Promotion Method Variations

[PhoenixCadet]

So, I'm curious as to what everyone's stance on this subject is. I know CAP and JROTC promote their Cadets through extremely different methods, and I wanted to know which you prefer, what you'd change, if you think your program should be different (in terms of promotion methods), etc.

For Civil Air Patrol, a Cadet starts out at Cadet Airman Basic (AB is the Air Force's E-1 rank). You earn each promotion through testing. Each promotion requires you to take a leadership examination, an aerospace examination, a PT test (and depending on your squadron, a verbal review board). There is no advancement based on billet, and each Cadet must pass through each rank.

With JROTC (and please, correct me if I'm wrong), but it's based off of billet. In this way, a Cadet can come into the year, for example, as a C/A1C, advance directly to C/SSgt, then in the same year, back down to a C/A1C again.

I personally feel CAP's method is better because I don't care much for promotion based off what position you're in. I feel every Cadet should start at the bottom and work their way through each hoop.

What say you?

-PC

[C/SSGT Seifer]

I don't exactly know what you mean by billet, however every cadet in their first year starts as a basic (PVT w/o insignia) and builds there way up to higher ranks through activities within the battalion, such as drill/raider activity, community service, and parades. Once a cadet reaches C/SGT they must go through a, "Promotion Board," where they are evaluated on leadership, knowledge (about the program,) as well as overall grades. In my battalion grades weigh heavily on the rank that you have. For example you will never see a Cadet First Sergeant who is failing a class. I really can't say that I like either of the two promotion methods, because I have only experienced one.

[El Supremo]

At our school promotions work like this:

1. All cadets regardless of graduation year or age, begin as a C/Private (C/PV1). Their first promotion is automatic upon passing their first uniform inspection. Promotions from C/corporal (C/CPL) and under go through the company chain of command (Company Commander being the last signature on the sheet) and cadets promoted based upon their Chain of Command's assesment of them; as it turns out, peer evaluation happens to be a very harsh system.

Company promotions Corporal and under function like so:
1.Squad leader reccomendaton
2.Platoon Sergeant Reccomendation
3.Platoon Leader Reccomendation
4.First Sergeant Reccomendation
5.Com. Executive Officer Reccomendation
6.Company Commander approval

The promotion form is sent to the S-1; whom files the Promotion in the JROTCJUMS Network, prints out the order form, and Gives it to the S-4. The S-4 then takes the order form with him/her to the supply room to retrieve the rank, and records that a set of rank has been withdrawn, and then gives the rank to the company commander, to promote the cadet after the end of the Uniform Inspection.

For C/Sergeant(C/SGT) through (C/1SG)First Sergeant; it runs through the Battalion Chain of command. It works verys similiar only before the Company Commaders approval, the Command Sergeant Major must assess the cadet, give his/her approval, and then give the promotion form to the Company Commander whom gives it to the Battalion Commander, for his/her approval. Then the staff process takes over after the proper signatures have been made.

For Officer rank, the cadet's commander must make an assesment of the cadet, fill out a commission sheet, get every Staff Officer's signature on the Commission form, and have the Battalion Commander approve the reccomendation. Then the staff process takes over.

Cadets are promoted for various things as you have states, paticularly cadets whom demonste ROTC's "Whole Person" concept are the one's whom are reccomended for rank.

Rank can be taken or delayed based upon a cadet's academic stature. If a cadet is failing his classes then that cadet may not be reccomended for promotion.(a Background check is dones on the cadet's grades, and permanent record for disciplinary actions taken against the cadet). Failing one class for an enlisted/NCO cadet results in BUS probation; meaning the cadet cannot be promoted, until the cadet is passing all classes, two classes results in a reduction in grade. Officer cadets is stricter, one class results in a reduction in grade (If the cadet is a C/second lieutenant(C/2LT) then he is reduced to C/Sergeant Major(SGM)), two classes or more and the cadet is reduced all the way down to C/Private (PV1). If an Officer cadet fails Cadet Challenge, he/she is also reduced one grade.

At the end of the school year, an Awards/Promotion board takes place, In which a cadet must formally report to a board, are asked a series of questions by the AI, SAI, BN CDR, BN XO, CSM, and a guest, and are asked to perform basic unarmed drill. Academics, Physical fitness, and Military bearing are three categories taken into consideration with the plus of Moral Integrity added into the mix; Cadets that have been to ISS/OSS, Detention, are failing classes must report to the board but may recieve no rank upon next year.

[Buffa1oso1di3r]

At my school, promotions are as such:

All cadets begin the year as C/PV1, and around the beginning of the next Semester (quarter), they are promoted to C/PV2, however, promotions to C/PV2 may be stalled due to problems with a cadet.

At the end of the year (Semester), Cadets are promoted to C/PFC or C/CPL, depending on performance.

For promotions to NCO which are not appointments, all cadets need to go through a promotion board, and need a 90% or above to pass.

Ranks above C/SSG may be given by appointment; however, some may need to go in front of promotion boards.

