Atheist Soldier Alleges Discrimination

[SlightlyCatholic]

September 27, 2008
Associated Press

TOPEKA, Kansas - An atheist soldier says in a federal lawsuit that his superiors required him to be present for Christian prayers, and that the military allows fundamentalist Christians to proselytize.

Spc. Dustin Chalker, a combat medic with an engineering battalion, alleges he was required to attend three events from December 2007 to May 2008 at Fort Riley in which Christian prayers were delivered. Chalker has served in Iraq and Korea.

Chalker and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation filed the lawsuit against Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Thursday in Kansas City, Kansas. It alleges violations of the soldier's religious freedoms.

The lawsuit alleges the military allows religious discrimination by fundamentalist Christians who try to force their views on others, especially subordinates. Its examples include programs for soldiers, presentations by "anti-Muslim activists" and a "spiritual handbook" for soldiers endorsed by Gen. David Petraeus, the commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East.

Defense Department spokeswoman Eileen Lainez said Friday the department has received fewer than 50 complaints alleging religious discrimination in the past three years. The armed forces have more than 2.2 million active-duty and Reserve personnel.

"The department respects (and supports by its policy) the rights of others to their own religious beliefs, including the right to hold no beliefs," Lainez said in a statement. "There are systems in place to provide a means to address and resolve any perceived unfair treatment."

Lainez said the department does not comment on pending lawsuits.

In March, the foundation and another atheist soldier at Fort Riley, Pfc. Jeremy Hall, filed a lawsuit raising similar issues. Hall alleges he was harassed by fellow soldiers in Iraq and after he returned late last year to military police duty, and that his promotion to sergeant was blocked.

Link at: http://www.military.com/news/article/atheist-soldier-alleges-discrimination.html?wh=wh

[Billyd]

Did you notice that the type of events wasn't listed? I recall from my AD days, that oftentimes at Commander Call (a mandatory formation BTW) a Chaplain offered an invocation. There is something missing from this story.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Not to be insensitive, but if a military member isn't religious, can't they just let others pray? Nobody's forcing this guy to pray, so why take that opportunity away from those who want it? Attendance does not have to equal participation. Evening prayer is said by the Chaplains on ships for thousands of sailors each night and nobody has banned that.

[ang1sgt]

This is just another example of how Atheists would rather people conform to their beliefs, which is a REAL contradiction in terms, than to have things forced upon them. He could have stood there and given the others some respect by staying quiet and in place. No need to bow his head or follow along. I just don't believe that one person can bring a suit like this. If it were not for this "Organization" I doubt that it would get anywhere.

[SlightlyCatholic]

This is the Mission Statement of the foundation that gave support for the lawsuit:

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation is dedicated to ensuring that all members of the United States Armed Forces fully receive the Constitutional guarantees of religious freedom to which they and all Americans are entitled by virtue of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

MRFF recognizes that military life requires individual adherence to shared patriotic principles. MRFF also recognizes the need for military personnel to at times temporarily relinquish some Constitutionally granted personal freedoms for the sake of military discipline and objectives.

However, MRFF believes that religious faith is a Constitutionally guaranteed freedom that must never be compromised, except in the most limited of military circumstances, because of its fundamental importance to the preservation of the American nation and the American way of life.

Additionally, MRFF adheres strongly to the principle that religious faith is a deeply personal matter, and that no American has the right to question another American’s beliefs as long as they do not unwontedly intrude on the public space or the privacy or safety of another individual.

Therefore, MRFF holds that:

No religion or religious philosophy may be advanced by the United States Armed Forces over any other religion or religious philosophy.

No member of the United States Armed Forces may be compelled in any way to conform to a particular religion or religious philosophy.

No member of the United States Armed Forces may be compelled in any way to witness or engage in any religious exercise.

No member of the military may be compelled to curtail – except in the most limited of military circumstances and when it directly impacts military discipline, morale and the successful completion of a specific military goal – the free exercise of their religious practices or beliefs.

Students at United States military academies are entitled to the same Constitutional rights pertaining to religious freedoms and the free exercise of those freedoms to which all other members of the United States Armed Forces military are entitled.

No member of the military may be compelled to endure unwanted religious proselytization, evangelization or persuasion of any sort in a military setting and/or by a military superior or civilian employee of the military.

The full exercise of religious freedom includes the right not to subscribe to any particular religion or religious philosophy. The so-called “unchurched” cede no Constitutional rights by want of their separation from organized faith.

