

http://www.littlerock.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123146064

As a bit of chatter. For Team Spirit 88, I tried to organize the rigging and airdrop of a bridge that was owned by the 3d FSSG. We had C-141s that bed down at Kadena AB that were chopped to CincCFC as tactical players. The reason that the project fell thru is that the USMC bridge did not have rigging procedures and III MEF did not wish to pursue the problem to Hq USMC and have the Army certify a procedure for the bridge. I guess the Marine Corp's continued plan for emergency airlift support is to "borrow" what ever is necessary from the 18th Airborne Corp or one of the Airborne Brigades. I alway break out with a smile when I hear Marines pontificate how they stand alone and must have organic capabilities as they cannot depend upon the other services.



Thank you Wukong for the background; I, too get a self-righteous smile when I remember the times the Air Force has supported Marines because the don’t have organic forces available.

[wukong]

OK and Army question for a change. What active Regiment conducted both forms of expeditionary warfare in WWII?

[wukong]

OK padwans, since wukong does not stray to far from what he knows best, let's have a hint with a question. What is considered expeditionary warfare?

[wukong]

Looks like old wukong is back at pulling teeth once more. Perhaps the subject of warfare is too trivial for our future Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeditionary_warfare

Expeditionary warfare is used to describe the organization of a nation's military to fight abroad, especially when deployed to fight away from its established bases at home or abroad. Expeditionary Forces were in part the antecedent of the modern concept of Rapid Deployment Forces, however traditionally Expeditionary Forces were essentially self sustaining with an organic logistics capability and with a full gamut of supporting arms.


As in the term Marine Expeditionary Brigade (MEB).

[wukong]

"For those who are interested," says wukong, as he looks into a mirror. The two forms of expeditionary warfare are, (bugles blaring) amphibious and airborne.:sleepy:

[wukong]

Five days and not a single nibble. The answer is::::: 503 PIR. This unit is the core of the 173 Abn Brigade.

Enough of the useful trivia, now the useless.

What does Capt Louis Nixon (Band of Brothers) and BGen Savage (Twelve O'Clock High) have in common?

[wukong]

They both use VAT 69 for sippin" whiskey. I guess I'll stop playing this game by myself. Zai Jian!!!!!!