Please tell me America isn't this ignorant...

[PhoenixCadet]

...or is it just plain stupidity?

I was listening to a local radio talk show guy earlier, and he was playing clips of a thing they did on the Howard Stern show. Walking the streets - of Harlem, I believe - they were asking if people supported Obama's stances on being pro-life and his stance on staying in Iraq; purposely giving Senator McCain's views.

Decide for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvqhdllXgU

-PC

[mtnsldr]

People are not that ignorant.

Except that they are.

[FeelinFroggy]

You'll find this sort of ignorance on both sides of the plate I'm afraid.

Does it really surprise you?

[PhoenixCadet]

Does it really surprise you?

Not the slighest, actually. I just had to think of something else to put in the initial post other than a YouTube link. :devil:

-PC

[Lee Ragan]

Yes.... some American citizens ARE that stupid. Millions of them are more ignorant of the candidates positions, than a bucket of rocks. So many in fact, the chances are real good that we will end up with the likes of Obama and Biden as the winners of this election. After all, it was the American voter that gave us eight years of that old Horn-dog Bill Clinton.

[HairyEyeball]

I could tell you that many Americans are not that stupid, but I'd be lying. The ugly truth is that the more 'the government' does for them, the less they have to do for themselves. The less they have to do, the less (they 'feel') they have to know.

When we went to Afghanistan, most people couldn't find it on a map. When you go into a fast 'food' joint, cashiers can't make change without their computerized registers. Examples abound - too many to list here, but don't we see it daily?

[FeelinFroggy]

When we went to Afghanistan, most people couldn't find it on a map. ? I personally know a few people that cannot locate the United States of America on a map. I'd like to have a nickel every time I've heard our National Anthem royally butchered. And there's still a few that think our great nation has 52 states.

[DaveIn3D]

Too bad we cant get whitey to vote down race lines like darky. It might make people try and get a little bit more involved with the next election.

-3D

P.S. My wife is preggo.

[HairyEyeball]

There's a Presidential candidate who thinks there are 57 - plus the two he hasn't visited.

[HairyEyeball]

Too bad we cant get whitey to vote down race lines like darky. It might make people try and get a little bit more involved with the next election.

-3D

P.S. My wife is preggo.

This coincides perfectly with an email I received just yesterday:


Take the time to read the letter below as an intellectual, not a religious individual. After you have read it all, and want to know a bit about the author, go to the link. Eugenia
http://www.huntleybrown.com/Biography/Biography.htm

Why I Can't Vote For Obama
By Huntley Brown[

Dear Friends,

A few months ago I was asked for my perspective on Obama, I sent out an email with a few points. With the election just around the corner I decided to complete my perspective. Those of you on my e-list have seen some of this before but it's worth repeating...

First I must say whoever wins the election will have my prayer support. Obama needs to be commended for his accomplishments but I need to explain why I will not be voting for him.

Many of my friends process their identity through their blackness. I process my identity through Christ. Being a Christian (a Christ follower) means He leads I follow. I can't dictate the terms. He does because He is the leader. I can't vote black because I am black; I have to vote Christian because that's who I am. Christian first, black second. Neither should anyone from the other ethnic groups vote because of ethnicity. Years from now I won't be asked if I was black or white. I will be asked if I knew Jesus and accepted Him as Lord and Savior.

In an election there are many issues to consider but when society gets abortion, same-sex marriage, embryonic stem-cell research, human cloning to name a few, wrong economic concerns will soon not matter. We need to follow Martin Luther King's words, don't judge someone by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I don't know Obama so all I can go on is his voting record. His voting record earned him the title of the most liberal senator in the US Senate in 2007.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/> NATIONAL JOURNAL:
Obama: Most Liberal Senator in 2007 (01/31/2008)

To beat Ted Kennedy and Hilary Clinton as the most liberal senator, takes some doing. Obama accomplished this feat in 2 short years. I wonder what would happen to America if he had four years to work with.

There is a reason Planned Parenthood gives him a 100 % rating. There is a reason the homosexual community supports him. There is a reason Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Castro, Hamas etc. Love him. There is a reason he said he would nominate liberal judges to the Supreme Court. There is a reason he voted against the infanticid bill. There is a reason he voted No on the constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. There is a reason he voted No on banning partial birth abortion. There is a reason he voted No on confirming Justices Roberts and Alito. These two judges are conservatives and they have since overturned partial birth abortion. The same practice Obama wanted to continue.

Let's take a look at the practice he wanted to continue. The 5 Step Partial Birth Abortion procedures:
A. Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's leg with forceps. (Remember this is a live baby)
B. The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal.
C. The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body, except for the head.
D. The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the hole.
E. The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed. God help him.

There is a reason Obama opposed the parental notification law. Think about this: You can't give a kid an aspirin without parental notification but that same kid can have an abortion without parental notification. This is insane.

There is a reason he went to Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years. Obama tells us he has good judgment but he sat under Jeremiah Wright teaching for 20 years. Now he is condemning Wright's sermons. I wonder why now? Obama said Jeremiah Wright led him to the Lord and disciple him. A disciple is one in training. Jesus told us in Matthew 28:19 - 20 "Go and make disciples of all nations." This means reproduce yourself. Teach people to think like you, walk like you; talk like you believe what you believe etc. The question I have is what did Jeremiah Wright teach him?

Would you support a White President who went to a church which has tenets that said they have a
1. Commitment to the White Community
2. Commitment to the White Family
3. Adherence to the White Work Ethic
4. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community.
5. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions
6. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System
7. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.
Would you support a President who went to a church like that?

Just change the word from white to black and you have the tenets of Obama's former church. If President Bush was a member of a church like this, he would be called a racist. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton would have been marching outside.

This kind of church is a racist church. Obama did not wake up after 20 years and just discovered he went to a racist church. The church can't be about race. Jesus did not come for any particular race. He came for the whole world.

A church can't have a value system based on race. The churches value system has to be based on biblical mandate. It does not matter if it's a white church or a black church it's still wrong. Anyone from either race that attends a church like this would never get my vote. Obama's former Pastor Jeremiah Wright is a disciple of liberal theologian James Cone, author of the 1970 book A Black Theology of Liberation. Cone once wrote: "Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him." Cone is the man Obama's mentor looks up to. Does Obama believe this?

So what does all this mean for the nation? In the past when the Lord brought someone with the beliefs of Obama to lead a nation it meant one thing - judgment.

Read 1 Samuel 8 when Israel asked for a king. First God says in 1 Samuel 1:9 "Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do" Then God says I Samuel 1:18 " When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day." 19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. "No!" they said. "We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles." 21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD. 22 The LORD answered, "Listen to them and give them a king."

Here is what we know for sure. God is not schizophrenic. He would not tell one person to vote for Obama and one to vote for McCain. As the scripture says, a city divided against itself cannot stand, so obviously many people are not hearing from God. Maybe I am the one not hearing but I know that God does not change and Obama contradicts many things I read in scripture so I doubt it.

For all my friends who are voting for Obama can you really look God in the face and say; Father based on your word, I am voting for Obama even though I know he will continue the genocidal practice of partial birth abortion. He might have to nominate three or four Supreme Court justices, and I am sure he will be nominating liberal judges who will be making laws that are against you. I also know he will continue to push for homosexual rights, even though you destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for this. I know I can look the other way because of the economy.

