The October Surprise

[pingjocky]

Is Obama an American citizen? This video seems to present facts that he is not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyspCRmJv7w

R/
Pingjocky

[SGM]

If he is, what's the problem? Just produce the evidence. I know I produced when I joined!!

[PaulR]

I am sure that his citizenship/place of birth was heavily scrutinized before he started the bid for office. But... wouldn't it be great if it was true?! :)

[Machine]

Word on the street is that there is a video out there of Michelle Obama giving a speech, with none other than Louis Farakan in attendance, that could torpedo her husband's campaign below the water line. Supposedly due to be released next week. We shall see....

[63Bravo]

Is Obama an American citizen? This video seems to present facts that he is not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyspCRmJv7w

R/
Pingjocky

Hmmm, seeing as he has traveled outside the US on occasion, which requires a Passport, which requires proof of citizenship(US Passport Requirements (http://www.visahq.com/us_passport_requirements.php)), I would have to go out on the proverbial limb and say that he is in fact a US citizen.

Its comical to set and watch what is going on in this election. Both sides are more concerned with trivial issues instead of focusing on the sinking economy.

[pingjocky]

he is in fact a US citizen.


But is he a Natural Born Citizen as required? You can get a passport without being a natural born citizen. From the same site that you posted:

You can prove your US citizenship with one of the following:

* Original Birth Certificate (if born in the United States);
* or Old (undamaged) passport;
* or Original Certificate of Citizenship or FS-240, DS-1350 ( if born outside the US );
* or Original Certificate of Naturalization issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Office.



The question is not whether his is a citizen or not...it is whether he is a natural born citizen as required. For that, he needs a birth certificate.

R/
Pingjocky

[63Bravo]

But is he a Natural Born Citizen as required? You can get a passport without being a natural born citizen. From the same site that you posted:



The question is not whether his is a citizen or not...it is whether he is a natural born citizen as required. For that, he needs a birth certificate.

R/
Pingjocky

Ok, if it is semantics you want to play, why not just post the photocopy of his Hawaiian Birth Certificate that he produced ? I know this is hard detective work, but it can be done with the aid of Google.

Do people in this country actually think that in the years prior to Obama getting the Democratic Nomination for President that nobody in the chain of people required to check the nominees credentials didn't find or were not giving all of the needed documentation?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg

[03_SHOOTER]

Ok, if it is semantics you want to play, why not just post the photocopy of his Hawaiian Birth Certificate that he produced ? I know this is hard detective work, but it can be done with the aid of Google.

Do people in this country actually think that in the years prior to Obama getting the Democratic Nomination for President that nobody in the chain of people required to check the nominees credentials didn't find or were not giving all of the needed documentation?

Bravo, I believe you're missing a salient part of the discussion. It's not whether or not he has a birth certificate, it's whether or not the birth certificate is LEGITIMATE.

The question is whether or not he was actually born in Hawaii or not. The suit claims that his parents went to Kenya, but that when they were ready to return, his mother was not allowed to board the aircraft as she was "too far along", which was common practice in the 50's and 60's, which means that he was born in Kenya, and then a few days later brought back to Hawaii where his birth was "registered", as if he had been born at home. Add to that, the fact that there are no medical billing records, or for that matter medical files for his mother at either of the hospitals on Hawaii at the time of his birth. Also, his paternal grandmother, and at least 2 of his other relatives have already sworn that he was born in Kenya.

Given that his parents weren't legally married (his father was still married to 3 other women in Kenya), under US law in 1961, citizenship followed the father in the case of illigitimate children, and as his father is Kenyan, his citizenship is Kenyan.

[63Bravo]

Bravo, I believe you're missing a salient part of the discussion. It's not whether or not he has a birth certificate, it's whether or not the birth certificate is LEGITIMATE.