If a C/SFC does well enough as a Platoon Sergeant, they may be promoted to C/MSG or C/2LT.

If a C/1SG does well as a Company First Sergeant, they may be promoted to C/SGM.

All officer ranks are appointments depending on position, however, if a cadet has spent enough time in rank, they may be promoted, however, that rank cannot exceed the rank of the Battalion Commander.

[TruBlu]

Currently at my school, there isn't a set method for attaining rank. The only real requirement for any rank is a Cadet Officer Leadership School for officership. I am currently working to change this and develop a more CAP like promotion system. Testing like the CAP does promotes all aspects of the program and can really weed out cadets that don't want to participate in everything that should be participated in.

So that's what I am working on for my AFJROTC unit, and hopefully it will turn out well. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm just tired of people earning rank just because they show up for class or "did something good." Its like giving a piece of candy to a little kid, if you don't keep giving them more, they just get all pissy and cry about it until you give them more to shut them up. :mad:

[Armed Drill Addict]

As much as this year's staff is trying to change it. The regualtion for a cadet to advance is that they must pass a test on general knowledge and they must have a certain G.P.A. I dislike this system because it places no emphasis on being able to drill, command, or pass inspection. I myself have pushed both my SNSI and my NSI to alter our promotion methods but they will not budge.

[AFKaydet]

-Takes a deep breath- Okay, Here I go:

I’ve been to two different units for AFJROTC, and they both do things radically different when it comes to promotion.

For my first unit for the ranks of Cadet Airman Basic to the rank of Cadet Senior Airman it depended upon how well you did in school (based off grades and behavior). From this point on a person was required to not only continue to do well in school but also to participate in some AFJROTC activities and community service things and to take a test. Depending on the Rank Area (NCO, SNCO, General Officer, and Field Officer) you were testing for decided what material a person had to know and how many questions your test would be. The test in itself was 70% of the points that could be allocated for your promotion. 20% was based off of the amount of awards you had earned/been awarded, and the final 10% was based off of your school grades and behavior.

Now at my new school it is completely different and to put bluntly, sucks. A person is given their permanent rank at the end of every year, as is required. However for temporary rank it depends on three things. The first, your position. If you do not have a position (and are not in Senior Staff) the highest rank you could probably get is Cadet Master Sergeant. Most people in Senior Staff are automatically given the rank of Cadet Second Lieutenant unless the totally screw up. The second is how well you do in school, behavior, that sort of thing. The third and final thing is how much the SASI likes you. If you are a good leader but he doesn’t like you as a person (meaning you are too uptight, too lax, too (anything really) you are highly unlikely to get a promotion to a high rank, or any serious jobs at all.

I must point out before I end, however, that the last one is more how it seems to the cadet’s then official policy. For any official policy for promotions at my second unit, there really is none. Or at least none that has been shared with the cadets. The last item however is based on observation of cadet’s who have been extremely active and are good leaders but have angered the SASI in one way or the other and have thenceforth never been promoted as high as their peers.

-Exhales and Takes another deep breath- Thus endeth the lesson

[PhoenixCadet]

Well, I was flat out wrong, wasn't I? :D

I could've sworn that all JROTC units utilized the same promotion method. I guess not. Speaking from personal opinion (given I'm not in JROTC), I'd favor standardization of promotion methods. If one Cadet in one unit does it one way, and other Cadets in thier units do it another way, I feel they're not getting the same from JROTC as if it was standard.

YMMV.

-PC

[AFCougar]

Well, I was flat out wrong, wasn't I? :D

I could've sworn that all JROTC units utilized the same promotion method. I guess not. Speaking from personal opinion (given I'm not in JROTC), I'd favor standardization of promotion methods. If one Cadet in one unit does it one way, and other Cadets in thier units do it another way, I feel they're not getting the same from JROTC as if it was standard.

YMMV.

-PC


I absolutely hate how there is no standardization with the units, but it might be better this way, because when you get to intermingle with different units at places like SLS (Summer Leadership School), you can bounce different ideas off each other to improve aspects of your own unit.

How promotions at my unit work are as follows:

We have Promotion Tests for:
C/Airman Basic - C/Airman First Class
C/Senior Airman - C/Staff Sergeant
C/Technical Sergeant - C/Master Sergeant or C/Senior Master Sergeant (Depends on if someone is C/Chief Master Sergeant)
C/Senior Master Sergeant or C/Chief Master Sergeant - C/ Lieutenant Sergeant (Again, depends if someone is C/Chief Master Sergeant)
Note: Those are the ranks of the cadets, not the rank they are being promoted to.
Note: Cadets going for Staff Sergeant or above must know all 30 Drill Commands in order to be promoted. If they do not know all of them, their test is invalid and they can not be promoted.

On the test, is General Knowledge, things from our Cadet Guide, the National and Local Chain of Command, and the 30 Drill Commands. The tests average about 70 questions, excluding the 30 Drill Commands.

Cadets going for the rank of Master Sergeant or higher have to go to a Promotion Board.

