Navy SEALs?

[JROTCdudett]

Haha can I really sue the U.S Navy if I wanted to be a Navy SEAL? I'm not going to but it's just a qestion and many of my friends say so. Well the Navy recuitors were at my school yesterday and I saw a brochure to be a Navy SEAL and I read the fine print it said "By law, you must be a male to qualify" What would happen if I really became the first women to be a Navy SEAL? Haha that would probably be amazing! Opinions?

[mtnsldr]

I would have just said "useless" but the forum said that post would be too short.

[JROTCdudett]

Haha, I see well Marine Corps is my thing Navy SEALs just an option.:drill:

[Des]

What is it with people that want and think that they'll get to be an Airborne Scuba Sniper right off the bat?

I remember working recruiting, and having applicants come in, thinking they were going to get to be JTF-2 6 months after joining.

You have to learn to crawl before you can walk, and then you learn to run. And MAYBE after that, you'll be a competitor.

Spec Ops standards are always a good goal to strive for, it isn't all raspberries and cream to get there.

[pingjocky]

Navy SEALs just an option.

Not if you're female.

R/
Pingjocky

[mtnsldr]

Not if you're female.

R/
Pingjocky

Not even if you're a male with that attitude. Its like its their "backup school" or something...

[FeelinFroggy]

The training isn't available to women. And in all honesty, I couldn't see a woman on earth complete it. Just my opinion.

Wanting to become a SEAL can not be just an "option". You have to want it. Want it BAD. Attitudes like yours are for people who will NEVER pin on my Trident.

Let me guess, you watched G.I. Jane and it tickled your fancy, didn't it?

[Drill for life]

What is it with people that want and think that they'll get to be an Airborne Scuba Sniper right off the bat?

I remember working recruiting, and having applicants come in, thinking they were going to get to be JTF-2 6 months after joining.

You have to learn to crawl before you can walk, and then you learn to run. And MAYBE after that, you'll be a competitor.

Spec Ops standards are always a good goal to strive for, it isn't all raspberries and cream to get there.

Des is right, I do have that problem to, I think I'm going to Marine MARSOC. My friend was guaranteed Airborne school but you know what he didn't get to go. He has to wait to go through his unit. JROTCdudett females can't be in a combat position, if you want to tickle your fantasy of Female's in combat read a book called Amazonia by James Brady, It has a Female ranger. I think you'll like it.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

I had that problem... then I took a step back, and realized:

"If anything, I probably won't make it."

Heck, even expecting to be a Marine is slightly a stretch for me, but I'm working towards it. To get anything in this world, you have to work for it... it just doesn't fall into your lap...

[Drill for life]

I had that problem... then I took a step back, and realized:

"If anything, I probably won't make it."

Heck, even expecting to be a Marine is slightly a stretch for me, but I'm working towards it. To get anything in this world, you have to work for it... it just doesn't fall into your lap...

Your right, to be a Marine you have to want it more than everything else. My recruiter told me it goes way beyond that also, you haveto change everything and conform to the Corps. He told me It's like woeing a woman"You have to put everything into it to get into it:D" hahaha. I love that saying. It's true(for both things). Just believe in yourself, I believe in you.

[PhoenixCadet]

Haha can I really sue the U.S Navy if I wanted to be a Navy SEAL? I'm not going to but it's just a qestion and many of my friends say so.

You'd be laughed out of the courtroom in less time than it takes for a heart to beat.

[Drill for life]

You'd be laughed out of the courtroom in less time than it takes for a heart to beat.

That is hilarious PhoenixCadet. She certainly would, but not before doing PT with the Courtroom Chief.:D I will say this again, females cannot hold a combat position. The closet thing they can get to combat is Medic and MP.

[Billyd]

The closet thing they can get to combat is Medic and MP.

You may want to re-think that statement. We currently have women serving in aircrews and serving in combat zones drawing hostile fire pay. While certain career fields are closed to them, they are most definitely serving in combat.

[Drill for life]

Removed for failure to take the time to ensure the spelling & grammar in this post is correct.

[PhoenixCadet]

Women play the most important role in the military, Medical. If you get injured and you go the the base hospital and there are no Female Doctors.

Are you trying to say that men don't play the medical role, as well?

[TruBlu]

My bad I totally for got about Combat Aircrew. Women play the most important role in the military, Medical. If you get injured and you go the the base hospital and there are no Female Doctors.
Here is a link to one of the most influential women of all-time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_A._Bernatitus
She was the first person who was awarded the Legion of merit. There have been gret women who served in the military, Claudine Kennedy,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Kennedy
Here is a great Female Marine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_A._Mutter
Ann E. Dunwoody is going to be the first Female Four-star general and meybe even Vice Chief of staff,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_E._Dunwoody
She is in fact getting promoted on November 14 2008.

Just a word to the wise, Wikipedia is never a good source. If at all possible, try to find other sources even if the information may be correct. The reason its not a good source is that it can be written by anyone at any time, there for lacking credibility. I'm not saying your information is wrong, in fact I use Wiki a lot, but not alone.

[Drill for life]

Removed for failure to take the time to ensure the spelling & grammar in this post is correct.

[PhilK]

When you think about the Army Medical Corps you think about the Army Nurse Corps and most nurses are female,I'm not trying to say all nurses are women.

Actually, for those of us who have served, I would say the first medical people we think of are medics.

Like this guy: http://www.military.com/news/article/already-in-hell-he-just-kept-going.html?col=1186032369115

And of course the whole notion of women not in combat is rather humerous given our non-linear battlefield these days. Of course, you could always tell this NCO that she wasn't in combat: http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,SS_061705_Silverstar,00.html

Think before you post.

[FeelinFroggy]

Jrotcdudett wpmen play a very important role in the military but that doesn't mean females can attend BDU/S. BDUs are something you wear.

Basic Underwater Demolition/Seal Training (BUD/S).

[Armed Drill Addict]

Drillforlife, considering you want to be a Marine i'm surprised that the first mediacal personel that come to mind aren't corpsman. When I think of corpsman, more than often I think of males in that position more than women. (No offense to anyone)

[Drill for life]

Armed Drill Addict we are talking about women in combat situations. There are women corpsman, but they aren't in the Fleet Marine Force, which means they aren't assigned to a Marine Unit.

[PhoenixCadet]

There are women corpsman, but they aren't in the fleet Marine Force, which means they aren't assigned to a Marine Unit.

Wrong.

Female corpsmen (the plural form) can be assigned to the FMF; they just won't be assigned to any of the combat elements of the FMF.

My source is a thread answered previously over on the Marine section of Military.com. See here (http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/32194222/m/4220069441001).

You've been told many a time - if you don't have the concrete facts, don't give the information, because it'll most-likely be false.

[mtnsldr]

Please see my advice from the "Oh My God" thread.

[JROTCdudett]

Like wow I was on one topic and it all just blew up into five different branches of topics....

[El Supremo]

That is hilarious PhoenixCadet. She certainly would, but not before doing PT with the Courtroom Chief.:D I will say this again, females cannot hold a combat position. The closet thing they can get to combat is Medic and MP.

You left out, that they may also be aviators as well.

[PhoenixCadet]

You left out, that they may also be aviators as well.

Definitely so - I was just referring to things closest to ground combat. Thanks for pointing that out, though!

[Drill for life]

I totally forget Aviators.

[mrkltmn]

I'm going to have to agree with the notes from a couple of the Petty Officers on the thread. Women won't be in the SEALs for a long time, if ever. Try to be the best you can be and don't give up, but no suing the US Navy will just make you look like an idiot. My suggestion is don't listen to your high school buddies. They're usually relying on what a teacher told them, and what they don't know is that the teacher didn't have the time to give them the whole story.

[mrkltmn]

I totally forget Aviators.

How could you forget AVIATORS!?!?!? We're only God's gift to the Earth!!!! lol jk

[SlightlyCatholic]

We're only God's gift to the Earth!!!! lol jk

Are you already designated as a Pilot or NFO? I didn't realize NROTC designated 4/c Midshipmen for Officer Communities. Does community designation vary from unit to unit?

[mrkltmn]

Are you already designated as a Pilot or NFO? I didn't realize NROTC designated 4/c Midshipmen for Officer Communities. Does community designation vary from unit to unit?

No, designation is the same from unit to unit, and I am a 4/C. I'm going to an Aeronautical school with a record for 100% of Midshipmen who want Pilot go Pilot since the Battalion foundation. When I said we I meant they I was talking to about eight people at once and got distracted. I apologize.

[SlightlyCatholic]

No big deal, I was just confused because I didn't think cadets were assigned to Officer Communities so early. Thanks for educating me on that!

[Saint Marc]

Dudett,
I think your comments and attitude are insulting to the Navy SEAL teams and the members of those teams. Being a SEAL isn't a womans game and the missions they are assigned have zero room for affirmative action strap hanger billets to satisfy some political femminist agenda.

Secondly to the man talking about women in the FMF. My Last FMF deployment I returned in October 1996 and will tell you I saw 2 women total in the ARG, both Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Freek Shows serving on the Tarawa as nurses. Both were useless even at their jobs. When I returned to Horno I saw a few weeks later a female Corpsman humping with Regiment, they were trying her out from the hospital, she didn't make their hump I later heard and went back to the hospital.

Women are not force multipliers, and I was in when all this girls in combat crap was being entertained.

Lets look at some recent history of women in combat rolls.

1. Karen Hulthgreen was pushed through flight school though she was failing by none other than Sen. John Idiot McCain and as a result crashed into the sea taking her navagator with her. Both dead.

2. Jessica What's her face.... Lynch. Ends up shutting down in an ambush while other wounded troops engage and die in the battle. She lays in a bed while the media talks about what a badass she was stealing the valor and deeds of a male cook NCO Sgt. Donald Walters who fought to the last before surrendering. On the resque of Lynch the Fedaheym took Walters to a courtyard and executed him. Google it.

3. Col. Karpenski was in charge of a prison in Iraq where femminist sexually tortured men and male soldiers with questionable gender identity followed suit. Karpenski says she didn't have a clue, I say bs. I also ask why did she not know? Do generals not inspect their commands anymore?

4. Maj. Jill Metzger takes off AWOL on a combat deployment and gets knocked up, has abortion and makes up lies about being a Taliban POW. You go girl!

To me having women in our military has become a jobs program. A place to put single mothers so they can be babysat and given a check. It's just plain stupid. And I hope we get into a real ground war with a real army like NK to prove my points. When NK troops are choking female troops to death with their bare hands maybe the agenda will stop.
Women in the military are only politically neccessary, not mission neccessary at all.


Again, your comments are insulting and your attitude is poor. Your JROTC instructor is probably an idiot.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Marc, what are your thoughts about General Ann Dunwoody?

[Saint Marc]

Looks like another political promotion rabbi.
What a bullshit degree too.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Looks like another political promotion rabbi.

I assume you're talking to me...

Where's the evidence of political motives? Why can't she just be promoted for doing a good job? And what degree are you referring to?

[Saint Marc]

Physical Education? 4 Stars for logistics? anyway who cares? The whole rotten system will collapse as soon as we face an enemy we have no choice but to face.

[Frog]

Females can not be SEALs unless Congress changes the law. However, they can fly fighter aircraft. A fellow Navy officer and friend became the first female FA-18 Commanding Officer 2 years ago.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/20090525.aspx

Futher info:

The Squadron Commander Is A Lady
May 25, 2009: Britain is sending its first female fighter squadron commander (of 31 Squadron), RAF Squadron Leader Elle Hillard, to Afghanistan. A Squadron Leader is the equivalent of of a USAF Major. Two years ago, a U.S. Navy F-18 pilot, Commander (equivalent of a USAF Lieutenant Colonel) Sara Joyner, completed her tour as the first female commander of a navy combat squadron (VFA 105). This included a seven month cruise to the Persian Gulf aboard the USS Harry S. Truman. Like Hillard, both women are also married to military pilots. Joyner entered the military in the 1980s, Hillard, a decade later. Twelve of the 708 Tornado and Eurofighter pilots in the Royal Air Force are women.
Noting the success of female military pilots in the United States over the last three decades, an increasing number of other countries are moving in that direction as well. The reason is simple, many of the women who go through flight training turn out to have better flying skills than the average male pilot. But the traditional fear of women getting killed in combat still plays a role. For example, India is at war with Islamic terrorists in Kashmir. While female police and government workers are at risk of injury from terrorist attack, that is not considered the same as the risk to female pilots flying in the area. So, bowing to real, or imagined, public opinion, the Indian Air Force quietly transferred female pilots who were in squadrons that flew into Kashmir or near the Pakistani border.

Earlier, the Indian armed forces conducted studies of women in combat, and concluded that there was no practical reason for keeping women from these duties. There are currently nearly 2,000 female officers in the Indian armed forces. Most are in the army, but 39 percent are in the air force, and over fifty of them are pilots. China recently had its first 16 female fighter pilots graduated from a 44 month course. The young lieutenants (age 21-24) are not the first female Chinese military pilots, as there were already 52 in service (flying non-combat aircraft) and another 545 in training.

India, and even Pakistan (which graduated its first female pilots in 2006) are having a hard time keeping male pilots in uniform. Too many of the men depart for more lucrative, and less stressful, careers as commercial pilots. Women may not be the solution. Currently, only about half of women officers stay in past their initial five year contract. Indian women, even military pilots, are under tremendous social and family pressure to marry. Those that do may still be pilots, but married women are under a lot of pressure to have children. The Indian Air Force provides its female officers with ten months leave for this, six months during pregnancy, and four months after delivery. The air force does this because pilots are very expensive to train. Fuel costs the same everywhere, as do spare parts. So what India may save in lower salaries, is not enough. A good pilot costs over half a million dollars for training expenses, and takes over five years. So the Indians are betting a lot of money, and time, on their female pilots. Many women are willing to take up the challenge. But they have already heard from their peers in Western air force, that motherhood and piloting can be a very exhausting combination.

Worldwide, women are increasingly part of the military. In many nations, over ten percent of military personnel are female. A century ago, it was under one percent (and most of those were nurses and other medical personnel.) More women are in uniform now because there aren't enough qualified men, especially for many of the technical jobs armed forces now have to deal with.

Islamic nations have higher illiteracy rates overall, and very high rates for women. These nations have a severe shortage of technically trained people. Those women that do get an education in Islamic cultures tend to be very bright and able. So there's a need, and a solution close at hand. But because of those religious restrictions, and the generally very macho attitudes in Islamic nations, there will never be as many women in uniform as are needed. This means that Islamic armed forces will continue to come up short when it comes to maintaining and using military technology. The future of military operations is more technology, so you can see where this is leading. No wonder Islamic radicals want to go back to the past. Unfortunately, the non-Moslem world is not inclined to join them. Taking a knife to a gun fight doesn't work.

[Remoah]

Over here in the ADF we (well not really we, im not in it just yet) dont allow women to enter direct combat roles, so that rules out all of Infantry, Armoured and Artillery Corps, as well as Combat Engineers. Thats not to say women dont see frontline duty, as Drivers, Pilots, Medics ect... its just that they're kept away from direct combat if possible.

Why? Because the male tendancy is to protect women. There is an issue with both fitness and other 'womens issues' that can be a problem in the field, However, they're both easy to deal with.

The thing is however, men are more likely to risk themselves and disregard orders to save or protect a female colleauge, and to the point that may put them or thier entire section in more danger, something the army can't have.

Whilst im sure there are female athletes who could give special forces a run for thier money on almost anything physical, it's just not feasable. And Companies and Employers can apply to the government to discriminate on employee selection for various reasons.

ADI, Tenix Defence and Thales have all applied to the Government and are allowed to discriminate against employees based on family ties, who they associate with, where they live, and even their religion or Country of Origin, all for security purposes.

[Bozz]

Drillforlife, considering you want to be a Marine i'm surprised that the first mediacal personel that come to mind aren't corpsman. When I think of corpsman, more than often I think of males in that position more than women. (No offense to anyone)

Appreciate that. I enlisted as an HM. Granted...I am taking my second PST for EOD on Wednesday because that is what I strive to be. But regardless...

On another note, here is what the MINIMUM requirements are to even stand a chance of STARTING SEAL training are:

~ 500 yard swim using breast- and/or sidestroke in under 12 minutes and 30 seconds (10 minutes and 20 seconds to be competitive)

~ MINIMUM of 42 push-ups in 2 minutes (65 to be competitive)

~ MINIMUM of 50 sit-ups in 2 minutes (90 to be competitive)

~ MINIMUM of 6 pull-ups (10 to be competitive)

~ Run 1.5 miles in boots and long pants in under 11 minutes and 30 seconds (9 minutes and 45 seconds to be competitive)

BE AWARE: PASSING THE SCREENING TEST IS JUST THE BEGINNING. PASSING DOESN'T GUARANTEE ACCEPTANCE INTO BUD/S.

And as for suing the Navy...may God grant mercy on your soul......

[C./Fields]

... here is what the MINIMUM requirements are to even stand a chance of STARTING SEAL training are:

~ 500 yard swim using breast- and/or sidestroke in under 12 minutes and 30 seconds (10 minutes and 20 seconds to be competitive)

~ MINIMUM of 42 push-ups in 2 minutes (65 to be competitive)

~ MINIMUM of 50 sit-ups in 2 minutes (90 to be competitive)

~ MINIMUM of 6 pull-ups (10 to be competitive)

~ Run 1.5 miles in boots and long pants in under 11 minutes and 30 seconds (9 minutes and 45 seconds to be competitive)

BE AWARE: PASSING THE SCREENING TEST IS JUST THE BEGINNING. PASSING DOESN'T GUARANTEE ACCEPTANCE INTO BUD/S.

And as for suing the Navy...may God grant mercy on your soul......

Fairly easy except for the swim one and possibly the run, but I bet BUD/S is a hell of a lot harder...if I was able to be competitive to these standards, what are the chances of branching SEALs from USNA (are there any other things I could do to be more competitive)?

[Bozz]

It's different at the academy. From what I understand, it is more of a "at the needs of the Navy" situation. A buddy of mine is at Annapolis and basically, he chose three FIELDS (not specific jobs) that he would LIKE to get assigned to. Up there it's all about class rank. The higher your GPA, the better chance you have of getting the job field you want.

Fields include:

- Marine Ground
- Marine Air
- ULO
- LDO
- NSW

etc...

Any Midshipmen have more intel? Not 100% sure what all of the fields are.

C./Fields - A Google search of USNA career fields or something along those lines could help with that.

As for easy...I wouldn't say that. Have you taken a NSWPST?

[PhoenixCadet]

It's different at the academy. From what I understand, it is more of a "at the needs of the Navy" situation. A buddy of mine is at Annapolis and basically, he chose three FIELDS (not specific jobs) that he would LIKE to get assigned to. Up there it's all about class rank. The higher your GPA, the better chance you have of getting the job field you want.

To my knowledge, it's the same for all branches in regard to "needs of the service", and being "career field" specific versus job specific. That's not a Navy (or USNA)-specific thing.

Fields include:

- Marine Ground
- Marine Air
- ULO
- LDO
- NSW

etc...

Any Midshipmen have more intel? Not 100% sure what all of the fields are.

A summary of Naval officer career fields can be found here:

https://www.nrotc.navy.mil/navy.aspx

ULO (Unrestricted Line Officer) and LDO (Limited Duty Officer) aren't "career fields", they're more of a status one holds in the Navy.

-PC

[-BuLL-]

Up there it's all about class rank. The higher your GPA, the better chance you have of getting the job field you want.


C/Fields, your class rank is determined by three areas a cadet is ranked on. Academically, Physically, and Militarily.

[Javelin66]

SPC Brown and SGT Hester might have something to say about women in combat. How many Silver Stars do you guys have? BTW, Lynch never claimed any of the things that the media reported- I am no fan of hers, but she is not a liar.

As far as SEAL training, like all SOF they are low density/high demand these days, but you still have to meet the minimums and be accepted into the program. Again, like all SOF, there is a selection process. Just meeting the minimums will not cut it. That said, one sure way to fail is to not try in the first place.

Part of the challenge of being any kind of 'elite' trooper- anything from being a paratrooper to SOF- is that you gotta want it. If you don't want it bad enough to go through whatever administrative/regulatory hoops you need to in order to get in the door, then you will probably quit on the first hard day (which is today).

Example: A personal friend of mine, a Marine Cobra pilot (and a major), found himself in staff jobs and out of the cockpit when the war started. Despite all his efforts, the Marines wouldn't put him back in a flying assignment. He resigned his commission and came in the Army as a warrant officer so he could fly in the 160th (the 'Nightstalkers'). This was a risk to his career (and his family, his wife almost divorced him), and he did it with no guarantee that he would get through selection and into the unit.

[C./Fields]

As for easy...I wouldn't say that. Have you taken a NSWPST?

What I meant was except for the swim (not that good a swimmer) and run (as far as competitive time for it) tests and maybe the pull-ups for me right now (right now can do about 5 or 6 really trying), the 65 push-ups and 90 sit-ups are fairly easy on most days (I've gotten higher than those scores before on PE tests; now if they're after the run/swim in the testing lineup, that's different, but if before, it's no problem unless I somehow become an absolute fatty between now and then (not likely the way I'm doing right now).

[DaveIn3D]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=the+funny+platoon&aq=1&oq=the+funny+pl&aqi=g2

I'll make it easy for all of you. Check out the link. Apparently Delta has been experimenting with female operators. Makes sense. There are some places where it would be easier for a woman to infiltrate. I wouldnt bet on seeing them in infantry units any time soon though..

-3D

[SlightlyCatholic]

The Delta Force that doesn't exist? That one?

[DaveIn3D]

The Delta Force that doesn't exist? That one?


Delta force officially exists but just like Area-51 you cant ask questions about it.

-3D

[Bozz]

It makes sense but it just seems a little unorthodox...I'm all for it as long as the standards aren't lowered.

Any thoughts?

[MOM]

Part of the challenge of being any kind of 'elite' trooper- anything from being a paratrooper to SOF- is that you gotta want it. If you don't want it bad enough to go through whatever administrative/regulatory hoops you need to in order to get in the door, then you will probably quit on the first hard day (which is today).

Excellent example you gave about your friend who gave up his Marine uniform for an Army one and almost lost his wife over it just to fly. One of the few nuggets of wisdom I can hand down to the younger generation that I've learned from my life (although civilian) experiences is that you can do anything you want to do to an extent that is directly porportional to your focus and will to make it happen.


There are some places where it would be easier for a woman to infiltrate.

My thoughts on the women in combat thing --- Women and men are wired SO differently. Both sexes have way different strenghts and weaknesses. The neat thing is that we compliment each other in such a way that the weakness in one gender is made up for by the strenght in the other. Part of the greatness of the USA is that in American society men and women work side by side in complimentry roles. Even though y'all didn't let us vote till less than a hunderd years ago, going back to the pioneer days women in this country have worked right along side of men. That's a big part in my opinion of what made this country the world superpower that it is. Everyone has the opportunity to do what they do best individually, in their role as part of a team, and in their contribution to the overall country as a whole.

What throws a wrench in the deal is when you have a woman (or man) who doesn't recognize their own limitations, but rather wants to be something they are not capable of being. Or they try to force their way into the other's domain just to prove a point that they can. I just imagine that there is a woman or two out there who could possibly pass through SEAL training. But should they? No I say. I think mixing sexes in a unit like the SEALS would be counter-productive to that brother hood they have. There's a psychological component to this also, within and without. It's like suing to let a girl join the Boy Scouts. If you let one join, then it's no longer the "Boy Scouts" and you've brought down the whole organization.

There is strength in the male only SEAL community just like there is strength politically in my women's only Republican Women's group. There's times when both sexes working together is best, and times when the group as a whole is better and stronger physically and psychologically when it's of a single gender.

[DaveIn3D]

Even though y'all didn't let us vote till less than a hunderd years ago... .

WHAT!!!??? Women can VOTE??????!!!!

-3D

[txb&b]

I didn't read all 142,000 links from the google search, but the gist of what I did read is that this is an all female in-house intelligence platoon that gathers intel prior to a Delta mission. Even though they may be combat trained, I really don't see them operating as a combat unit. I have no problem with an all female special forces unit that capitalize on certain female abilities but, like MOM said, mixing sexes in a specops unit would bring that unit down. There are many reasons why these units haven't gone and shouldn't go co-ed.

[DaveIn3D]

I didn't read all 142,000 links from the google search, but the gist of what I did read is that this is an all female in-house intelligence platoon that gathers intel prior to a Delta mission. Even though they may be combat trained, I really don't see them operating as a combat unit. I have no problem with an all female special forces unit that capitalize on certain female abilities but, like MOM said, mixing sexes in a specops unit would bring that unit down. There are many reasons why these units haven't gone and shouldn't go co-ed.

