Enlisted vs. Officers

[HWFG1]

Just out of curiosity, I've noticed that more people in my unit who want to go into the military go to basic training and become an enlisted person in their branch of choice. In fact, I can name twice the amount of people who go (or plan on going) through basic than people who want to become an officer. I know one of our Corps Commanders last year got accepted into the Air Force Academy, as has one of seniors this year, and I know our current Vice Corps Commander is planning on going to Georgia Military College to become an officer in the Army. I personally am planning on Air Force ROTC (provided I get the medical "okay") to become an officer. Otherwise, every cadet I've heard from with plans to go into the military or who has already joined has enlisted.

Is it like this for you guys too?

[TruBlu]

Choosing the enlisted or officer route involves a lot of factors. For me, I've taken my oath of enlistment and will be shipping out for basic come 10 August 2010; I'll be ATC for USAF. While I am initially enlisting, my goal is to become an USAF officer. After my four years of active duty as an ATC, I'll be on reserve status for the next four, simultaneously enrolled in college to get a four year degree. After that, I'll re-enlist and commission as a Second Lieutenant with eight years experience under my belt and, at least the idea is, will be better prepared to be an officer (hopefully C2). So that's me, enlisted first, officer later.

As to the initial question of why more enlisted over officer, just look at ratios for that: officer to enlisted for the military (more specifically USAF) are roughly 1:4. Those who initially enlist usually don't have enough cash for college or don't want to go through another two/four/six/etc. years of school before 'the real world.' I'm a little bit of both of those. Most who plan on military service out of high school with either enlist while in or as soon as they are out, or they will be going through ROTC or an academy for college. Some people aren't meant to be enlisted, some aren't meant to be officers. Some want to see both. It's all about where you want to go basically.

[C/CLN]

A LOT of people will see a recruiter to talk about commissioning and they end up coming out of the doors having enlisted instead. Recruiters do that...

Some people also think it's a waste of their time to go to college too. I know people who want to be officers and realize the pay and job differences and whatnot but they just don't want to go to college because they're lazy.

[pingjocky]

...but they just don't want to go to college because they're lazy.

Easy, killer. Some people who don't go to college, and decide to enlist instead do it not because of a "laziness" factor. College, like submarines, is not for everyone. Look any Submariner in the eyes and tell him he's "lazy" ...if you have the cojones.

I just love how guys who are still in high school are filled with life wisdom, and the rest of us are just "lazy."

Pingjocky

[HWFG1]

enlisted first, officer later.
I'd forgotten about that. Heh. Whoops. But I don't think anyone who has enlisted that I know has had plans to transfer to a commission later on. I guess I just found it odd that a lot of people in my unit want to be officers in AFJROTC, but, want to enlist in the military.

[ang1sgt]

A LOT of people will see a recruiter to talk about commissioning and they end up coming out of the doors having enlisted instead. Recruiters do that...

Some people also think it's a waste of their time to go to college too. I know people who want to be officers and realize the pay and job differences and whatnot but they just don't want to go to college because they're lazy.

Wow Cadet. So I am lazy because I was enlisted. I am lazy because I stayed in for 6 years, got married and had a set of twins while in England with my Wife.

I am lazy because after those 6 years I came home from England and found a job after 5 days on Terminal leave from the USAF. I stayed in that Job for 28 years and rose through the Ranks to become an Engineer in Digital Imaging. I bought a house, had many fine things, raised THREE children 2 of which bettered their ol Man, You know, the LAZY one, by achieving AAS degrees. My Son has a BS in Civil Engineering. All this with the help of their Lazy old man.

This Lazy person wound up back in the Military through the Air Guard and rose through the ranks to become a First Sergeant and one of only two for that outfit that was Qualified to deploy in that position.

Yep, Many SNCO in the Military are sure Lazy. I guess I am an example of that.

[cyclonecadet]

I'm glad that you have picked ROTC as your commisioning source. I am currently a C/3C in AFROTC and I am having a lot of fun on top of all of the work that is required. I am just curious, where are you planning on going to college? I would highly suggest that you not only find a college that you like, but find a Det. that fits your preferences. Not all Dets are created equal.

[HWFG1]

I've not gotten too far into that, yet. My three choices in the state are Valdosta State, Georgia State, and Georgia Tech. I don't know that the Air Force has any policies on this, but if I can go out of state, the University of Tennessee is one other college I would consider. I've got a little less than a year to decide, but I've already started doing research on them.

[TruBlu]

I'd forgotten about that. Heh. Whoops. But I don't think anyone who has enlisted that I know has had plans to transfer to a commission later on.