The Flight Commanders and Flight Sergeants each have to fill out Cadet Evaluation Forms for the Cadets in their Flight. They grade on Preparation for Class, Participation, etc. There is a space left for Comments about the Cadet, and at the bottom the Flight Commander and Flight Sergeant say Yes if they reccomentd the Cadet for Promotion or no if they do not.

After that, the Personnel Officer checks their record for LOC's and LOR's, and if they have any Service or Activity Ribbons.

All of this information is compiled into a Promotion Matrix, each with a respective percentage. For example, the Promotion Test counts for 25% and the Drill Commands count for 20%. Points are taken off for LOC's and LOR's, and if you have been to ISS (In School Suspension) more than twice, you are not able to be promoted.

Also, you must go through the ranks to be promoted. You are not Promoted upon Positions. Only in certain circumstances, you can skip a rank.

Some people would say that this is a difficult system to be promoted in, but we aren't Distinguished Unit w/ Merit for nothing.

[TruBlu]

I absolutely hate how there is no standardization with the units, but it might be better this way, because when you get to intermingle with different units at places like SLS (Summer Leadership School), you can bounce different ideas off each other to improve aspects of your own unit.

How promotions at my unit work are as follows:

We have Promotion Tests for:
Airman Basic - Airman First Class
Senior Airman - Staff Sergeant
Technical Sergeant - Senior Master Sergeant
Officers
Note: Those are the ranks of the cadets, not the rank they are being promoted to.
Note: Cadets going for Staff Sergeant or above must know all 30 Drill Commands in order to be promoted. If they do not know all of them, their test is invalid and they can not be promoted.

On the test, is General Knowledge, things from our Cadet Guide, the National and Local Chain of Command, and the 30 Drill Commands. The tests average about 70 questions, excluding the 30 Drill Commands.

Cadets going for the rank of Master Sergeant or higher have to go to a Promotion Board.

The Flight Commanders and Flight Sergeants each have to fill out Cadet Evaluation Forms for the Cadets in their Flight. They grade on Preparation for Class, Participation, etc. There is a space left for Comments about the Cadet, and at the bottom the Flight Commander and Flight Sergeant say Yes if they reccomentd the Cadet for Promotion or no if they do not.

After that, the Personnel Officer checks their record for LOC's and LOR's, and if they have any Service or Activity Ribbons.

All of this information is compiled into a Promotion Matrix, each with a respective percentage. For example, the Promotion Test counts for 25% and the Drill Commands count for 20%. Points are taken off for LOC's and LOR's, and if you have been to ISS (In School Suspension) more than twice, you are not able to be promoted.

Also, you must go through the ranks to be promoted. You are not Promoted upon Positions. Only in certain circumstances, you can skip a rank.

Some people would say that this is a difficult system to be promoted in, but we aren't Distinguished Unit w/ Merit for nothing.

Very thorough! I like it a lot, especially the ISS part. In my unit, plenty of people, even a few high NCOs and a particular officer get them and we don't do much. Its too bad, but I like the way your unit rolls.

[Billyd]

Please go back and correct your grade designators. They all need to prefaced with either Cadet or C/.

[C.A.P. Flight Officer]

I know I have not posted in a while. My SASI is in desperate need of promotion tests. My unit has not had a promotion test this year! The problem is that our old promotion tests are too, too easy. If anyone can help PM me or send me an email please. I just need some promotion tests so that cadets in my unit can get promoted. Ideas and rough drafts of some good promotion tests are welcome. I will do what it takes to make my unit better.

[Drill for life]

Im my school LET 1's get promoted three to four times a year with the option of making C/Sgt by the end of the Year and the rest of your JROTC career is based on how well we like you. I know its wrong but that the way we do it. I will NEVER AND I REPEAT NEVER BE BNCO because everybody the past three years hates the way I do things. I do things the way my SAI and AI tell me to. Rank is based purely on your Position. If you are a Company Commander you get C/1Lt and the end of the year you will get C/Cpt if you do everything and exhibit Leadership and stuff like that. I want to do promotion boards next year so people who deserve to be promoted will be promoted.

[TruBlu]

because everybody the past three years hates the way I do things. I do things the way my SAI and AI tell me to.

Well there is your point of failure. Why is it that you do things the way that your SAI and AI tell you to, but no one else does? Do the instructors not have the authority to enforce what they believe is to be correct (generally what is actually correct)? If you are doing what they tell you, and the others aren't, then aren't they contradicting what the instructors are saying to do? It's a lot of rhetorical questions, just to get you thinking, but obviously cadets don't have the respect for the instructors in your unit if that is your situation. That needs to change, and fast. Either your cadets need to realize that they need to get their asses in gear, or your instructors need to realize that they need to push the lead out of the cadet's asses.

That's my two cents on that.

Oh, I am developing those logs that I was talking about, and when I have them completed I will post them up for you guys to see.

[Drill for life]

They have Guidelins that we have to stay inside of and I stay in the middle and everybody else just does there own thing. If that makes sense.