Direct Commissioning: What's your Opinion?

[PhoenixCadet]

All,

I've been researching Navy Reserve officer opportunities for myself, and for a non-prior service guy, they're all direct commission appointments. My question to you is simply, "whats your opinion on direct commission officers"?

I'm asking this because I've seen on a few other forums (Military.com, for one) that a good few of people look down to them because they don't carry the same amount of training as an officer that wasn't directly commissioned. (According to the officer recruiting sites I've seen, training for direct commission officers is signifigantly less than those who wern't directly commissioned).

I would hope this isn't the case.

Thanks,

-PC

[pingjocky]

We've had the "prior enlisted" debate several times before...granted they were all lost on the old forum.

Politically Correct: It is based on the person. A brand new O-1 can be $hit-hot, while an O-1E with 15 years in can be a douche-bag. HOWEVER, that is rarely the case. In my experience the hair-head-hippie-college-boys-wanna-be-officers are the douche-bags while the squared away First Class or Chief who is selected for LDO (or another officer program) usually is a better officer.

It's different for each branch, and each community within that branch...then further differing by the type of commission obtained, and further differing again by the person.

R/
Pingjocky

[PhoenixCadet]

Pingjockey,

Please forgive me if my terminology's off, but I'm not necessarily talking about prior-enlistedmen commissioning. I'm simply referring to what I've read regarding a direct commissioned officer (at least in the USNR) receiving a much smaller amount of training than those who would commission through ROTC or OCS.

This is the program I'm referring to: https://www.netc.navy.mil/nstc/otcn/Schoolhouses/DCO/index.htm

According to the website, it's only 12 days long.

Thanks,

-PC

[PhilK]

From the Army side of the house, the direct commission is the least prefered.

You bypass the basics that ROTC or OCS cover and head straight to your Officer Basic Course, which means you are already behind the power curve because they are expecting you to know the things they teach in a traditional commissioning source program.

I have known four different officers who got direct commissions, two were into Medical Service Corps, two were into the Adjutant General Corps. They have managed to pull it off, but they fought an uphill battle to get there.

[pingjocky]

Gotcha...that's the course for guys / gals who are already professionals in their chosen course of study (medical, legal, etc...). My wife who is an RN can take a direct commission into the Nurse Corps and be a LT (O-3) automatically due to her experience and prior education. They're an "officer" in the technical sense, but lack skills that traditional officers are expected to have. They are awarded the paygrade due to skill sets they posses.

R/
Pingjocky

[PhilK]

Just to calrify from the Army side (again).

In the Army, there are two direct commissioning paths. The first one is for professionals as ping pointed out (Doctors, Lawyers, Chaplains) and then there is the a direct commissioning program for NCOs with degrees who are endorsed by their chain of command to bypass a traditional comissioning source program.

[SlightlyCatholic]

As somebody who is planning on becoming a military chaplain, I'd need to go the direct commission route. Lawyers, Medicals, and Chaplains are given rank for the sole purpose of managing their peers. The Chaplain Corps, for example, is basically self-sufficient. Chaplains train other chaplains, evaluate other chaplains, and promote other chaplains. However, overall staff commanders/ commanding officers have a say in the evaluation of the individual chaplain.

I spent three and a half years in Sea Cadets, and while it was just a cadet program, it helped me immensly to understand just how badly things can get screwed up when officers either a) treat enlisted badly or b) don't let senior enlisted do their jobs. Those lessons will no doubt help me if I do ever find myself as a new military chaplain.

I think the Direct Commissioning (from what it looks like) can be dangerous if other extensive "in the field" training isn't used to augment it.

[Javelin66]

Direct commissions for non-professionals are extremely rare in the Army, and are not the norm in other services either. A direct commissionee goes through no pre commissioning training (OCS, ROTC, service acadamy, or prior enlistment). They are appointed, often at senior grades, due to their professional training, expertise, or experience.

I am not aware of any Army program to directly commission NCOs with degrees. NCOs and junior enlisted soldiers in this category compete for an OCS slot. OCS is a pre-commissioning program.

This does not mean that they do not go through an officer basic course of some sort.

As a hair-head-hippie-college-boy-wanna-be, who is apparently also a douche-bag, I obviously have a slightly different opinion on what makes a better officer. My experience is just the opposite, in fact.

I have found that quite often prior service OCS officers never seem to make the transition to commissioned leader, and try to lead their sections and platoons either as a senior NCO or as some sort of union leader for the enlisted personnel.

In other words, instead of leading their platoon, they are either trying to do the platoon sergeants job, trying to be the best squad leader in the platoon, or trying to show the men that they are just one of the guys. In doing so they are neglecting their actual duties. Officer leadership is not the same as NCO leadership.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Direct commissions for non-professionals are extremely rare in the Army, and are not the norm in other services either. A direct commissionee goes through no pre commissioning training (OCS, ROTC, service acadamy, or prior enlistment). They are appointed, often at senior grades, due to their professional training, expertise, or experience.