It's not that common for members to enlist and then commission later on. I'd say it's probably as uncommon as serving in multiple branches.

[DSEddie]

A LOT of people will see a recruiter to talk about commissioning and they end up coming out of the doors having enlisted instead. Recruiters do that...

Some people also think it's a waste of their time to go to college too. I know people who want to be officers and realize the pay and job differences and whatnot but they just don't want to go to college because they're lazy.

Ironically, enlisted are the hardest workers in any branch. I have never heard of anyone calling enlisted lazy before this post. I have been to college and can tell you that being enlisted is much more difficult than anything I did in college. Make sure you think before you post. As in the military, there are many more enlisted members here than there are officers. Also, someone who hasn't served a day in either shoes should not be judging those who have.

[HWFG1]

It's not that common for members to enlist and then commission later on. I'd say it's probably as uncommon as serving in multiple branches.
Yeah, you're only the second person I've met (for lack of a better term) that has done that. (The first being the SASI in my unit of JROTC) If I remember correctly, those who go enlisted for four years, then commission also get a better pay for that experience.

[TruBlu]

Yeah, you're only the second person I've met (for lack of a better term) that has done that. (The first being the SASI in my unit of JROTC) If I remember correctly, those who go enlisted for four years, then commission also get a better pay for that experience.

You don't get paid for serving as an enlisted man first per-say, but for serving. When you commission from an enlisted status with over 2 years of cumulative service, you are paid the same as a an O-1 that has served over 2 years of cumulative service. For the time being, the starting pay for a 'fresh' O-1 is $2,655.30 monthly. After more 2 years of cumulative service, $2,763.60 monthly. And after more than 3 years of cumulative service, $3,340.50 (max pay for an O-1 no matter how many years). When I commission, I will have 4 years of active duty and 4 years of reserve duty for 8 years total cumulative service. If pay were to stay the same for the next 9 or so years (which it won't), I will be paid $3,340.50 monthly for my prior service, yet I will have just commissioned as a Second Lieutenant. That's basically how the pay deal works for enlisted going to officer status.

[HWFG1]

Well that clears that up. Realistically, it's getting paid for the time you've served regardless of how long you've been that rank. Thanks for explaining!

[C/CLN]

Easy, killer. Some people who don't go to college, and decide to enlist instead do it not because of a "laziness" factor. College, like submarines, is not for everyone. Look any Submariner in the eyes and tell him he's "lazy" ...if you have the cojones.

I just love how guys who are still in high school are filled with life wisdom, and the rest of us are just "lazy."

Pingjocky
But realize I said "who want to be officers...". That implies that their end result of enlisting rather than commissioning is due to a lack of post-secondary educational motivation.

[C/CLN]

Wow Cadet. So I am lazy because I was enlisted. I am lazy because I stayed in for 6 years, got married and had a set of twins while in England with my Wife.

I am lazy because after those 6 years I came home from England and found a job after 5 days on Terminal leave from the USAF. I stayed in that Job for 28 years and rose through the Ranks to become an Engineer in Digital Imaging. I bought a house, had many fine things, raised THREE children 2 of which bettered their ol Man, You know, the LAZY one, by achieving AAS degrees. My Son has a BS in Civil Engineering. All this with the help of their Lazy old man.

This Lazy person wound up back in the Military through the Air Guard and rose through the ranks to become a First Sergeant and one of only two for that outfit that was Qualified to deploy in that position.

Yep, Many SNCO in the Military are sure Lazy. I guess I am an example of that.
That is NOT what I am saying, by any means. I am trying to say that I do have friends who WANT to commission, but then decide they're too lazy to pursue a college education and enlist instead. I am trying to say that it is a bit dumb of them to want to commission then just scrap that because they don't want to go to college.

It's like saying "I want to enlist, but I don't want to go through basic, so I'll just do something else instead."

My first post was not to insult enlisted persons, but to establish that it is a bit moronic of some unnamed persons I know who want to commission in to the military but then decide they do not want to go through the necessary routes to do it because of laziness--which does not suggest that enlisted people are lazy, but that these people in particular are. This statement leads back to the OP's statement that most people in his unit enlist rather than commission. I am just saying that, aside from the reasons that those people choose the enlisted corps rather than commissioning, there are a LOT of people in my unit who choose to enlist rather than commission--when they wanted to commission in the first place--simply because of a laziness factor. In no way shape or form was I trying to insinuate that enlisted people are lazy. My opinion is quite the opposite.