I could not see Jesus agreeing with many of Obama's positions. inally I have two questions for all my liberal friends. Since we know someone's value system has to be placed on the nation,
1. Whose value system should be placed on the nation.
2. Who should determine that this is the right value system for the nation?

Blessings,
Huntley Brown

[SlightlyCatholic]

For all my friends who are voting for Obama can you really look God in the face and say; Father based on your word, I am voting for Obama even though I know he will continue the genocidal practice of partial birth abortion. He might have to nominate three or four Supreme Court justices, and I am sure he will be nominating liberal judges who will be making laws that are against you. I also know he will continue to push for homosexual rights, even though you destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for this. I know I can look the other way because of the economy.

Related to this (this is Obama's pride and joy, should he be elected)...

Freedom of Choice Act (Introduced in Senate)

S 2020 IS


108th CONGRESS

2d Session

S. 2020
To prohibit, consistent with Roe v. Wade, the interference by the government with a woman's right to choose to bear a child or terminate a pregnancy, and for other purposes.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

January 22, 2004
Mrs. BOXER (for herself, Mr. CORZINE, Mrs. MURRAY, Mr. LAUTENBERG, Mrs. CLINTON, Ms. CANTWELL, Mr. JEFFORDS, Mr. LIEBERMAN, Mrs. FEINSTEIN, Mr. SARBANES, and Ms. MIKULSKI) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To prohibit, consistent with Roe v. Wade, the interference by the government with a woman's right to choose to bear a child or terminate a pregnancy, and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Freedom of Choice Act'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

Congress finds the following:

(1) The United States was founded on the principles of individual liberty, personal privacy, and equality. Such principles ensure that each individual is free to make the most intimate decisions free from governmental interference and discrimination.

(2) A woman's decision to commence, prevent, continue, or terminate a pregnancy is one of the most intimate decisions an individual ever faces. As such, reproductive health decisions are best made by the woman, in consultation with her medical provider or loved ones, without governmental interference.

(3) In 1965, in Griswold v. Connecticut (381 U.S. 479), and in 1973, in Roe v. Wade (410 U.S. 113) and Doe v. Bolton (410 U.S. 179), the Supreme Court recognized the right to privacy protected by the Constitution and that such right encompassed the right of every woman to weigh the personal, moral, and religious considerations involved in deciding whether to commence, prevent, continue, or terminate a pregnancy.

(4) The Roe v. Wade decision carefully balanced the rights of women to make important reproductive decisions with the state's interest in potential life. Under Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton, a woman's right to choose to terminate her pregnancy is absolute only prior to fetal viability, with the state permitted to ban abortion after fetal viability except when necessary to protect the life or health of a woman.

(5) These decisions have protected the health and lives of women in the United States. Prior to the Roe v. Wade decision, an estimated 1,200,000 women each year were forced to resort to illegal abortions, despite the known hazards that included unsanitary conditions, incompetent treatment, infection, hemorrhage, disfiguration, and death.

(6) According to one estimate, prior to 1973, as many as 5,000 women died each year in the United States as a result of having an illegal abortion.

(7) In countries where abortion remains illegal, the risk of complications and maternal mortality is high. According to the World Health Organization, of the approximately 600,000 pregnancy-related deaths occurring annually around the world, 80,000 are associated with unsafe abortions.

(8) The Roe v. Wade decision expanded the opportunities for women to participate equally in society. In 1992, in Planned Parenthood v. Casey (505 U.S. 833), the Supreme Court observed that, `[t]he ability of women to participate equally in the economic and social life of the Nation has been facilitated by their ability to control their reproductive lives.'.

(9) Even though the Roe v. Wade decision guaranteed a constitutional right to choose whether to terminate or continue a pregnancy, threats to that right remain, including possible reversal or further erosion by the Supreme Court of the right, and legislative and administrative policies at all levels of government that make abortion more difficult and dangerous to obtain.

(10) 87 percent of the counties in the United States have no abortion provider.

(11) Legal barriers to the full range of reproductive services endanger the health and lives of women.

(12) Women should have meaningful access to reproductive health services to prevent unintended pregnancies, thereby reducing the need for abortions.

(13) To ensure that a woman's right to choose whether to terminate a pregnancy is available to all women in the United States, Federal protection for that right is necessary.

(14) Although Congress may not create constitutional rights without amending the Constitution, Congress may, where authorized by its enumerated powers and not prohibited by the Constitution, enact legislation to create and secure statutory rights in areas of legitimate national concern.

(15) Congress has the affirmative power under section 8 of article I of the Constitution and section 5 of the 14th amendment to the Constitution to enact legislation to facilitate interstate commerce and to prevent State interference with interstate commerce, liberty, or equal protection of the laws.

(16) Federal protection of a woman's right to choose to prevent or terminate a pregnancy falls within this affirmative power of Congress, in part, because--

(A) many women cross State lines to obtain abortions and many more would be forced to do so absent a constitutional right or Federal protection;

(B) reproductive health clinics are commercial actors that regularly purchase medicine, medical equipment, and other necessary supplies from out-of-State suppliers; and

(C) reproductive health clinics employ doctors, nurses, and other personnel who travel across State lines in order to provide reproductive health services to patients.

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) GOVERNMENT- The term `government' includes a branch, department, agency, instrumentality, or official (or other individual acting under color of law) of the United States, a State, or a subdivision of a State.

(2) STATE- The term `State' means each of the 50 States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and each territory or possession of the United States.

(3) VIABILITY- The term `viability' means that stage of pregnancy when, in the best medical judgment of the attending physician based on the particular medical facts of the case before the physician, there is a reasonable likelihood of the sustained survival of the fetus outside of the woman.

SEC. 4. INTERFERENCE WITH REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH PROHIBITED.

(a) STATEMENT OF POLICY- It is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after fetal viability when necessary to protect the life or health of the woman.

(b) PROHIBITION OF INTERFERENCE- A government may not--

(1) deny or interfere with a woman's right to choose--

(A) to bear a child;

(B) to terminate a pregnancy prior to viability; or

(C) to terminate a pregnancy after viability where termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman; or

(2) discriminate against the exercise of the rights set forth in paragraph (1) in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information.

(c) CIVIL ACTION- An individual aggrieved by a violation of this section may obtain appropriate relief (including relief against a government) in a civil action.

SEC. 5. SEVERABILITY.

If any provision of this Act, or the application of such provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be unconstitutional, the remainder of this Act, or the application of such provision to persons or circumstances other than those as to which the provision is held to be unconstitutional, shall not be affected thereby.

SEC. 6. RETROACTIVE EFFECT.

This Act applies to every Federal, State, and local statute, ordinance, regulation, administrative order, decision, policy, practice, or other action enacted, adopted, or implemented before, on, or after the date of enactment of this Act.

Source: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.2020:

[reddog]

Rep. John Murtha is sticking his foot in his mouth, again. First time he did so, was to call you nasty Marines murderers, for shooting innocent by-standers. Now, I come to find that my belief in gun ownership and God make me a racist who won't vote for a person of color. I'm going to stick my neck out and call him an ex-Marine and wonder if he's lost a marble or two.
3D, we think on the same lines, now go and take a bite out of a bar of soap and pass it on to me. ;)
Easy Brother,
Reddog...
ps Congratulations on the baby!