While I agree that it would be a bad idea to put women in Marine infantry units, Counter-terror teams would be much more flexible with female members. Most CT ops involve lots of intelligence gathering with usually one very violent quick strike. The bad guys know to look for military age males stalking their neighborhood. They dont always suspect the good looking blonde female shopping down the street. While the SEALS operate as an elite shock force forward of the main body, other spec-ops units dont roll that way. Green berets and Delta could greatly benefit from working with women. Their missions to infiltrate and either train or gain intelligence from indengenous folks could be accomplished with greater efficiency with females present. It appears Delta is already making this happen.

Or you could just look to the operating forces for your answer. I would suggest googling 'lioness teams' for the Marines. Women are needed out there it is just a matter of time before the old hags in the pentagon realize it.

-3D

[MOM]

An interesting side note on the normally expected gender roles - I needed a temp worker this week in my office, so hired one through an agency. I told them just entry level skills needed as they'd be doing some filing and copying. I was surprised this morning when HE showed up - they sent me a male who has a master's degree. WTF? It was just kinda odd to get a male temp for secretary type work, as they are usually female. Have to hand it him though, he said he'd been laid off and was willing to do whatever he could find while he's looking for another job.

[DaveIn3D]

An interesting side note on the normally expected gender roles - I needed a temp worker this week in my office, so hired one through an agency. I told them just entry level skills needed as they'd be doing some filing and copying. I was surprised this morning when HE showed up - they sent me a male who has a master's degree. WTF? It was just kinda odd to get a male temp for secretary type work, as they are usually female. Have to hand it him though, he said he'd been laid off and was willing to do whatever he could find while he's looking for another job.

HE???

Did he wear his uniform to the interview? You must have been impressed with that rack he has..

-3D

[MOM]

Haha..didn't even catch that. I meant "he" as in opposite of "she".

[Saint Marc]

If all men were created equal we wouldn't have to say it. And mom Seal training proves not all men are equal. Just how it is, I'm not Seal material myself. And you said we as in men wouldn't let you vote. True and this proves women aren't equal either, it proves men through coercion with sex made yet another stupid decision. Nancy Pelosi and Hillary being great examples.
But whatever, in America shit has to be lopsided and skewed to look even so what the hell. Demi Moore in the history books will probably be hailed as a great navy frogwoman.

[wukong]

The bad guys know to look for military age males stalking their neighborhood. They dont always suspect the good looking blonde female shopping down the street.

-3D

This reminded me of a story that was being told around USFK (United States Forces Korea) in the early 80's. Whether it is true or not, I heard it from an Army Brigadier General. It seems that the North Koreans inserted an operative by submarine into South Korea somewhere North of Pusan. This highly trained operative was captured in the Taegu train station on his way to Seoul. The story has this agent compromised and identified by an unobtrusive little old lady who's day job is to perform janitorial services at the train station. James Bond or the feminine equivalent may make good press and especially good film and a blonde with multiple endowments of social redeeming values may appeal to our personal taste; but it is truly the operative that you ignore that will be a threat to your operational existence.

I've often wondered what that little old lady that washed clothes in the Tan San Nuht BOQ was pondering other than the incredible size of my endowment.


An interesting side note on the normally expected gender roles - I needed a temp worker this week in my office, so hired one through an agency. I told them just entry level skills needed as they'd be doing some filing and copying. I was surprised this morning when HE showed up - they sent me a male who has a master's degree. WTF? It was just kinda odd to get a male temp for secretary type work, as they are usually female. Have to hand it him though, he said he'd been laid off and was willing to do whatever he could find while he's looking for another job.

Mom, I have this mental picture of you chasing this poor fellow around a desk. How many times did you make the loop?

Demi Moore in the history books will probably be hailed as a great navy frogwoman.

I think history tends to take care of history in an amazingly honest fashion. John Wayne is remembered not as an Air Force pilot, Navy submarine captain, Army special force operative or Marine grunt. He is remembered as an extraordinary American citizen. In time Demi Moore will be as memorable as Betty Grable. When you run on "tits and ass" you will be remembered as "tits and ass." If you have ever visited a fish house and seen women do men's jobs, you probably failed to notice that the women were as attractive as the men they worked with. But then, may be you noticed only the men.