Corpsman and unearned medals.

[Drill for life]

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/01/navy_tazewell_verdict_080123w/
I find this truly downright disgraceful to everyone in uniform. He got the right punishment for his crime.

[SlightlyCatholic]

A hospital corpsman accused of wearing unearned combat awards was sentenced to two years’ confinement, reduction to E-3 and a bad-conduct discharge Thursday.

It sounds like from his punishment that this guy was given a General Court-Martial, since Special Courts-Martial are only allowed to award up to one year of confinement and a Summary Court-Martial wouldn't be severe enough for his offense. With that said, General Courts-Martial are exclusively allowed to award Dishonorable Discharges to guilty parties and I'm wondering why this guy didn't receive one. Then again, his life is basically ruined anyway so I guess two years in prison with a bust and a BCD is more than enough. After all, he didn't murder anyone.

Just for reference:

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) provides for three different types of courts-martial: summary, special, and general. These forms of courts-martial differ in their make-up and the punishments which may be imposed.

The Military Rules of Evidence apply to all classifications of courts-martial. Moreover, an accused must be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Summary Court-Martial
A summary court-martial consists of one commissioned officer, and may try only enlisted personnel for noncapital offenses. The punishment which may be imposed depends on the grade of the accused.

In the case of enlisted members above the fourth pay grade, a summary court-martial may impose any punishment not forbidden by the law except death, dismissal , dishonorable or bad conduct discharge, confinement for more than 1 month, hard labor without confinement for more than 45 days, restriction to specified limits for more than 2 months, or forfeiture of more than two-thirds of 1 month’s pay.

In the case of all other enlisted members, the court-martial may also impose confinement for not more than one month and may reduce the accused to the lowest pay grade, E-1.

The accused has the absolute right to refuse trial by summary court-martial. The accused does not have the right to representation by an attorney. The accused does have the right to cross-examine witnesses, to call witnesses and produce evidence, and to testify or remain silent.

Special Court-Martial
A special court-martial consists of not less than three members and a military judge, or an accused may be tried by military judge alone upon request of the accused.

A special court-martial is often characterized as a misdemeanor court, and may try all persons subject to the UCMJ, including officers and midshipmen.

A special court-martial may impose any punishment authorized under R.C.M.1003 except death, dishonorable discharge, dismissal, confinement for more than 1 year, hard labor without confinement for more than 3 months, forfeiture of pay exceeding two-thirds pay per month, or any forfeiture of pay for more than 1 year. .

General Court-Martial
A general court-martial consists of not less than five members and a military judge, or an accused may be tried by military judge alone upon request of the accused.

A general court-martial is often characterized as a felony court, and may try all persons subject to the UCMJ, including officers and midshipmen.

A general court-martial may adjudge any punishment not prohibited by the UCMJ, including death when specifically authorized.

Found at: http://www.military.com/benefits/legal-matters/courts-martial

[Drill for life]

It sounds like from his punishment that this guy was given a General Court-Martial, since Special Courts-Martial are only allowed to award up to one year of confinement and a Summary Court-Martial wouldn't be severe enough for his offense. With that said, General Courts-Martial are exclusively allowed to award Dishonorable Discharges to guilty parties and I'm wondering why this guy didn't receive one. Then again, his life is basically ruined anyway so I guess two years in prison with a bust and a BCD is more than enough. After all, he didn't murder anyone.

Just for reference:



Found at: http://www.military.com/benefits/legal-matters/courts-martial

Speaking of Demotions there was a Marine who fought in Korea and Vietnam who rated a navy Cross, three Silver Stars, and two Bronze Stars for Valor who was demoted from Master Sergeant down to Staff Sergeant becasue he disobeyed orders to save three Marines and A Corpsman. He got the MOH for that,demoting hinm was wrong in my opinion. He retired and was never promoted again.

[PaulR]

I am glad that the corpsman was caught for what he did. I wonder how many phonies are still wearing fake ribbons and medals today?

[pingjocky]

Too many....but then again, one is too many.

R/
Pingjocky

[SlightlyCatholic]

The real shame is that this guy is no dummy. Yes, he violated the trust of many and is now considered to be a fraud, but to do what he did took talent and a good bit of intelligence. If only they didn't go to the dark side...

[PaulR]

I read about the corpsman's story a few months ago in the Navy Times. Evidently he was about to be discharged(as noted) due to the fact he could not get promoted. He was not a good test taker.

Well, in an effort to stay in the military he faked the awards to get additional points for advancement.

If he was so intelligent, he would have used some of that intellect to learn his rate well enough to score on the Service wide exams to get promoted. While I sympathize with his plight, there is never a reason to do what he did.

[SlightlyCatholic]

I read about the corpsman's story a few months ago in the Navy Times. Evidently he was about to be discharged(as noted) due to the fact he could not get promoted. He was not a good test taker.

Well, in an effort to stay in the military he faked the awards to get additional points for advancement.

If he was so intelligent, he would have used some of that intellect to learn his rate well enough to score on the Service wide exams to get promoted. While I sympathize with his plight, there is never a reason to do what he did.

I didn't know about his academic difficulties. Sometimes that's not even a matter of intelligence so much as a matter of dilligence. I know many people who could do much better in school if they would just sit down and actually crack the spine of a book every once in a while. Are the Navy rate exams really that hard? I know the Navy has military standards and occupational standards that they test on, but I also know that they have a bibliography on what Sailors should be studying for each test. I haven't BTDT, but it seems like if you put in a good amount of studying all the tools are there to succeed.

[Drill for life]

Too many....but then again, one is too many.

R/
Pingjocky

Pingjockey you are dead on. It's good to meet you I'm Drill for life, I saw your post on the old Grunts Forum and agreed with a lot of stuf you said. It's good to officialy meet you. I know a DI who was going to be discharged because he couldn't make E-6, he was in the Corps for 15 years before he made Staff sergeant. He was a great Marine, a Great DI, and a great Force Reconassince. I hate how the military won't promote people who are way more qualified than other people but can't pass a test. By the way he just mad First Sergeant, he's been in for 23 years now, great guy.

[SlightlyCatholic]

The Staff NCO Promotion Process
Unlike the Corporal (CPL) and Sergeant (SGT) promotion process, the Staff NCO (E6-E9) promotion process includes a centralized selection board. The normal sequence from recommendation to promotion to Staff NCO follows.

Basic Eligibility Requirements for Staff Sergeant (E-6)
Command recommendation
48 months Time-In-Service
24 Months Time-In-Grade

Must complete the required Professional Military Education (PME) courses:
Marine Noncommissioned Officer Course (MCI)/ NCO Basic Nonresident Course, or
The Sergeant's Nonresident Program/Sergeants Distance Education Program

The Staff NCO Centralized Board
The Commandant of the Marine Corps (CMC) will convene selection boards each calendar year to examine the qualifications of Marines in the grades of Sgt, SSgt, GySgt, MSgt and 1stSgt for the purpose of recommending those "best and fully qualified" for promotion to the next higher grade. The centralized promotion board generally consists of 16 to 18 members.

Your entire military career is evaluated to determine if you qualify among the "best and fully qualified." This determination is based on the "whole Marine" concept. In the course of its evaluations, the Selection Board will consider your demonstrated performance/achievement, leadership, professional and technical knowledge, experience (type and level), growth potential, motivation, military proficiency, physical fitness, personal appearance, conduct, moral character, and maturity.

Link at: http://www.military.com/MilitaryCareers/Content/0,14556,Promotions_Marine_E6,00.html

I know a DI who was going to be discharged because he couldn't make E-6, he was in the Corps for 15 years before he made Staff sergeant. He was a great Marine, a Great DI, and a great Force Reconassince. I hate how the military won't promote people who are way more qualified than other people but can't pass a test.

It seems to me that the SSgt in question simply wasn't qualified to be promoted. I don't see anything in the above requirements about a test, unless you mean the PT test. However, if he's a Recon Marine, I doubt PT would be an issue.

[Drill for life]

Link at: http://www.military.com/MilitaryCareers/Content/0,14556,Promotions_Marine_E6,00.html



It seems to me that the SSgt in question simply wasn't qualified to be promoted. I don't see anything in the above requirements about a test, unless you mean the PT test. However, if he's a Recon Marine, I doubt PT would be an issue.

I never knew it was as Complicated as that. I heard in World War 2 if your Platoon Sergeant(E-7) got killed they would just pick the most qualified person, even if it was a PFC.

[PaulR]

Pingjockey you are dead on. It's good to meet you I'm Drill for life, I saw your post on the old Grunts Forum and agreed with a lot of stuf you said. It's good to officialy meet you. I know a DI who was going to be discharged because he couldn't make E-6, he was in the Corps for 15 years before he made Staff sergeant. He was a great Marine, a Great DI, and a great Force Reconassince. I hate how the military won't promote people who are way more qualified than other people but can't pass a test. By the way he just mad First Sergeant, he's been in for 23 years now, great guy.

None of what you wrote makes any sense.

1. What do you know about this person, regarding his advancement status?
2. They would not discharge an E6 with 15 years in unless he is being discharged for medical or administrative reasons. An E6 would be allowed to make their 20 years for retirement.
3. I dont see how he would have problems advancing when you said that he was a First Sergeant(E8).
4. If someone has been in for 23 years, they would not simply discharge the member. He/she would be eligible for retirement.

[Drill for life]

Here's what I meant, He passed the deadline to get promoted to E-6 but eventually made it, he is still in the Marines Corps and just made E-8. Pretty good for a guy who was going to be Discharged for not making E-6 on time.

[Billyd]

Cadet,

I wish I had your understanding of military promotion systems, I might have actually gotten promoted. Oh, wait a second, I did.