[pingjocky]

my belief in gun ownership and God make me a racist who won't vote for a person of color

At least I'm in good company...welcome to the club, Bro! How come I'm a racist because I won't vote for Obama, but all the blacks who vote for him just because of his skin color are not? I've got an essay saved somewhere on my computer entitled "Only Whites Can be Racist" (can't remember the author right off the top of my head)......maybe I'll post it sometime.

R/
Pingjocky

[HairyEyeball]

Nobody thinks that rear-echelon cow is anything but an ex-Marine except the terminally stupid, 'dog, no apologies necessary. Kinda makes me long for the good old days, though, when he could be recalled to active duty just long enough to hold a full-dress 'Drumming Out' ceremony. Failing that, I just ask one chance to b****-slap him silly, even knowing I'd get splattered.

On a related (to the thread) note, I've often wondered just how stupid (there's that word again) such huge chunks of the electorate have to be to buy into that 'if you don't vote our way you're a racist, or a fascist, or...' merde.

[63Bravo]

Flip side to this coin...would the answers have been any different if the questions would have been asked to White voters under the pretense that it was McCains platform? I would hazard a guess that you would have seen the same type of answers.

Jay Leno has been showing "Joe Americas" ignorance for years, why would this surprise anyone?

[03_SHOOTER]

Flip side to this coin...would the answers have been any different if the questions would have been asked to White voters under the pretense that it was McCains platform? I would hazard a guess that you would have seen the same type of answers.

Jay Leno has been showing "Joe Americas" ignorance for years, why would this surprise anyone?

Really? Well look at the following, and tell me exactly what you would say about someone who not only espoused these things, but swore feilty to them, if the word "black" were replaced with "white", and be honest.

Commitment to God

Commitment to the Black Community

Commitment to the Black Family

Adherence to the Black Work Ethic

Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community

Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions

Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System

Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

Now, I don't know what you'd call it, but everyone else on the face of the planet that I know of would call him a dog-raping RACIST S.O.B., and they sure wouldn't be voting for him for POTUS, or anything else for that matter.

After over 20 years as a member of a church that preaches this blatant RACISM, anyone connected with the Obama campaign in any way, calling anyone else a "racist" is the height of hypocrisy to say the least.

[Startingover]

This coincides perfectly with an email I received just yesterday:

Hairy, can I have permision to distrobute this massly?

[CAPSmith]

Related to this (this is Obama's pride and joy, should he be elected)...

I don't know if it helps you any, but 'Roe' from 'Roe' vs. 'Wade' or Norma McCorvey works full time to get the Supreme Court to reverse its decision. She was the pro-choice side of the landmark case.

[03_SHOOTER]

Hairy, can I have permision to distrobute this massly?

I'm sure he wouldn't mind...but first you need to LEARN TO USE THE SPELL CHECK SO THAT WE'LL KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY!!!:devil:

I generally try not to come down too hard on people about this, but "permision"? And "distrobute" has got to be the most egregious example of "not even trying to get it right" that I've seen in a loooonnnngggg time. And "massly"??

Now, please go back and edit your post so that it bears some semblance of proper English, and THEN I'm sure that Hairy won't have a problem.

[63Bravo]

Really? Well look at the following, and tell me exactly what you would say about someone who not only espoused these things, but swore feilty to them, if the word "black" were replaced with "white", and be honest.



Now, I don't know what you'd call it, but everyone else on the face of the planet that I know of would call him a dog-raping RACIST S.O.B., and they sure wouldn't be voting for him for POTUS, or anything else for that matter.

After over 20 years as a member of a church that preaches this blatant RACISM, anyone connected with the Obama campaign in any way, calling anyone else a "racist" is the height of hypocrisy to say the least.

Of course it would be considered racist...because it uses White...in a way that we dont generally use. To add the term "White" in front of anything the way we do "Black" is definitely going to cause racial overtones. That is why we dont do it...but, would it be the same if the "White" were left off and the questions asked the same to the reverse audience, then I would still say you would receive the same type of answers.

[03_SHOOTER]

Of course it would be considered racist...because it uses White...in a way that we dont generally use. To add the term "White" in front of anything the way we do "Black" is definitely going to cause racial overtones.

So you readily admit the total hypocrisy of "racism" as it's being used by the radicals in the black community. Well, at least we're getting somewhere.

So, it's OK in your book for Obama to sit in the pews of a RADICAL RACIST for over 20 years, accept him as his "spiritual mentor", allow him to marry him to his wife, to baptise his children, and you don't have a serious problem with that? Oh, and for the record, I don't believe for even one second his explaination that he "never heard anything like that". As far as I'm concerned, that's just as much of a lie as his claims that he wasn't close with the unrepentant terrorist, Bill Ayers, or his other lie claiming that he didn't have anything to do with ACORN. In fact, the more I look at Obamas record, all I see are lies, racism, radicalism, and Communism.

[63Bravo]

So you readily admit the total hypocrisy of "racism" as it's being used by the radicals in the black community. Well, at least we're getting somewhere.

So, it's OK in your book for Obama to sit in the pews of a RADICAL RACIST for over 20 years, accept him as his "spiritual mentor", allow him to marry him to his wife, to baptise his children, and you don't have a serious problem with that? Oh, and for the record, I don't believe for even one second his explaination that he "never heard anything like that". As far as I'm concerned, that's just as much of a lie as his claims that he wasn't close with the unrepentant terrorist, Bill Ayers, or his other lie claiming that he didn't have anything to do with ACORN. In fact, the more I look at Obamas record, all I see are lies, racism, radicalism, and Communism.

Racism is racism..no matter your color. So yes, I would say it is just as wrong for the Black community to use it as I would for the Whites to do so...to me thats a given.

Do I think Obama sat in church and never heard a sermon by Wright that was racially motivated? Of course not...it would be a hard thing to not believe. However, I can see him set through the sermon and not agree with it on its basis. I have set through many sermons where the preacher said things that either I disagreed with or didnt share in his belief in. Just because you are a member of the church and respect/admire the preacher does not mean you adhere to all of his teachings/beliefs...it would be ridiculous to think so.

Ayers is a dead horse until someone out there shows proof that he and Obama were closer than what has been shown so far. For Ayers and Obama I offer you G Gordon Liddy and McCain. Liddy is just as much a terrorist as Ayers in my view, although he didnt "bomb" anyone, he did bring down a sitting PotUS, Richard Nixon during the Watergate fiasco. Add in Liddys vehemence toward ATF agents in the Branch Davidian standoff, "Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests. ... Kill the sons of bitches.", you can see he is off the charts and far more dangerous than a Educator in a University.

[SGM]

Ayers may be a dead horse now, but just wait for the sleeping mole to wake up. One never knows when or how!! Never know a lepord to change it's spots.

[03_SHOOTER]

For Ayers and Obama I offer you G Gordon Liddy and McCain.

AGAIN with the Red Herrings! Liddy has absolutely NOT THE FIRST THING to do with McCains campaign, period, and the fact that you even try to drag him into the discussion clearly illustrates the fragility of your argument.

Oh, and one other thing, if you're going to get your talking points from the Huffingbiotch Post, at least be honest enough to provide a link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/05/g-gordon-liddy-john-mccai_n_100134.html) to the story so that we can all have a good laugh at your "sources".

[CAPSmith]

you can see he is off the charts and far more dangerous than a Educator in a University.

Ayers IS a terrorist. He founded a terrorist organization. They formally declared war against the United States Government and then proceeded to bomb the pentagon, police stations, judges homes, etc. He is the type of person we have in Guantanamo Bay right now – why he is allowed to walk the street today is beyond me. To this day he still says that “he doesn’t think that we [WUO] did enough then.”

“in 1969, Ayers participated in planting a bomb at a statue dedicated to riot police casualties in the 1886 Haymarket Riot confrontation between labor supporters and the police. The blast broke almost 100 windows and blew pieces of the statue onto the nearby Kennedy Expressway. “

He may not have killed anyone personally, but neither did Charlie Manson.

[Choicemaker]

INDIVIDUAL VALUE or Collective non-value

Carl V. "Sam" Lamb and I served side-by-side as rifle-squad
leaders Fox Company, "Chesty" Puller's 1st Marines, 1st Marine
Division. He wrote a book about our experiences in the Korean
conflict, 1950-1951. He included my remarks about an incident in
which one of our people threatened to punch-out a fellow squad-
leader who had black skin.

+ + +

THE LAST PARADE
by Carl V. Lamb Page 296 (1951)

James Fletcher Baxter

Sam and I had a lot in common. We both resisted evil. After I
got out of the hospital, 'Big Jim' Causey told of driving along
in his police cruiser and hitting a black man in his head
with his pistol. He thought it was funny how the guy sprawled
into the street. When he made this comment we were in a card
game. I didn't say anything, but then he said he was going to
kick the ____ out of Joe Goggins and I had heard enough.

I said, "If you're going to try that, you'll have to go through
me to get to him. I'm willing to give my life for a country
that values each individual. If that isn't true, I don't want
to fight for that country - but, it is true, so I'm not going
to let you rob me of the very good reason I may lose my life
tomorrow or next week. If you attack him, you attack me. I
may lose, but I guarantee I will make it very expensive for
you to get to him. Let me know what you decide."

He got up from our card game and said, "I'll have to think
about it."

I said, "Let me know. I'll be here."

He came back a little later and said, "You're right. I was
wrong." I thanked him for his manliness.

Joe Goggins came to me later and thanked me. He had wet eyes.

+ + +

(11/2/08)
Shortly after the above event, Causey was sent home on a
medical emergency for a family member. On the way, he
made a stop at a Naval medical facility stateside and ran into
my brother, Sgt. Howard "Barney" Baxter, 5th Marines, with
Chosen Reservoir frost-bitten feet. My brother said Causey
told him what had happened, and that it had "changed his life
forever." Never again would he do "the collective thing" of race
abuse. He saw the value of each individual, regardless of race,
station, or other. He even forgave himself and became a worthy
and honorable U.S. Marine.

Jim Baxter
Sgt. USMC
WWII & Korean War
semper fidelis
a point-man/follower of The Lion of Judah

************************************************** ************************

INDIVIDUAL VALUE - Gift of Y'shua JESUS
by James Fletcher Baxter

The Old World method of measuring human value was,
and still is, by the collective - the group. Whether tribe,
clan, city-state, race, color, ethnic, or gender, the Old
World, ancient and modern, measures by the plural
unit. Individuals had and have no value of them-
selves but only as they were and are part of a
collective. Only numbers counted!

When Y'shua Jesus died on the cross, the veil of
the Temple at the Holy of Holies parted from the
top down. Matthew 27:51 Mark 15:38 Luke 23:45 KJV
The individual believer in the congregation had, for
the first time, a face-to-face, one-on-one relation with
his/her Creator. Until then, there was no individual
valid option to collectivist human value measuring
systems. (Only the High Priest entered the Holy of Holies
in behalf of all Israel, and even then, only once a year.)

The Creator, Himself, had validated each individual
person for the first time.Thus, the Individual became
the cornerstone for later human value measuring
systems: socio-political, philosophical, protestantism,
educational, economic, etc., henceforth and forever.

Western Civilization, America, English Law, civil
Rights, the 'democratic' process, representative
government, etc., all sprang from that single event.
(Greco-Roman 'democracies' were 95% slave through-
out their entire histories.) Biblical principles are still
today the foundation under Western Civilization and
the American way of life.

Many social systems attempt to borrow ideas of
"democracy" without the basic premise in The Indi-
vidual. Such a system is only superficially and
temporarily 'democratic.' The cornerstone of the
democratic process is The Individual and the
cornerstone of the value of The Individual is
Y'shua Jesus! It is not possible to have one with-
out the other. There is only One Source - there is
no other.

It is additionally interesting to note that all
value measuring systems are based on the single
definitive unit of the system. Ex: Number, Time,
Distance, Weight, Heat, Money, Angle, Volume, etc.

Only humanism makes the abusive error of measuring
human value by the plural unit and attempts to
build social structures, relations, and institutions
thereon. Such man-made systems can only be
abusive and oppressive because in reality there
are only individual persons. Groups or collectives
are merely convenient verbalizations about indi-
viduals. They are not reality.

I have yet to see a 'group.' All I have ever seen
are individuals. Have you ever seen a group - or is
it a verbal convenience? Reality is only in the
individual person. And, such a validation never
derived from a human source without the initiative
of the Creator. (The French Rationalists of the
18th Century favored the fruit - but rejected the
branch, tree, and root.)

Today, wherever Y'shua Jesus is rejected, the
group or collective is still the basic way of
measuring human value - and/or human non-value.
Individual value is the only solution to collectivism;
- slavery or any other form.

We thank the Lord God for revealing His validation
of each individual person. We thank Him for creat-
ing each person uniquely, in His image, and call-
ing each one to a courageous ascension by Y'shua
Jesus, who said, "I AM the Way..."

Praise the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and
His Son of Man, Y'shua Jesus.


Jim Baxter
Teacher, 5th Grade - 30 wonderful years!
Freedoms Foundation Classroom Teacher Medal 1967
Youth of America Writing Medal
Santa Maria, CA
vincit veritas
a point-man/follower of The LION of JUDAH Joel 3:14 KJV

[Choicemaker]

[B] INTRODUCTION
Every September, I recall that is more than half a century (63 years) since I landed at Nagasaki with the 2nd Marine Division in the original occupation of Japan following World War II. This time every year, I have watched and listened to the light-hearted "peaceniks" and their light-headed symbolism-without-substance of ringing bells, flying pigeons, floating candles, and sonorous chanting and I recall again that "Peace is not a cause - it is an effect."

In July, 1945, my fellow 8th RCT Marines [I was a BARman] and I returned to Saipan following the successful conclusion of the Battle of Okinawa. We were issued new equipment and replacements joined each outfit in preparation for our coming amphibious assault on the home islands of Japan.

B-29 bombing had leveled the major cities of Japan, including Kobe, Osaka, Nagoya, Yokohama, Yokosuka, and Tokyo.

We were informed we would land three Marine divisions and six Army divisions, perhaps abreast, with large reserves following us in. It was estimated that it would cost half a million casualties to subdue the Japanese homeland.