I do realize now how my original post could be taken in a very negative way, now that i re-read it, but I did not mean it like that at all.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Billyd]

Cadets,

Remember that words have meaning and sometimes those meanings are not clear to the reader. As another "lazy" enlisted person who accomplished much in his career, I also take exception to the choice of words. May I strongly suggest the you not be in such a hurry to push the Submit button? Take the time to preview your posts to make sure it says what you intend it to say? It will save you time in having to explain yourself later.

[armysc_25b]

Maybe I'm being the one who's siding with the guy everyone thinks is wrong for once (ya, I know, I'm breaking character), but when I read it I didn't think he was saying that enlisted people are lazy because they didn't go to college first. My thought was that people weren't going to college and "being lazy" because they didn't want to do anymore schooling, which makes sense. I wanted to go to college straight out of high school, but as I've admitted elsewhere around here, because of my laziness when it mattered most that wasn't a real possibility. Almost 4 years later, I finally got my 6 in gear and am doing online college courses.

Everyone has their own path to success, just like everyone has their way of interpreting the comments of others. This can be taken as an effective lesson on the importance of properly communicating your thoughts the first time.

You don't get paid for serving as an enlisted man first per-say, but for serving.

Actually, this is somewhat correct and somewhat inaccurate. Pay for an O-1 maxes at 4 years time in service (TIS). That is, unless you are an O-1E. An O-1E thru O-3E are those who are previously enlisted and then become commissioned, with this caveat (straight from the pay chart): "Applicable to O-1 to O-3 with at least 4 years and 1 day of active duty or more than 1460 points as a warrant and/or enlisted member." An O-1E with over 6 years actually would make more than an O-1 without the enlisted experience could make if they remained in that grade for that long. So, yes, someone with prior enlisted experience could make more than someone who directly commissioned.

[TruBlu]

Actually, this is somewhat correct and somewhat inaccurate. Pay for an O-1 maxes at 4 years time in service (TIS). That is, unless you are an O-1E. An O-1E thru O-3E are those who are previously enlisted and then become commissioned, with this caveat (straight from the pay chart): "Applicable to O-1 to O-3 with at least 4 years and 1 day of active duty or more than 1460 points as a warrant and/or enlisted member." An O-1E with over 6 years actually would make more than an O-1 without the enlisted experience could make if they remained in that grade for that long. So, yes, someone with prior enlisted experience could make more than someone who directly commissioned.

Just did some research. I've never seen or heard of O-1E through O-3E pay grades until today. Thanks 25B.

[skf_atc]

I enlisted because I don't have the money for college. As far as being an officer, I've considered it but I don't feel that being an officer is right for me right now. I'm quite content being enlisted right now. I actually just took my E-4 advancement exam the other day.
There's plenty of officers on my ship who are prior enlisted.

[C./Fields]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but another option if you wanted to gain the experience of being an enlisted person while still going to college ROTC to get commission is to join the Reserves while in college. Me personally...I plan on doing this at North GA if I don't get accepted to West Point and it sounds like a good idea...just my 10 cents...However, there is the fact that you can't get an ROTC scholarship if you do this, but personally as far as my situation goes with being in state and with all the tuition assistance and Reserve pay, etc., you get more money left over after paying college bills than through an ROTC scholarship. Also, you gain valuable military and extra leadership experience, find out what enlisted people go through, and have a higher starting salary when you commission as a 2nd Lt.

[Drill for life]

Well I guess I'm just lazy. I know I would not do a good job at college and I wouldn't like it. I am going to spend my whole career enlisted. I hate school and I loathe the idea of spending and additional four years at some stupid college spending my mother’s retirement just so I can pin on some gold bars. I think no Second Lieutenant (who hasn't got any combat experience), is ready to lead a platoon of Marine's into combat against a hostile enemy. Thank god for SNCO's they teach ever officer you've ever met how to be a good officer.

[wukong]

Well I guess I'm just lazy. I know I would not do a good job at college and I wouldn't like it. I am going to spend my whole career enlisted. I hate school and I loathe the idea of spending and additional four years at some stupid college spending my mother’s retirement just so I can pin on some gold bars. I think no Second Lieutenant (who hasn't got any combat experience), is ready to lead a platoon of Marine's into combat against a hostile enemy. Thank god for SNCO's they teach ever officer you've ever met how to be a good officer.

I'm not going to slam you too hard, but you've just entered a profession of continual schooling. The kicker is that what you are expected to learn is to keep you and the troops around you alive. I would suggest that you pay even more attention to schooling from here on.