Last time I checked, the high year of tenure for an E-6 was in the neighborhood of 22 years. However, some career fields can apply for and be granted a waiver. This is usually restricted to two types of career fields: Critical/short manned as well as smaller career fields with few opportunities available for promotion.

I would advise you, that until you actually complete Recruit Training and actually try to get promoted, that you leave discussions of promotions and high year of tenure to those that have BTDT

[MP_Girl]

Okay, I know this is not exactly the same topic, but simular, but what is your views on people who wear the uniform just to wear it, with rank and US ARMY on it ect. ect. I don't like that they can just waltz into the Store and get them..It is disrespectful IMO

What do you think?

[PaulR]

I agree with you with the example you provided as well. I feel that uniforms (I assume you are talking about BDUs) should be stripped of insignia before they are resold to the public. Maybe the uniforms come from the parents of the kids wearing them?

[pingjocky]

Why do they have to be stripped of rank / insignia before being "resold" to the public? Heck, I can buy full sets of BDU's, ACU's, ABU's, and MARPAT complete with any rank I want, and have my name strips made up on-line. Ranger Joe's, US Cavalry, Cheaperthandirt, and too many more to name with sell anything to anyone. Gone are the days of buying crap second-hand in a thrift store when you can be a GI Joe clone with an internet connection and a credit card.

Now, personally, I think these sites are a great help to those folks who are authorized to wear the uniforms. Sometimes it's just too hard to get what you need when you need it from a "normal store," and the internet is the only way to get your gear. I understand that, and I've used these sites as well.

Where the disconnect comes is what YOU do when you see someone wearing something they haven't earned. Call them out on it, and if need be, kick their ass and take it off their scummy body.

Costumes are different. I have no problem with entertainers trying to look "bad-ass" by wearing "militaria." My wife is addicted to Project Runway, and the other night one of the little fag-boys was wearing a Marine soft cap with EGA on it...whatever. If that's what you need to help you sleep at night, so be it.

R/
Pingjocky

[SlightlyCatholic]

This issue comes up frequently when one participates in a cadet program. I had to deal with the issue of appearing like a military member when wearing my Sea Cadet uniform during training. Unit COs wouldn't let us off base for liberty either a) in regular clothing or b) in Service Dress Uniform. The times that we went out in the latter uniform, I received a "thank you for your service" or "What do you do in the Navy, Petty Officer?". I was on a decommissioned battleship for training and was waiting for someone when a man came up to me and said, " Thanks for your service, Chief."

It leaves cadets in a tough spot, because your two options are to either explain yourself or just say thank you. If you explain yourself, (at least in our case) people usually didn't get that we weren't part of the actual military until about forty-five minutes into the conversation. If you say thank you, you feel like you're impersonating the military members who are ACTUALLY IN the military. There were plenty of times where I simply said "thank you" and went along because I didn't have a half hour to forty-five minutes to explain myself and my uniform.

Don't get me wrong, Sea Cadet uniforms (like all cadet uniforms) are marked up enough so anybody with a slight knowledge of US Navy Uniform Regs would know right away we weren't actual military. However, 95% of the population doesn't have that knowledge and all it took for them was to see the Chief's rocker or the Petty Officer crow to automatically think Navy.

[armysc_25b]

This issue comes up frequently when one participates in a cadet program. I had to deal with the issue of appearing like a military member when wearing my Sea Cadet uniform during training. Unit COs wouldn't let us off base for liberty either a) in regular clothing or b) in Service Dress Uniform. The times that we went out in the latter uniform, I received a "thank you for your service" or "What do you do in the Navy, Petty Officer?". I was on a decommissioned battleship for training and was waiting for someone when a man came up to me and said, " Thanks for your service, Chief."

It leaves cadets in a tough spot, because your two options are to either explain yourself or just say thank you. If you explain yourself, (at least in our case) people usually didn't get that we weren't part of the actual military until about forty-five minutes into the conversation. If you say thank you, you feel like you're impersonating the military members who are ACTUALLY IN the military. There were plenty of times where I simply said "thank you" and went along because I didn't have a half hour to forty-five minutes to explain myself and my uniform.

Don't get me wrong, Sea Cadet uniforms (like all cadet uniforms) are marked up enough so anybody with a slight knowledge of US Navy Uniform Regs would know right away we weren't actual military. However, 95% of the population doesn't have that knowledge and all it took for them was to see the Chief's rocker or the Petty Officer crow to automatically think Navy.
Been there, done that...

During my high school days, I'd constantly take public transportation to get where I needed to go. Uniform days in my AJROTC program were no different. Whether it be me walking downtown to my mom's office, or just leaving the Veteran's Day Parade, I'd be approached constantly with those same thank you's during my c/Enlisted time, even when I was in Class A's and had a patch and insignia that explicitly stated JROTC on them. It stopped a bit once I became a c/Officer, since the insignia there are so radically different. It's a difficult spot, and I've handled it both ways (explain JROTC and just acknowledge) depending on the situation.