In August, the A-bomb was dropped on Hiroshima but the Japanese government refused to surrender. Three days later a second A-bomb was dropped on the city of Nagasaki. The Imperial Japanese government finally surrendered.

Following the 1941 sneak attack on Pearl Harbor, a Japanese admiral said, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." Indeed, they had. Not surprisingly, the atomic bomb was produced by a free people functioning in a free environment. Not surprisingly because the creative process is a natural human choice-making process and inventiveness occurs most readily where choice-making opportunities abound. America!

Tamper with a giant, indeed! Tyrants, beware: Free men are nature's pit bulls of Liberty! The Japanese learned the hard way what tyrants of any generation should know: Never start a war with a free people - you never know what they may invent!

As a newly assigned member of a U.S. Marine intelligence section, I had a unique opportunity to visit many major cities of Japan, including Tokyo and Hiroshima, within weeks of their destruction. For a full year I observed the beaches, weapons, and troops we would have assaulted had the A-bombs not been dropped. Yes, it would have been very destructive for all, but especially for the people of Japan.

When we landed in Japan, for what came to be the finest and most humane occupation of a defeated enemy in recorded history, it was with great appreciation, thanksgiving, and praise for the atomic bomb team, including the aircrew of the Enola Gay. A half million American homes had been spared the Gold Star flag, including, I'm sure, my own.

Whenever I hear the apologists expressing guilt and shame for A-bombing and ending the war Japan had started (they ignore the cause-effect relation between Pearl Harbor and Nagasaki), I have noted that neither the effete critics nor the puff-adder politicians are among us in the assault landing-craft or the stinking rice paddies of their suggested alternative, "conventional" warfare. Stammering reluctance is obvious and continuous, but they do love to pontificate about the Rights that others, and the Bomb, have bought and preserved for them.

The vanities of ignorance and camouflaged cowardice abound as license for the assertion of virtuous "rights" purchased by the blood of others - those others who have borne the burden and physical expense of Rights whining apologists so casually and self-righteously claim.

At best, these fakers manifest a profound and cryptic ignorance of causal relations, myopic perception, and dull I.Q. At worst, there is a word and description in The Constitution defining those who love the enemy more than they love their own countrymen and their own posterity. Every Yankee Doodle Dandy knows what that word is.

In 1945, America was the only nation in the world with the Bomb and it behaved responsibly and respectfully. It remained so until two among us betrayed it to the Kremlin. Still, this American weapon system has been the prime deterrent to earth's latest model world- tyranny: Seventy years of Soviet collectivist definition, coercion, and domination of individual human beings.

The message is this: Trust Freedom. Remember, tyrants never learn. The restriction of Freedom is the limitation of human choice, and choice is the fulcrum-point of the creative process in human affairs. As earth's choicemaker, it is our human identity on nature's beautiful blue planet and the natural premise of man's free institutions, environments, and respectful relations with one another. Made in the image of our Creator, free men choose, create, and progress - or die.

Free men should not fear the moon-god-crowd oppressor nor choose any of his ways. Recall with a confident Job and a victorious David, "Know ye not you are in league with the stones of the field?"

Semper Fidelis
Jim Baxter
Sgt. USMC
WW II and Korean War
a point-man/follower of The Lion of Judah

[Choicemaker]

[B] The Season of Generation-Choicemaker
Joel 3:14 kjv
Consider:
The missing element in every human 'solution' is
an accurate definition of the creature.

In an effort to diminish the multiple and persistent
dangers and abuses which have characterized the
affairs of man in his every Age, and to assist in the
requisite search for human identity, it is essential to
perceive and specify that distinction which naturally
and most uniquely defines the human being.

Because definitions rule in the minds, behaviors, and
institutions of men, we can be confident that delineating
and communicating that quality will assist the process
of resolution and the courageous ascension to which
man is called. As Americans of the 21st Century, we are
obliged and privileged to join our forebears and participate
in this continuing paradigm proclamation.

"WHAT IS MAN...?" God asks - and answers:
HUMAN DEFINED: EARTH'S CHOICEMAKER
by James Fletcher Baxter (c) AD 2008

The way we define 'human' determines our view of self,
others, relationships, institutions, life, and future. Many
problems in human experience are the result of false
and inaccurate definitions of humankind premised
in man-made religions and humanistic philosophies.

Human knowledge is a fraction of the whole universe.
The balance is a vast void of human ignorance. Human
reason cannot fully function in such a void; thus, the
intellect can rise no higher than the criteria by which it
perceives and measures values.

Humanism makes man his own standard of measure.
However, as with all measuring systems, a standard
must be greater than the value measured. Based on
preponderant ignorance and an egocentric carnal
nature, humanism demotes reason to the simpleton
task of excuse-making in behalf of the rule of appe-
tites, desires, feelings, emotions, - and glands.

Because man, hobbled in an ego-centric predicament,
cannot invent criteria greater than himself, the humanist
lacks a predictive capability. Thus, his man-made criteria
rises no higher than eyebrows - and too often, no higher
than pubic hair! Without instinct or transcendent criteria,
humanism cannot evaluate options with foresight and
vision for progression and survival. Lacking foresight,
man is blind to potential consequence and is unwittingly
committed to mediocrity, collectivism, averages, and re-
gression - and worse. Humanism is an unworthy worship.

The void of human ignorance can easily be filled with
a functional faith while not-so-patiently awaiting the
foot-dragging growth of human knowledge and behav-
ior. Faith, initiated by the Creator and revealed and
validated in His Word, the Bible, brings a transcend-
ent standard to man the choice-maker. Other philo-
sophies and religions are man-made, humanism, and
thereby lack what only the Bible has:

1.Transcendent Criteria and
2.Fulfilled Prophetic Validation.

The vision of faith in God and His Word is survival
equipment for today and the future. Only the Creator,
who made us in His own image, is qualified to define
us accurately.

Human is earth's Choicemaker. Psalm 25:12 He is by
nature and nature's God a creature of Choice - and of
Criteria. Psalm 119:30,173 His unique and definitive
characteristic is, and of Right ought to be, the natural
foundation of his environments, institutions, and re-
spectful relations to his fellow-man. Thus, he is orien-
ted to a Freedom whose roots are in the Order of the
universe. selah

At the sub-atomic level of the physical universe quantum
physics indicates a multifarious gap or division in the
causal chain; particles to which position cannot be
assigned at all times, systems that pass from one energy
state to another without manifestation in intermediate
states, entities without mass, fields whose substance is
as insubstantial as "a probability."

Only statistical conglomerates pay tribute to
deterministic forces. Singularities do not and are
therefore random, unpredictable, mutant, and in this
sense, uncaused. The finest contribution inanimate
reality is capable of making toward choice, without its
own selective agencies, is this continuing manifestation
of opportunity as the pre-condition to choice it defers
to the natural action of living forms.

Biological science affirms that each level of life,
single-cell to man himself, possesses attributes of
sensitivity, discrimination, and selectivity, and in
the exclusive and unique nature of each diversified
life form.