The question is whether or not he was actually born in Hawaii or not. The suit claims that his parents went to Kenya, but that when they were ready to return, his mother was not allowed to board the aircraft as she was "too far along", which was common practice in the 50's and 60's, which means that he was born in Kenya, and then a few days later brought back to Hawaii where his birth was "registered", as if he had been born at home. Add to that, the fact that there are no medical billing records, or for that matter medical files for his mother at either of the hospitals on Hawaii at the time of his birth. Also, his paternal grandmother, and at least 2 of his other relatives have already sworn that he was born in Kenya.

Given that his parents weren't legally married (his father was still married to 3 other women in Kenya), under US law in 1961, citizenship followed the father in the case of illigitimate children, and as his father is Kenyan, his citizenship is Kenyan.
Oh believe me, I havent missed any of the talking points on this issue. What you and others it seems are missing, is the simple fact that in the 4 years or so that he has expressed an interest in running for the highest office in our country, no one in that process has stopped him. My statement from my other post, "Do people in this country actually think that in the years prior to Obama getting the Democratic Nomination for President that nobody in the chain of people required to check the nominees credentials didn't find or were not giving all of the needed documentation?", still stands, and so far, no one has been able to refute that.

By virtue of the system in place, it seems that since he is in fact the Democratic Nominee for President of the United States that he has met all qualifying requirements to seek the office, period.

[03_SHOOTER]

Oh believe me, I havent missed any of the talking points on this issue. What you and others it seems are missing, is the simple fact that in the 4 years or so that he has expressed an interest in running for the highest office in our country, no one in that process has stopped him. My statement from my other post, "Do people in this country actually think that in the years prior to Obama getting the Democratic Nomination for President that nobody in the chain of people required to check the nominees credentials didn't find or were not giving all of the needed documentation?", still stands, and so far, no one has been able to refute that.

By virtue of the system in place, it seems that since he is in fact the Democratic Nominee for President of the United States that he has met all qualifying requirements to seek the office, period.

OK, first things first, I resent the implication that I'm "missing" anything, or that I even believe any of this, especially as I have taken no position on the subject one way or the other. All I have done is clarify some salient aspects of the issue that you failed to address in an effort to DISCUSS the subject.

Secondly, there is no requirement for Senators to have a Security Clearance, of any level, so background checks are, by military standards, cursory at best, so your assertion that any checks have been done on them is highly dubious given that there is absolutely no record of him having so much as a Confidential clearance, and believe me, I've looked. As one who used to carry a Top Secret clearance, under military requirements, I can guarantee you that Sen. Obama would be consider himself VERY lucky to be granted a Secret clearance, and there's no way, given his associations with all of the various nefarious characters he's befriended over the years that he would ever be granted a Top Secret one. To the best of my knowledge, and again I have looked, the only members of Congress that do have security clearances are those on the various special committees dealing specifically with Intelligence issues. Everyone else is merely operating under their oaths to not divulge anything they have seen or heard in their meetings, not that dissimilar to a Judge's 'gag order'.

Now, if you have evidence to present that he does in fact have any higher security clearance whatsoever, please produce it, otherwise the subject is in fact still open for discussion.

I also note the complete lack of any rebuttal on your part concerning the specifics mentioned in the lawsuit concerning the assertion that Sen. Obama was in fact born in Kenya and then transported back to Hawaii and his birth being registered then. I also note that you have not addressed his adoption by his Indonesian step-father, or for that matter, ANY of the other assertions in the lawsuit. Is there any particular reason for your failure to address those issues?

[63Bravo]

OK, first things first, I resent the implication that I'm "missing" anything, or that I even believe any of this, especially as I have taken no position on the subject one way or the other. All I have done is clarify some salient aspects of the issue that you failed to address in an effort to DISCUSS the subject.

Secondly, there is no requirement for Senators to have a Security Clearance, of any level, so background checks are, by military standards, cursory at best, so your assertion that any checks have been done on them is highly dubious given that there is absolutely no record of him having so much as a Confidential clearance, and believe me, I've looked. As one who used to carry a Top Secret clearance, under military requirements, I can guarantee you that Sen. Obama would be consider himself VERY lucky to be granted a Secret clearance, and there's no way, given his associations with all of the various nefarious characters he's befriended over the years that he would ever be granted a Top Secret one. To the best of my knowledge, and again I have looked, the only members of Congress that do have security clearances are those on the various special committees dealing specifically with Intelligence issues. Everyone else is merely operating under their oaths to not divulge anything they have seen or heard in their meetings, not that dissimilar to a Judge's 'gag order'.

Now, if you have evidence to present that he does in fact have any higher security clearance whatsoever, please produce it, otherwise the subject is in fact still open for discussion.

I also note the complete lack of any rebuttal on your part concerning the specifics mentioned in the lawsuit concerning the assertion that Sen. Obama was in fact born in Kenya and then transported back to Hawaii and his birth being registered then. I also note that you have not addressed his adoption by his Indonesian step-father, or for that matter, ANY of the other assertions in the lawsuit. Is there any particular reason for your failure to address those issues?

I was not speaking of his Senate term or clearances. I was speaking specifically of his pursuit of the highest office in the land, the President of the United States. Now, seeing as I have never ran for that office, I would have to assume that there is someone, somewhere, who's job it is to fact check every aspect of a candidates qualifications to be the President and to make sure that they do in fact make the cut. Now, surely all that fact checking would be done prior to that person receiving their parties nomination wouldn't you think?

Yet, here we are, 8 days before the voting takes place, and so far no one from either party has produced any compelling evidence to the contrary that Obama is indeed eligible to sit upon the highest seat in our nation. That personally speaks volumes to me.

[SGM]

Also you have to go to the law to see what are the requirements for the parent in order for their child to be considered a "natural born" citizen. Here also lies another underlying question not answered. It is one thing to be a citizen, another to be a natural born citizen.

[03_SHOOTER]

I was not speaking of his Senate term or clearances. I was speaking specifically of his pursuit of the highest office in the land, the President of the United States. Now, seeing as I have never ran for that office, I would have to assume that there is someone, somewhere, who's job it is to fact check every aspect of a candidates qualifications to be the President and to make sure that they do in fact make the cut. Now, surely all that fact checking would be done prior to that person receiving their parties nomination wouldn't you think?

Yet, here we are, 8 days before the voting takes place, and so far no one from either party has produced any compelling evidence to the contrary that Obama is indeed eligible to sit upon the highest seat in our nation. That personally speaks volumes to me.

You're forgetting that it was a scant 2 years ago when Obama announce his candidacy for POTUS, which would require him to have the status of a "natural born citizen" under Title 8 USC. After over a year of trying to investigate Obama, despite his steadfast refusal to divulge his personal records that should have answered the questions, Democrat attorney Philip Berg finally filed suit in August of this year to demand that they questions be addressed by Sen. Obama.

[03_SHOOTER]

Also you have to go to the law to see what are the requirements for the parent in order for their child to be considered a "natural born" citizen. Here also lies another underlying question not answered. It is one thing to be a citizen, another to be a natural born citizen.

Those requirements would be found HERE (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html), and is a major part of the problem due to the fact that Title 8, as it exists now, was not the law in 1961 when Obama was born. At that time, the citizenship of an illigitimate child (since his parent's weren't legally married due to Barack Sr's still being married to a Kenyan woman) followed the father's citizenship, not the mothers, which means that if Obama was in fact born in Kenya, he would be a Kenyan, not an American citizen, regardless of his mothers citizenship.

All that would be necessary to answer these questions, and put the entire issue to bed once and for all would be for Obama to authroize the release of his mothers medical records from the hospital in Hawaii, showing where she was admitted to the hospital maternaty ward, and recording Baracks birth in that hospital, so the question is, why hasn't he done so?