As far a Second Lieutenants and combat leadership, every person in the the military family has to start somewhere. Our system did not start in a vacuum and it exists as it does today because it works better than all other methods tried so far. Combat leaders of companies, battalions, squadrons, divisions most likely started out as combat leaders of platoons, sections, flights. War is a risky business. Would you prefer a platoon at risk with an untested combat leader or a division? Just where would you hand the keys to an "unqualified" officer?

Lastly I agree whole heartedly with your last statement. I learned a great deal everyday in my journey as an 0-1 thru 0-5 from outstanding professional enlisted troops of all services that I worked for and with as an airlift specialist and officer. I also learned a great deal from the few that I had to discipline. This door swings both ways and hits you just as hard in the ass in both directions.

[C/CLN]

Omghh I am simply saying that A: I know people who wish to commission in to the military. B: They have everything going for them: scholarship, schools chasing them, everything. And C: Finally, they decide not to go to college because they are lazy, and as an arbitrary decision, they enlisted instead B/C they still want to go in to the military. I have heard people tell me this reasoning nearly word for word.
As I have said twice now I think, I do not believe enlisted people are lazy. That would be illogical reasoning. I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of the people in this particular situation that I have described, and relating it back to the OP's post.

[C./Fields]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but another option if you wanted to gain the experience of being an enlisted person while still going to college ROTC to get commission is to join the Reserves while in college. Me personally...I plan on doing this at North GA if I don't get accepted to West Point and it sounds like a good idea...just my 10 cents...However, there is the fact that you can't get an ROTC scholarship if you do this, but personally as far as my situation goes with being in state and with all the tuition assistance and Reserve pay, etc., you get more money left over after paying college bills than through an ROTC scholarship. Also, you gain valuable military and extra leadership experience, find out what enlisted people go through, and have a higher starting salary when you commission as a 2nd Lt.

................

[PhoenixCadet]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but another option if you wanted to gain the experience of being an enlisted person while still going to college ROTC to get commission is to join the Reserves while in college. Me personally...I plan on doing this at North GA if I don't get accepted to West Point and it sounds like a good idea...just my 10 cents...However, there is the fact that you can't get an ROTC scholarship if you do this, but personally as far as my situation goes with being in state and with all the tuition assistance and Reserve pay, etc., you get more money left over after paying college bills than through an ROTC scholarship. Also, you gain valuable military and extra leadership experience, find out what enlisted people go through, and have a higher starting salary when you commission as a 2nd Lt.

................


Now that I've deciphered your post... I'm still not sure why you're quoting yourself in this manner, but if it's for an answer in regard to "correcting you if you're wrong"; no, you're not wrong. Being enlisted while going through ROTC obviously gives you a bit of experience in the ways of the military.

[cyclonecadet]

We have some guys in my ROTC unit that are prior enlisted. They are the best guys to talk to. They know what it is like in the "real Air Force" and they are quite motivated.

[Sandbagger]

We have some guys in my ROTC unit that are prior enlisted. They are the best guys to talk to. They know what it is like in the "real Air Force" and they are quite motivated.

having been in the air force for 6 years on enlisted side- I denounce the notion of there being a "real air force"

the air force is real wherever you are as long as you're getting paid. PERIOD.

Now that I'm in ROTC (albeit army side), I see a LOT of guys who enlist in the middle of the program in guard or reserve units to help with tuition costs and to get the physical, tactical, military training that is best taught by angry men with campaign hats.

Is this "lazy?" I wouldn't say so. But something tells me the cadet who said it was probably confused "lazy" with "lacking in patience". A military enlistee gets paid active duty pay as soon as his metaphorical boots hit the ground in training. A cadet gets a lousy stipend once a month once they contract and has to undergo a much longer training process.

That said - 6 weeks at Lackluster AFB was not a walk in the park for me. I'm first generation military in my family so much of the indoctrination came as a shock and I came in physically unfit which didn't help at all. For these reasons, USAF basic training is probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

/end rant.

[Spider]

We have some guys in my ROTC unit that are prior enlisted. They are the best guys to talk to. They know what it is like in the "real Air Force" and they are quite motivated.

The RAF? I gather it's mostly white socks and fruit machines in the mess... :devil:

Harrumph... commissioned drivers... garage mechanics... harrumph.... rustle of Telegraph (with separate business and sports sections).

[Sandbagger]

The RAF? I gather it's mostly white socks and fruit machines in the mess... :devil:

Harrumph... commissioned drivers... garage mechanics... harrumph.... rustle of Telegraph (with separate business and sports sections).

no time for red balls and OREs eh?