The survival and progression of life forms has all too
often been dependent upon the ever-present undeterminative
potential and appearance of one unique individual organism
within the whole spectrum of a given life-form. Only the
uniquely equipped individual organism is, like The Golden
Wedge of Ophir, capable of traversing the causal gap to
survival and progression. Mere reproductive determinacy
would have rendered life forms incapable of such potential.

Only a moving universe of opportunity plus choice enables
the present reality.

Each individual human being possesses a unique, highly
developed, and sensitive perception of variety. Thus
aware, man is endowed with a natural capability for enact-
ing internal mental and external physical selectivity.
Quantitative and qualitative choice-making thus lends
itself as the superior basis of an active intelligence.

Human is earth's Choicemaker. His title describes
his definitive and typifying characteristic. Recall
that his other features are but vehicles of experi-
ence intent on the development of perceptive
awareness and the following acts of decision and
choice. Note that the products of man cannot define
him for they are the fruit of the discerning choice-
making process and include the cognition of self,
the utility of experience, the development of value-
measuring systems and language, and the accultur-
ation of civilization.

The arts and the sciences of man, as with his habits,
customs, and traditions, are the creative harvest of
his perceptive and selective powers. Creativity, the
creative process, is a choice-making process. His
articles, constructs, and commodities, however
marvelous to behold, deserve neither awe nor idol-
atry, for man, not his contrivance, is earth's own
highest expression of the creative process.

Human is earth's Choicemaker. The sublime and
significant act of choosing is, itself, the Archimedean
fulcrum upon which man levers and redirects the
forces of cause and effect to an elected level of qual-
ity and diversity. Further, it orients him toward a
natural environmental opportunity, freedom, and
bestows earth's title, The Choicemaker, on his
singular and plural brow.

[Choicemaker]

Deterministic systems, ideological symbols of abdication
by man from his natural role as earth's Choicemaker,
inevitably degenerate into collectivism; the negation of
singularity, they become a conglomerate plural-based
system of measuring human value. Blunting an awareness
of diversity, blurring alternatives, and limiting the
selective creative process, they are self-relegated to
a passive and circular regression.

Tampering with man's selective nature endangers his
survival for it would render him impotent and obsolete
by denying the tools of variety, individuality,
perception, criteria, selectivity, and progress.
Coercive attempts produce revulsion, for such acts
are contrary to an indeterminate nature and nature's
indeterminate off-spring, man the Choicemaker.

Until the oppressors discover that wisdom only just
begins with a respectful acknowledgment of The Creator,
The Creation, and The Choicemaker, they will be ever
learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth.
The rejection of Creator-initiated standards relegates
the mind of man to its own primitive, empirical, and
delimited devices. It is thus that the human intellect
cannot ascend and function at any level higher than the
criteria by which it perceives and measures values.

Additionally, such rejection of transcendent criteria
self-denies man the vision and foresight essential to
decision-making for survival and progression. He is left,
instead, with the redundant wreckage of expensive hind-
sight, including human institutions characterized by
averages, mediocrity, and regression.

Humanism, mired in the circular and mundane egocentric
predicament, is ill-equipped to produce transcendent
criteria. Evidenced by those who do not perceive
superiority and thus find themselves beset by the shifting
winds of the carnal-ego; i.e., moods, feelings, desires,
appetites, etc., the mind becomes subordinate: a mere
device for excuse-making and rationalizing self-justifica-
tion.

The carnal-ego rejects criteria and self-discipline for such
instruments are tools of the mind and the attitude. The
appetites of the flesh have no need of standards for at the
point of contention standards are perceived as alien, re-
strictive, and inhibiting. Yet, the very survival of our
physical nature itself depends upon a maintained sover-
eignty of the mind and of the spirit.

It remained, therefore, to the initiative of a personal
and living Creator to traverse the human horizon and
fill the vast void of human ignorance with an intelli-
gent and definitive faith. Man is thus afforded the
prime tool of the intellect - a Transcendent Standard
by which he may measure values in experience, anticipate
results, and make enlightened and visionary choices.

Only the unique and superior God-man Person can deserved-
ly displace the ego-person from his predicament and free
the individual to measure values and choose in a more
excellent way. That sublime Person was indicated in the
words of the prophet Amos, "...said the Lord, Behold,
I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel."
Y'shua Mashiyach Jesus said, "If I be lifted up I will
draw all men unto myself."

As long as some choose to abdicate their personal reality
and submit to the delusions of humanism, determinism, and
collectivism, just so long will they be subject and re-
acting only, to be tossed by every impulse emanating from
others. Those who abdicate such reality may, in perfect
justice, find themselves weighed in the balances of their
own choosing.

That human institution which is structured on the
principle, "...all men are endowed by their Creator with
...Liberty...," is a system with its roots in the natural
Order of the universe. The opponents of such a system are
necessarily engaged in a losing contest with nature and
nature's God. Biblical principles are still today the
foundation under Western Civilization and the American
way of life. To the advent of a new season we commend the
present generation and the "multitudes in the valley of
decision."

Let us proclaim it. Behold!
The Season of Generation-Choicemaker Joel 3:14 KJV

[Choicemaker]

CONTEMPORARY COMMENTS
"I should think that if there is one thing that man has
learned about himself it is that he is a creature of
choice." Richard M. Weaver

"Man is a being capable of subduing his emotions and
impulses; he can rationalize his behavior. He arranges
his wishes into a scale, he chooses; in short, he acts.
What distinguishes man from beasts is precisely that he
adjusts his behavior deliberately." Ludwig von Mises

"To make any sense of the idea of morality, it must be
presumed that the human being is responsible for his
actions and responsibility cannot be understood apart
from the presumption of freedom of choice."
John Chamberlain

"The advocate of liberty believes that it is complementary
of the orderly laws of cause and effect, of probability
and of chance, of which man is not completely informed.
It is complementary of them because it rests in part upon
the faith that each individual is endowed by his Creator
with the power of individual choice."
Wendell J. Brown

"These examples demonstrate a basic truth -- that human
dignity is embodied in the free choice of individuals."
Condoleeza Rice

"Our Founding Fathers believed that we live in an ordered
universe. They believed themselves to be a part of the
universal order of things. Stated another way, they
believed in God. They believed that every man must find
his own place in a world where a place has been made for
him. They sought independence for their nation but, more
importantly, they sought freedom for individuals to think
and act for themselves. They established a republic
dedicated to one purpose above all others - the preserva-
tion of individual liberty..." Ralph W. Husted

"We have the gift of an inner liberty so far-reaching
that we can choose either to accept or reject the God
who gave it to us, and it would seem to follow that the
Author of a liberty so radical wills that we should be
equally free in our relationships with other men.
Spiritual liberty logically demands conditions of outer
and social freedom for its completion." Edmund A. Opitz

"Above all I see an ability to choose the better from the
worse that has made possible life's progress."
Charles Lindbergh

"Freedom is the Right to Choose, the Right to create for
oneself the alternatives of Choice. Without the possibil-
ity of Choice, and the exercise of Choice, a man is not
a man but a member, an instrument, a thing."
Thomas Jefferson

THE QUESTION AND THE ANSWER
Q: "What is man that You are mindful of him, and the son
of man that You visit him?" Psalm 8:4
A: "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against
you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing
and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and
your descendants may live." Deuteronomy 30:19

Q: "Lord, what is man, that You take knowledge of him?
Or the son of man, that you are mindful of him?" Psalm
144:3
A: "And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose
for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the
gods which your fathers served that were on the other
side of the river, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose
land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will
serve the Lord." Joshua 24:15

Q: "What is man, that he could be pure? And he who is
born of a woman, that he could be righteous?" Job 15:14
A: "Who is the man that fears the Lord? Him shall He
teach in the way he chooses." Psalm 25:12

Q: "What is man, that You should magnify him, that You
should set Your heart on him?" Job 7:17
A: "Do not envy the oppressor and choose none of his
ways." Proverbs 3:31

Q: "What is man that You are mindful of him, or the son
of man that You take care of him?" Hebrews 2:6
A: "I have chosen the way of truth; your judgments I have
laid before me." Psalm 119:30 "Let Your hand become my
help, for I have chosen Your precepts."Psalm 119:173

References:
Genesis 3:3,6 Deuteronomy 11:26-28; 30:19 Job 5:23
Isaiah 7:14-15; 13:12; 61:1 Amos 7:8 Joel 3:14
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

DEDICATION

Sir Isaac Newton
The greatest scientist in human history
a Bible-Believing Christian
an authority on the Bible's Book of Daniel
committed to individual value
and individual liberty

Daniel 9:25-26 Habakkuk 2:2-3 selah

"What is man...?" Earth's Choicemaker Psalm 25:12

http://www.blogger.com/profile/4744267

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2728/

http://www.choicemaker.net/

jbaxter@choicemaker.net

An old/new paradigma - Mr. Jefferson would agree!
(Alternative? There is no alternative.)

+ + +

"Man cannot make or invent or contrive principles. He
can only discover them and he ought to look through the
discovery to the Author." -- Thomas Paine 1797

[DaveIn3D]

WTF? Did this thread just get hijacked?

-3D

[O.O.O.]

I suggest choicemaker not be given a choice - give him the boot!

Forever!

[03_SHOOTER]

Oh really? And why would you say that? Did you read his posts? While not "short and sweet", they do address the salient question of this thread.

[HairyEyeball]

63Bravo quoted G. Gordon Liddy:


Add in Liddys vehemence toward ATF agents in the Branch Davidian standoff, "Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests. ... Kill the sons of bitches.", you can see he is off the charts and far more dangerous than a Educator in a University.

He was right.

When agents of a branch of government - at least this government as intended - assault and murder citizens for exercising their Constitutional rights, those citizens have both the legal and moral obligation to resist, and if necessary, with deadly force. The fact that the BATFEIEIO and FBI, Louis Freih and Janet Reno were not charged with murder, violation of Posse Comitatus and various other felony and civil rights violations is only one of the disgraces of wet willie's administration.

Further, if the current coward-in-chief signs an executive order or otherwise mobilizes military or other federal personnel to forcibly restrict the rights of the citizenry, any who do not refuse to obey such unlawful order will find themselves at war with (at least a percentage of) their countrymen - citizens who have taken to heart the lessons of the murders at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

As to 'dangerous', apparently you are unfamiliar with any but a microscopically narrow definition of the term. An 'educator', by definition an 'authority figure' entrusted with the education of impressionable minds, who instead indoctrinates them with a false and destructive ideology dedicated to the overthrow of the very basis of the republic, who perverts the minds of those who may eventually lead the nation, is infinitely more 'dangerous' than some random thug (government sponsored or otherwise) with a backpack full of firearms and ammunition.

[dukesix]

Ayers may be a dead horse now, but just wait for the sleeping mole to wake up. One never knows when or how!! Never know a lepord to change it's spots.


Just wait SGM..he (Ayers) is going to be the next Secretary of Education! Wonderful.

Dukesix

[MikeNZ]

a lot to do..That is how people see the US:

http://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dumbfuckistanuz4.jpg

And I am more than happy Obama won!

MikeNZ

[HairyEyeball]

a lot to do..That is how people see the US:

http://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dumbfuckistanuz4.jpg

And I am more than happy Obama won!

MikeNZ

I can understand that - I'd be downright ecstatic if he had only won in New Zealand. You are, of course, welcome to him.

[MikeNZ]

Hahahah..sure we would take him. We have election coming up on Saturday, it will be just the opposite. We had Labour in charge (left wing) for 9 years and the whole country is gagging for a change to National (middle to right wing). Quite interesting to see..

[PhoenixCadet]

Hahahah..sure we would take him. We have election coming up on Saturday, it will be just the opposite. We had Labour in charge (left wing) for 9 years and the whole country is gagging for a change to National (middle to right wing). Quite interesting to see..

If you all are gaggin' for a change from the Left wing - you sure as hell wouldn't take Obama. He's America's farthest left senator.

[03_SHOOTER]

a lot to do..That is how people see the US:

http://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dumbfuckistanuz4.jpg

And I am more than happy Obama won!

MikeNZ

And we're supposed to give two shakes of a rabid rats a$$ what you think about America...WHY? Maybe we should just keep that $268 Million that the American tax payer sends down there to y'all EVERY YEAR to help prop up YOUR economy, and then we'll see what you think about us then?

[MikeNZ]

Many Americans I know are nice, decent people. Just a handful like you are war mongers, paranoid fu**ers that still have cave mentality. That attitude of we are the best, we are world police, where everyone jumps when you guys fart, is getting very annoying. No wonder the rest of the world hates the guts of you. Why is Bin Laden still out there? Can't or won't you find him? Best Intelligence in the world and can't find one man? My ass..

Check the news, most countries are happy Obama won. America has finally arrived.. Come on dude, move on from the dark ages to the 21st century. If everything would still be an eye for an eye, the world would be blind. As you will appreciate, I expressed my freedom of speech..(First Amendment..)

Mike NZ

[HairyEyeball]

Indeed, fool. Every islamofascist satrapy is happy (after all, he's one of them), france is happy, pissant colonies like New Zealand are happy - have you all selected the material for your burkhas yet? - and most of all, the parasites here who elected him are happy - they actually believe 'the chosen one' will provide them with everything by stealing it from the 'rich' who actually worked for it, while those workers' jobs go overseas, their employers close down, and the economy goes black market.

Not to imply you're an idiot, or don't know enough about your own history to fill a thimble, but refresh my memory, please: When, precisely, did New Zealand adopt a 'First Amendment'?

[03_SHOOTER]

Many Americans I know are nice, decent people. Just a handful like you are war mongers, paranoid fu**ers that still have cave mentality. That attitude of we are the best, we are world police, where everyone jumps when you guys fart, is getting very annoying. No wonder the rest of the world hates the guts of you. Why is Bin Laden still out there? Can't or won't you find him? Best Intelligence in the world and can't find one man? My ass..

Check the news, most countries are happy Obama won. America has finally arrived.. Come on dude, move on from the dark ages to the 21st century. If everything would still be an eye for an eye, the world would be blind. As you will appreciate, I expressed my freedom of speech..(First Amendment..)

Mike NZ

Mike, we ARE nice, decent people until someone messes with us, or our friends, and as I recall you and the rest of the world rather appreciated our "we ARE the best", and "world police" mentality, especially since WE'RE the one's pulling everyone elses a$$ out of the fire (or would you rather be speaking Japanese?).

You remind me of the morons who do nothing but complain about the Police, until someone mugs them, and then they complain about how long it takes the Police to get there. Truly sad.

Oh, and HE pointed out, you don't HAVE our First Amendment, and in fact your "Bill of Rights" hasn't even been codified. Also, since you missed it, you are still a SUBJECT of the British Crown, so you can take your attitude and sod off.

[StarLifter]

Many Americans I know are nice, decent people. Just a handful like you are war mongers, paranoid fu**ers that still have cave mentality. That attitude of we are the best, we are world police, where everyone jumps when you guys fart, is getting very annoying. No wonder the rest of the world hates the guts of you. Why is Bin Laden still out there? Can't or won't you find him? Best Intelligence in the world and can't find one man? My ass..

Check the news, most countries are happy Obama won. America has finally arrived.. Come on dude, move on from the dark ages to the 21st century. If everything would still be an eye for an eye, the world would be blind. As you will appreciate, I expressed my freedom of speech..(First Amendment..)

Mike NZ


Paranoid fu**ers that still have cave mentality? War mongers?

Hmmm... when's the last time that the U.S. waged war against another sovereign nation with the intent of gaining property or money? Oh, wait... never.

Whatever happened to the debts owed by several countries to the U.S. as war reparations from WWI and WWII? Oh yeah... that's right... they were forgiven.

As far as the 'we are the best' mentality... look up the word 'patriotism.' Maybe if you had a country to call home, you'd understand what that word means. However, since you're part of a colony that swears allegiance to an island nation, and pretty much exist for the sole profit of that country, I guess we can't really expect you to understand that term. That said, I guess you'd probably better understand the term 'acquiescence.'

As far as Osama Bin Laden... take a needle and drop it, not in a haystack, but in a stack of a bunch of other needles, and then find that EXACT needle again. Sounds easy, right? Guess we should've sent you on the hunt for the guy.

Furthermore, check your facts. The US is far from the attitude of 'we are the world police.' Last checked, that's what NATO was meant for.

George Washington was right -- we should've just stayed out of european affairs, and let you all stir in your own hell. But then, if we'd done that, rather than speak the queen's English, you'd either be speaking German, Italian, Japanese or Russian. Or did you forget how many of those 'war mongering caveman Americans' spilled blood in the Phillipeans, on Okinawa, on Normandy, in the Leyte Gulf, in various other pacific and atlantic campaigns, and then later on stood guard to help maintain the balance of power on this planet, just so you could sit back and insult their valor, courage and sacrifice?

No, I didn't vote for Obama, and no, I don't have the confidence that 'the rest of the world' has in the inexperienced politician. However, like a patriot, I'll stand to with everyone else and hope he does a good job. Of course, the biggest difference between these Americans and you is that even though we disagree with the final results, we'll still stand by them. Somehow, I have a feeling that if McCain had won the race, you'd be doing nothing but slandering his name.

Oh, and as for your little map, you may want to thank those who back when were among that red group you have listed as 'Dumbf*ckistan' for their contribution -- it's typically the Republican end that builds up the military in this country specifically in the hopes that its strength alone deters, and it's that Republican end that created that base of equipment which England was able to purchase from the democratic government during the initial european conflict in what became WWII.

It's interesting how other countries would willingly pin the blame on a superpower, but the minute they need help, they go running to it. Fortunately for you, this country won't remember the insult in the event you come running.

-- StarLifter

[PhilK]

Hmmm... when's the last time that the U.S. waged war against another sovereign nation with the intent of gaining property or money? Oh, wait... never.


1846-1848

I understand your passion, but be sure you are in the "right" before you tell someone else they are wrong.

[DaveIn3D]

1846-1848

I understand your passion, but be sure you are in the "right" before you tell someone else they are wrong.

Is this a 'gotcha' moment?

The Mexicans were defeated by the republic of Texas in years prior. Texas joined the U.S. after beating that Mexican ass. The mexicans were pissed about the Texas thing and decided they wanted the texas land back. Fortunately for the U.S., that ambition coincided with our own plans of buying the Pacific from mexico. But instead of buying, we just beat that mexican ass again and told them to give it to us.

I wouldnt say that we 'didnt' start a war about money but I wont say that it was completely one-sided either. Both countries are to blame.

I would have gone with the Spanish-american war as a case for American imperialism. The yellow newspapers got us into that conflict and we ended up beating Spanish ass and starting our first and only colony outside the U.S. in the phillipines. It was the newspapers wanting stories to write (..MONEY...) who sensationalized the Maine incident and got the country into that war..

-3D

[PhilK]

The Mexicans were defeated by the republic of Texas in years prior. Texas joined the U.S. after beating that Mexican ass. The mexicans were pissed about the Texas thing and decided they wanted the texas land back. Fortunately for the U.S., that ambition coincided with our own plans of buying the Pacific from mexico. But instead of buying, we just beat that mexican ass again and told them to give it to us.



Not quite.

In 1836 Texas won it's independance from Mexico, in 1845 Texas was admitted into the United States. Mexico was upset about the inclusion of Texas into the US, and cut off dimplomatic ties with the US. This issue grew even worse when there was a border dispute over the land between the Nueces and Rio Grande River. Texas (and the US) said that the Rio Grande was the border, Mexico said that the Nueces River was the border. The US then moved an Army under the command of Gen. Taylor in the disputed area. A skirmish occured and then war was declared.

The goal of the US was to get the diputed area and also get Mexico to sell New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, California (basiclly the entire southwest) to the US. The battle cry was "Manifest Destiny".

Once the battle began and an Army under Gen. Scott marched into the heart of Mexico and took Mexico City. Then the diplomats took over again and we not only paid for the Southwest land but for the damage done.

So, in the end it was a land grab, the war itself is an interesting study, but the reasons behind the war were all political. (Moreso then other wars)

[StarLifter]

Well, in that case I stand corrected.

My apologies in the one transgression. The point though in that case is that the US rarely fought wars with results being land grabs.

Even with my one statement being incorrect, I fail to see how our history shows us to be intentionally belligerant. This country does not have a consistant history of picking fights, unlike places like Germany and Japan. Yet because we're in the spotlight as a superpower, we're the ones crucified. Yet, at the same time, in the event of a crisis, we'd be the first to offer aid. It blows my mind that we're still willing to turn the other cheek after the snubs we've received in the past. Not that it's a bad thing, I just find it a little difficult to understand.

-- StarLifter

[HairyEyeball]

Not to take undue satisfaction in some of our 'friends' finally getting what they sorely deserve, but given the track record of the coward-in-chief-elect, it may not be farfetched to anticipate that when nations we have long protected and supported are attacked - by islamofascism, by the resurgent eurasian communist movement, by some new unanticipated threat - Barrack Hussein will be more than happy to sit down and negotiate them away.

It may be overemphasizing the obvious, but anyone with two live neurons to rub together to stimulate a thought need only run down the list of nations and leaders 'hoping' the socialist liar would win and rejoicing that he did are the very ones terrified of a United States getting its chit together and again following its Constitution and moral compass.

[FeelinFroggy]

I request Mr. New Zealand be told to respect the veterans on this board or leave.

Calling an American Veteran a "war monger" does not sit well with me and to be honest I'm quite f**king pissed about it.