Javelin,

I was under the impression that any and all Direct Commissions were given to professionals. Could you give an example of a non-professional getting one?

[Javelin66]

Anyone that possesses a unique skill set or experience but is not a professional (doctor, lawyer, etc) in the stricest sense. Scientists, those with high demand technical skills or academic background. Essentially, anyone recognized as an expert in a field for which the military has an urgent need and cannot wait to 'grow' through traditional methods, or would be so few in numbers that it would not be practical to start a new accessions program.

They are commissioned because their duties will entail a great level of responsibility (not necessarily leadership), and a commissioned rank would give them the appropriate level of esteem (not to mention that an esteemed scientist is not going to rush to join the Army as a private).

[HairyEyeball]

Direct commissions for non-professionals are extremely rare in the Army, and are not the norm in other services either. A direct commissionee goes through no pre commissioning training (OCS, ROTC, service acadamy, or prior enlistment). They are appointed, often at senior grades, due to their professional training, expertise, or experience.

I am not aware of any Army program to directly commission NCOs with degrees. NCOs and junior enlisted soldiers in this category compete for an OCS slot. OCS is a pre-commissioning program.

This does not mean that they do not go through an officer basic course of some sort.

As a hair-head-hippie-college-boy-wanna-be, who is apparently also a douche-bag, I obviously have a slightly different opinion on what makes a better officer. My experience is just the opposite, in fact.

I have found that quite often prior service OCS officers never seem to make the transition to commissioned leader, and try to lead their sections and platoons either as a senior NCO or as some sort of union leader for the enlisted personnel.

In other words, instead of leading their platoon, they are either trying to do the platoon sergeants job, trying to be the best squad leader in the platoon, or trying to show the men that they are just one of the guys. In doing so they are neglecting their actual duties. Officer leadership is not the same as NCO leadership.

Insofar as you haven't inconvenienced yourself to fill out your 'dog tag' and the only autobiographical data I've seen from you is the above quoted, I can't help but wonder precisely what 'experience' you draw on to reach your conclusions. Given the preceeding, one might be excused for taking such lightly.

[PhilK]

I am not aware of any Army program to directly commission NCOs with degrees. NCOs and junior enlisted soldiers in this category compete for an OCS slot.

Unless the NCO is too close to the age limit for OCS. The latest direct commissioned officer I know (who sits in my office on a daily basis) was an E-6, with a MBA and had expressed an interest in OCS. The decision to have him submit a direct commission packet instead of requesting an age waiver for OCS was made. Now he is a Medical Service Corps 2LT waiting for his BOLC.

One correction...this direct commissioning program is only available to Reserve and National Guard NCOs. AR 135-100 (http://www.apd.army.mil//pdffiles/r135_100.pdf) is the governing Reg.

If it is open to the AD, I have not found a reliable source yet.

[pingjocky]

As a hair-head-hippie-college-boy-wanna-be, who is apparently also a douche-bag

If you want to be offended by what I said, have a big time.

Notice that I quantified my statements by "in my experience." I also pointed out that it differs by branch/community/selection program/ and by person. So what that means is if you're a non-douche-bag, great for you.

R/
Pingjocky

[Javelin66]

I'm not offended. I took your statement for what it was, a broad overgeneralization with a disclaimer thrown in just in case you did offend someone (this only applies to douchebags, so if you disagree you must be a douchebag.)

I replied because your overgeneralization was so broad that it may mislead a young cadet who is trying to figure out which path to commissioning is appropriate for him. I was being sarcastic. Next time I will use a smiley so you can tell.;)

[mtnsldr]

One of the best officers in my unit in Iraq was a DC E-5 Infantry type with a degree. He put in his packet, waiting something like 2.5 years (long enough to assume they bailed on him) and then finally got picked up. He essentially did it just to see what would happen.

He got picked up, commissioned right after me, and ended up being deep in the most hardcore stuff we saw in 04. He is a true leader, and more than able to do any job as an officer. He'll also probably leave before he makes O-4 because he can't stand the bureacracy.

[SGM]

I know a guy who was enlisted, went DC , then retired before making 04. I think he was the same.

[BronzeGoat]

Trust me, I spent the last year trying to decide between WOCS, OCS, Green-to-Gold, and the Nurse and Physician's Assistant programs and the Active Duty Army does not currently run a line officer Direct Commission program--for commissioned officers. There have been direct appointments to WO grades in recent years for certain fields. But then, that wouldn't be considered a Direct Commission program anyway, considering it is a direct appointment as WO1.