It is the responsibility of the military hierarchy to ensure that the free exercise of religious freedoms of all enlisted personnel are respected and served.

All military personnel have the right to employ appropriate judicial means to protect their religious rights.

Found at: http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/about.html

[FeelinFroggy]

I guess there are atheists in foxholes after all. I've run across several atheists in my day, and while I can't speak for this particular one in the topic, I can say that I've listened to more bull crap from people of his kind as to why God isn't real as opposed to group prayers provided. My gripe is that if I can listen to an atheist's point of view, then he should be able to show the same respect.

[SlightlyCatholic]

I guess there are atheists in foxholes after all. I've run across several atheists in my day, and while I can't speak for this particular one in the topic, I can say that I've listened to more bull crap from people of his kind as to why God isn't real as opposed to group prayers provided. My gripe is that if I can listen to an atheist's point of view, then he should be able to show the same respect.

I see atheism as an attitude, not a religion...or a philosophy if you want to get intellectual. Its very etymology renders its use as a theological movement null and void. If you deny the existence of a god, then how can you have a belief in something you don't believe in? Also, why push it? If I regard something as nonexistent, why is it even a threat? I don't mean to discriminate against anyone, I just don't understand why this group is even promoting atheism as a valid religious movement.

[Guardsman-CA]

I worked with a guy who claimed to be atheist but the funny thing was that when he cut his hand the first thing out of his mouth was " God that hurts!! " Why would anyone tell God their hand hurts if they don't believe in him in the first place ?

[Kiwi]

I worked with a guy who claimed to be atheist but the funny thing was that when he cut his hand the first thing out of his mouth was " God that hurts!! " Why would anyone tell God their hand hurts if they don't believe in him in the first place ?

I never seen a atheist die yet if he could help it. Its amazing they do turn to god in the end. I think its called hedging your bets ;)

[SlightlyCatholic]

I never seen a atheist die yet if he could help it. Its amazing they do turn to god in the end. I think its called hedging your bets ;)

Then again, you have people who give the following argument:

1. I'm going to die.
2. I have no idea what's going to happen when I die.
3. If there's no God and I don't believe, I have nothing to worry about.
4. If there IS a God and I don't believe, I'm up the creek without a paddle.
5. I believe.

I guess you could call it faith, but I consider it more of an attempt to save one's own hide. Just my opinion...

[Spider]

Then again, you have people who give the following argument:

1. I'm going to die.
2. I have no idea what's going to happen when I die.
3. If there's no God and I don't believe, I have nothing to worry about.
4. If there IS a God and I don't believe, I'm up the creek without a paddle.
5. I believe.

I guess you could call it faith, but I consider it more of an attempt to save one's own hide. Just my opinion...

So you can't make a down payment out to the Vatican and sweat it out in Purgatory anymore then?

I worked with a guy who claimed to be atheist but the funny thing was that when he cut his hand the first thing out of his mouth was " God that hurts!! " Why would anyone tell God their hand hurts if they don't believe in him in the first place ?

It's an expression... Anyway religous people don't say the Lord's name in vain, that would be blasphemy.

[SlightlyCatholic]

So you can't make a down payment out to the Vatican and sweat it out in Purgatory anymore then?

No, we no longer have the "Get Out of Hell Free Cards" anymore. The main problem was that people were going around as "professional pardoners", asking for money to quicken someone's (or your own) journey into heaven. Indulgences themselves are a complex piece of Catholic theology, so I won't go into that. However, Spider is correct. At one time, it was thought possible to buy your way into heaven.

[Woody]

Don't see what he is whining about to be honest .Odd church parade is no hardship .So his commander in his opinion is a sky pixie worshiping nutter he has two choices allow said commander to see him convert earning brownie points (faking belief has got to be easier than being good at his job :devil:)
or B if not really intrested in career choose a rival religion to convert to
US forces recognise wicca for instance and watch his commander explode.
Either has got to be more fun and fufiling than talking to lawyers .

[SlightlyCatholic]

Don't see what he is whining about to be honest .Odd church parade is no hardship .So his commander in his opinion is a sky pixie worshiping nutter he has two choices allow said commander to see him convert earning brownie points (faking belief has got to be easier than being good at his job :devil:)
or B if not really intrested in career choose a rival religion to convert to
US forces recognise wicca for instance and watch his commander explode.
Either has got to be more fun and fufiling than talking to lawyers .

Is this English? Who is whining about who? Very confused...:dontgetit: