AFJROTC and First year cadets policy.

[Startingover]

Through the ranks, Just heard from my old commander that they are going to be suspending the uniform wear policy for freshman cadets, not issuing them uniforms until their sophmore year.

Please tell me what kind of Bull that this is. The budget has been tied up for years, and now this? We couldnt ever do anything because our budget was never approved, and now we dont have to wear the uniform? Thats like telling a buisnessman to show up in jeans and a t-shirt to close a multimillion dollar deal.

[StormCrow]

Well,

The budget being approved for a certain unit depends greatly on what the unit accomplishes in previous years.

I have said before that it is best to pick one objective (community service, drill team, relief assistance, Awareness Presentation, etc) to work at. Not only is this good for getting your cadets involved in something, but it also shows headquarters in Alabama, that your unit is doing more to get involved in something than just teaching Aerospace Science.

One thing that you can do to is do a fund raiser, depending on your unit size $2,300 dollars is a good number to shoot for and it is fathomable. With that money go on one of the bargain military surplus websites and order some BDU's, one per person (meaning you have to get the sizes for all of your cadets). This way even though it is not a service blue uniform, it is a UNIFORM.

Storm

[TruBlu]

Through the ranks, Just heard from my old commander that they are going to be suspending the uniform wear policy for freshman cadets, not issuing them uniforms until their sophmore year.

Please tell me what kind of Bull that this is. The budget has been tied up for years, and now this? We couldnt ever do anything because our budget was never approved, and now we dont have to wear the uniform? Thats like telling a buisnessman to show up in jeans and a t-shirt to close a multimillion dollar deal.

I've heard a little different at my unit. I've heard (and its just hear say because I don't have any tangible proof) that first year cadets are not required to, not that HQ is barring them from it. I don't like the idea, but they have to have reasons for it if they are doing it right?

And for my unit, its a double edged sword. It can help us and hurt us, it just depends on what side you are on. At my school we have this "Freshman Focus," which requires freshman to take 4 academics (standard) and 4 electives (also standard). But, 3 of those 4 electives are occupied by types of classes they are forcing on you your freshman year: a foreign language, a health, and an actual class called Freshman Focus (basically just teaches you good habits and acts as a study hall). With first years (most are freshman at any unit) not having to wear the uniform, we (my unit) may be able to offer AFJROTC over Freshman Focus because we teach a lot of the same stuff (no one wants to be in Freshman Focus so that would boost our numbers quite a bit). The downside is that they aren't getting everything out of the class that they should be, like the uniform and all that.

[flyBoy2010]

Recently there have been some problems with monetary assets.
Each corps gets a certain ammount per cadet every year. At the end of the year, whatever is unused is to be retured to the Air Force. Many corps, however, have kept the excess funds instead of returning them. In the last year, the Air Force has frozen the excess funds and many corps have lost their entire account. One nearby corps had upwards of 3,000 dollars frozen. We had over 1,500 dollars frozen. Because of this, many corps have had to scale back on spending.

[StormCrow]

Well that's the fault of your Unit's Instructors. They know the regulations, but they choose to disregard them. I mean its only in plain English.

Storm

[flyBoy2010]

Well that's the fault of your Unit's Instructors. They know the regulations, but they choose to disregard them. I mean its only in plain English.

Storm

This isn't just a local thing. Units all over the country have had their assests frozen.

[StormCrow]

Still that would make sense...instead of giving way for it to happen more and more...get it right the first time. Where do you think that money comes from? The US Tax Payers.

Storm

[TruBlu]

Still that would make sense...instead of giving way for it to happen more and more...get it right the first time. Where do you think that money comes from? The US Tax Payers.

Storm

I agree, that's one thing my instructors have always been sticklers about. If we have money we spend it, if its not spent its returned. They knew if they kept it, it would just eventually stop coming.

[StormCrow]

So there you go,

Your objective for this year should be fund raising. You need uniforms, badges, money for trips...you gotta find a way.

Remember, the one guy that says 'you can't do it' is a FOOL!...for lack of better terms.

Storm

[El Supremo]

Through the ranks, Just heard from my old commander that they are going to be suspending the uniform wear policy for freshman cadets, not issuing them uniforms until their sophmore year.

Please tell me what kind of Bull that this is. The budget has been tied up for years, and now this? We couldnt ever do anything because our budget was never approved, and now we dont have to wear the uniform? Thats like telling a buisnessman to show up in jeans and a t-shirt to close a multimillion dollar deal.

i agree with your statement.

[C/Major Black]

Through the ranks, Just heard from my old commander that they are going to be suspending the uniform wear policy for freshman cadets, not issuing them uniforms until their sophmore year.

Please tell me what kind of Bull that this is. The budget has been tied up for years, and now this? We couldnt ever do anything because our budget was never approved, and now we dont have to wear the uniform? Thats like telling a buisnessman to show up in jeans and a t-shirt to close a multimillion dollar deal.

I know its bull, but unfortunately it's regulation, now.

Also Cadets can now wear the winbreaker with civillian clothing, as long as it doesn't have any insignias ot the Air Force logo on the front.

[TruBlu]

I know its bull, but unfortunately it's regulation, now.

Also Cadets can now wear the winbreaker with civillian clothing, as long as it doesn't have any insignias ot the Air Force logo on the front.

Insignias or their logo? 'Cause all the windbreakers say Air Force and above that is the logo. Or at least they all are in my unit.

[AirForceAlways]

Please, please, please let's see some of the regs. C/Captain Black, either I see some current regs, or I'm just going to discard what you say as myth or a lie. Last I checked, no item of the United States Air Force uniform is to be mixed with uniforms of other services, or civilian clothes, and I find it very hard to believe without hard evidence that removing the patches or insignias makes it okay to wear with civilian clothing. Now, it's possible that I could be very ignorant and have missed the new regulation, but that's just me. If you could provide the section of AFI 36-2903 that says that, I'd be the first to admit I screwed up.

[flyBoy2010]

I don't know if it's in the Regs, but my unit has the same policy. There are no patches on the windbreakers, but if we take our ranks off, we can wear them with civilian clothes.

[C/Major Black]

Please, please, please let's see some of the regs. C/Captain Black, either I see some current regs, or I'm just going to discard what you say as myth or a lie. Last I checked, no item of the United States Air Force uniform is to be mixed with uniforms of other services, or civilian clothes, and I find it very hard to believe without hard evidence that removing the patches or insignias makes it okay to wear with civilian clothing. Now, it's possible that I could be very ignorant and have missed the new regulation, but that's just me. If you could provide the section of AFI 36-2903 that says that, I'd be the first to admit I screwed up.


No problem. I scanned a copy from my SASI. All AFJROTC instructors recieved this letter from HQ regarding the change or "clarification" to AFI36-2930.

I tried to scan a copy, but the file size was too big. But Ill get it on here as soon as possible

[StormCrow]

i agree with your statement.

Really, Cadet? You need to do better at posting than this?

Storm

[Billyd]

Ok, listen up. Until I see something OFFICIAL, this needs to come to a screeching halt. We do not deal in my (insert appropriate instructor here) said, or my commander said's here. We deal in facts and facts alone. That means proper references to guiding directives from parent services. Those aforementioned guiding directives are available on-line. Find them, read them, learn them. They have a tendency to save your hide when it comes to inspections.

[TruBlu]

No problem. I scanned a copy from my SASI. All AFJROTC instructors recieved this letter from HQ regarding the change or "clarification" to AFI36-2930.

I tried to scan a copy, but the file size was too big. But Ill get it on here as soon as possible

I also have it and because it is too big to upload (even zipped) I will directly quote it in numerous places. I only have a paper copy, and I am without a scanner, so my word is what you take it, but I can promise you that it is 100% correct. All the bold will be extracted from the memorandum.

FROM: HQ Holm Center/JR
551 East Maxwell Boulevard
Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6106

SUBJECT: SY 2008-2009-01: Decisions Resulting From the AFJROTC Council of Area Representatives (COAR) Conference Regarding Uniform Wear

1. As a result of the discussions and recommendations from the COAR and Strategic Planning Conferences, we are providing some flexibility in the AFJROTC uniform wear policy. This memorandum modifies existing uniform wear policy for AFJROTC instructors and cadets and provides additional policy to be incorporated into the AFJROTC Uniform and Awards Guide. Those issues identified with an * are new items not currently addressed in the AFJROTC Uniform Guide. These changes are mandatory. If used, the changes must be cooperative written agreement between the principal and the SASIs. All AFJROTC instructors are charged with ensuring that a professional image is retained.

I'm skipping to Section 4, where it covers uniforms for first-year cadets, then to Section 5 where it covers optional civilian uniforms.

4. Uniform for First-Year Cadets.*

a. First-year cadets may be exempt from the AF blue uniform wear requirements. Exempt first-year cadets will not be issued the AF blue uniform, until ready to fully comply with AF blue uniform wear requirements. (SASI will determine uniform wear requirements) This will override Paragraph 1.3.2 of the AFJROTC Uniform and Awards Guide.

b. The AF blue uniform is mandatory for all official military functions such as color/honor guards, or any other official events the SASI deems appropriate. First-year cadets exempt from uniform wear requirements cannot participate in those official military functions or events. Exempted first-year cadets can participate in unit parades, retreats, reveilles, etc. However, cadet formations cannot comprise a mix of uniform wearing and non uniform wearing cadets.

5. Optional Civilian Uniform with No Sponsor Logos. *
a. SASI may prescribe cadet and instructor civilian attire when/where appropriate, provided the principal has approved the option in writing. At a minimum, this will consist of a collared polo-style shirt or unit spirit shirt with khaki trousers or presentable (hole-free) blue jeans. Approved civilian uniform attire shall not have sponsor logos on the clothing. The execution of this option will not be at the AF's expense. Students will not be excluded in participating in JROTC events if they cannot afford appropriate civilian attire.

b. Blue jeans will need to meet written school policy and be hole-free. If a school policy does not exist then the SASI will determine if the jeans are presentable.

c. Civilian attire, as set forth in this policy letter, may be worn by cadets during CIA trips that do not require military interaction. During a base visit, for example, all cadets will be in an AF uniform appropriate for the planned activities. The SASI will standardize uniform wear, or appropriate civilian attire, for CIA trips, or other visits and events.

Finally, I would like to add in Section 10, which is a clarification for the cadet lightweight blue jacket.

10. Clarification of wearing the cadet lightweight blue jacket. According to AFI36-2903 Figure 2.11, the lightweight blue jacket:

a. May be worn indoors or outdoors and must be zipped at least halfway.

b. May be worn with civilian clothes when insignia is removed. (Unit patches do not have to be removed)

c. The AF symbol is optional. May be embroidered on the left side at members cost and is not authorized to be worn with civilian clothes.

d. Women may wear the male version of the lightweight blue jacket.

I hope this will suffice, as this is what I can offer. If queries of other sections are brought forth, I will gladly pull the text from the memorandum in the same way I have done with these sections.

[AirForceAlways]

TruBlu, that's perfect, just what we're looking for. Thank you. Well, guess I really was being ignorant then:D.

[TruBlu]

TruBlu, that's perfect, just what we're looking for. Thank you. Well, guess I really was being ignorant then:D.

I wouldn't say that, I didn't believe it myself when my commander told me. It just didn't seem to be something that HQ would do. But sure enough they did.

[C/Major Black]

I also have it and because it is too big to upload (even zipped) I will directly quote it in numerous places. I only have a paper copy, and I am without a scanner, so my word is what you take it, but I can promise you that it is 100% correct. All the bold will be extracted from the memorandum.

FROM: HQ Holm Center/JR
551 East Maxwell Boulevard
Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6106

SUBJECT: SY 2008-2009-01: Decisions Resulting From the AFJROTC Council of Area Representatives (COAR) Conference Regarding Uniform Wear

1. As a result of the discussions and recommendations from the COAR and Strategic Planning Conferences, we are providing some flexibility in the AFJROTC uniform wear policy. This memorandum modifies existing uniform wear policy for AFJROTC instructors and cadets and provides additional policy to be incorporated into the AFJROTC Uniform and Awards Guide. Those issues identified with an * are new items not currently addressed in the AFJROTC Uniform Guide. These changes are mandatory. If used, the changes must be cooperative written agreement between the principal and the SASIs. All AFJROTC instructors are charged with ensuring that a professional image is retained.

I'm skipping to Section 4, where it covers uniforms for first-year cadets, then to Section 5 where it covers optional civilian uniforms.

4. Uniform for First-Year Cadets.*

a. First-year cadets may be exempt from the AF blue uniform wear requirements. Exempt first-year cadets will not be issued the AF blue uniform, until ready to fully comply with AF blue uniform wear requirements. (SASI will determine uniform wear requirements) This will override Paragraph 1.3.2 of the AFJROTC Uniform and Awards Guide.

b. The AF blue uniform is mandatory for all official military functions such as color/honor guards, or any other official events the SASI deems appropriate. First-year cadets exempt from uniform wear requirements cannot participate in those official military functions or events. Exempted first-year cadets can participate in unit parades, retreats, reveilles, etc. However, cadet formations cannot comprise a mix of uniform wearing and non uniform wearing cadets.

5. Optional Civilian Uniform with No Sponsor Logos. *
a. SASI may prescribe cadet and instructor civilian attire when/where appropriate, provided the principal has approved the option in writing. At a minimum, this will consist of a collared polo-style shirt or unit spirit shirt with khaki trousers or presentable (hole-free) blue jeans. Approved civilian uniform attire shall not have sponsor logos on the clothing. The execution of this option will not be at the AF's expense. Students will not be excluded in participating in JROTC events if they cannot afford appropriate civilian attire.

b. Blue jeans will need to meet written school policy and be hole-free. If a school policy does not exist then the SASI will determine if the jeans are presentable.

c. Civilian attire, as set forth in this policy letter, may be worn by cadets during CIA trips that do not require military interaction. During a base visit, for example, all cadets will be in an AF uniform appropriate for the planned activities. The SASI will standardize uniform wear, or appropriate civilian attire, for CIA trips, or other visits and events.

Finally, I would like to add in Section 10, which is a clarification for the cadet lightweight blue jacket.

10. Clarification of wearing the cadet lightweight blue jacket. According to AFI36-2903 Figure 2.11, the lightweight blue jacket:

a. May be worn indoors or outdoors and must be zipped at least halfway.

b. May be worn with civilian clothes when insignia is removed. (Unit patches do not have to be removed)

c. The AF symbol is optional. May be embroidered on the left side at members cost and is not authorized to be worn with civilian clothes.

d. Women may wear the male version of the lightweight blue jacket.

I hope this will suffice, as this is what I can offer. If queries of other sections are brought forth, I will gladly pull the text from the memorandum in the same way I have done with these sections.

Thank You TruBlu, trust me i kept trying to upload the file, and when that didn't work, I just ran out of time attempting to type it.

[C/Msgt.wraith]

I've been hearing these rumors of JROTC being an alternate to another class for freshman. Anybody else hear about this?

[TruBlu]

I've been hearing these rumors of JROTC being an alternate to another class for freshman. Anybody else hear about this?

This is specific to our county, at least what you have been hearing is. We, and by we I mean our SASI, is attempting to get AFJROTC as an alternate course for freshman students who would rather not take the class "Freshman Focus." From what I know, there hasn't been much headway.

[Drill for life]

Please, please, please let's see some of the regs. C/Captain Black, either I see some current regs, or I'm just going to discard what you say as myth or a lie. Last I checked, no item of the United States Air Force uniform is to be mixed with uniforms of other services, or civilian clothes, and I find it very hard to believe without hard evidence that removing the patches or insignias makes it okay to wear with civilian clothing. Now, it's possible that I could be very ignorant and have missed the new regulation, but that's just me. If you could provide the section of AFI 36-2903 that says that, I'd be the first to admit I screwed up.

Hey I wear my AJROTC Windbreaker with Civilan Clothes because it it warm and quite frankly I love it.

[Billyd]

Hey I wear my AJROTC Windbreaker with Civilan Clothes because it it warm and quite frankly I love it.

Just because you can do a thing, doesn't make it right. AirForceAlways is correct, refer to your governing directives and comply with them.

[C/Msgt.wraith]

This is specific to our county, at least what you have been hearing is. We, and by we I mean our SASI, is attempting to get AFJROTC as an alternate course for freshman students who would rather not take the class "Freshman Focus." From what I know, there hasn't been much headway.

Why would our SASI want to do that? More numbers?

[TruBlu]

Why would our SASI want to do that? More numbers?

That is correct, but it has its disadvantages as well. We can talk more about that off the forum though.

[space3math]

As TruBlu quoted above, both Air Force general dress and appearance regs and AFJROTC-specific uniform regs specifically allow for wearing the lightweight jacket with civilian clothing, as long as the Air Force "origami" insignia is not embroidered onto the jacket.

[Drill for life]

Well my SAI and AI said it was fine, I can't wear rank on it but I can wear our unit crest on the Right lapel and the R.O.T.C. Officer emblem on the Left lapel.

[TruBlu]

Well my SAI and AI said it was fine, I can't wear rank on it but I can wear our unit crest on the Right lapel and the R.O.T.C. Officer emblem on the Left lapel.

Sounds out of regulation to me, but because I speak only for the AF cadet corps, I cannot say it is. YOU need to check the AJROTC version of the AFJROTC's Uniform and Awards Guide and see if that is an allowable practice. What instructors say is not always within regulation, and from what I have seen here on this forum, you are a "squared away" cadet, and a "squared away" cadet knows his/her regulations.

I cannot imagine the AJROTC's regulations to be far off from the AFJROTC's regulations, so you really do need to check into this, whether or not you have 'permission.'

[Cdt_Lewis]

This year our unit was presented with the option of not issuing uniforms to first year cadets for the first semester. Our SASI gave our upperstaff the decision that would affect for years to come. After disscussing it we all 100% agreed that the idea was ludicrous and decided to keep our policies the same.

[Stryfe]

Our unit is the opposite way. We don't issue uniforms to AS1 Cadets until their 2nd Semester, because we feel the Uniform is something that has to be earned before it can be worn. To us, it would be like paying a child's allowance before he did his chores for the week. The only instance in which a AS1 Cadet can be issued their uniform before 2nd Semester is if he/she is apart of our Drill team (Which is how I got mine).

I'm going to have to disagree with your statement of how you all agreed that the idea was ludicrous, because I can't find how it is. Could you please elaborate on how you're unit came to this decision?

[Cdt_Lewis]

Well since we started the program all cadets have been issued the uniform. We find it hard to imagine not issuing it to first years. We teach the standards of the uniform in the first semester of class and if the cadets didnt have to wear it they would not wear it properly. Also alot of our first years are primary people on our drill teams. Many cadets do not like the uniform and it would not be an incentive for them.

[TruBlu]

The uniform has been part of the curriculum for years and is the most base element of uniformity (hint hint) within an organization. The uniform is not only a grade to many of us, it's a sign of cohesive action and the 'teamwork' mentality. The only reason this policy ever can up is because JROTC, AFJROTC in particular, is scraping the bottom of the barrel for cadets and we all need more. This was one option to get more people, but they left it as an option. I think it's ridiculous that the uniform could take a back seat, but then again, I'd rather see something slightly altered than completely done away with.

[Cdt_Lewis]

I agree with you. My staff had the chance to decide. We decided as we thought fit. Exactly what you said is one of the many points that our cadets came up with. Luckily we were given the opportunity to decide and not have it done with out our input.

[Stryfe]

Yes, the uniform is a symbol of heraldry, which is one of the first classes our AS1 cadets have. However, I don't think the uniform should just be used as a recruiting tool. When AS1 cadets first join in my unit, they are given a standard grey T-Shirt with Air Force on it to compensate for the uniform.

Usually, within the first few uniform days we have, and they get a good look at some older cadets with multi row ribbon racks, and the likes, they usually find that to be incentive enough to work hard through the first semester to earn their uniform.

Of course, each unit is different, and I respect every way each Corps handles their unit.

[Cdt_Lewis]

Of course. Our program has a recruiting problem and most of the first years we get dont even want to be in there. We are so small we cant afford to do it that way. If we could that would be outstanding.

[Stryfe]

Of course. Our program has a recruiting problem and most of the first years we get dont even want to be in there. We are so small we cant afford to do it that way. If we could that would be outstanding.

I understand what you're saying and my unit can relate in a way. While I wouldn't say we're so small that we have to beg people to join just so our unit isn't disbanded..most people just join our JROTC so they can get the Practical Arts credit. My AS1 class only has 4-5 people in it, myself included, who I believe will make it to our Senior year and still be apart of JROTC.

[Psybadek]

I'm actually quite suprised to hear that the AFJROTC program has such difficulty in recruiting new members. When I graduated high school in NJROTC my unit was a small battalion. I went back last month and now it's closing in on Regiment size. It's grown a lot in 6 years.

[Stryfe]

I'm actually quite suprised to hear that the AFJROTC program has such difficulty in recruiting new members. When I graduated high school in NJROTC my unit was a small battalion. I went back last month and now it's closing in on Regiment size. It's grown a lot in 6 years.

I was surprised as well. When I joined my AFJROTC unit I was under the assumption we'd we a very large unit. Upon joining, however, I've found out our unit is only around 170-180 Cadets, and we're all anxious because once our SASI retires within the next few years, we don't know how the unit will mesh with the new SASI and how that'll affect things.

I think the root of the problem comes in 2 forms.

One being School/PTA funding: I don't think the school likes to spend quite alot on the ROTC unit's due to their varied sizes..although this can be debated, i've seen schools with an entire Bloc or Wing of their school dedicated to their ROTC..while my school offers us nothing more than a small supply closet, and room.

The other problem being through students who aren't in ROTC. Unfortunatly, at my school people in ROTC are looked upon as "Uncool" and "nerds", etc. Usually, it's not until someone actually joins ROTC and gains a better understanding of it do they change their views. I don't like saying that I think alot of the size issues of ROTC units are due to misinformed students guiding away future cadet's from joining, because its "Uncool".

[Psybadek]

The other problem being through students who aren't in ROTC. Unfortunatly, at my school people in ROTC are looked upon as "Uncool" and "nerds", etc. Usually, it's not until someone actually joins ROTC and gains a better understanding of it do they change their views. I don't like saying that I think alot of the size issues of ROTC units are due to misinformed students guiding away future cadet's from joining, because its "Uncool".

That wasn't ever a problem with my school, all though I do know it is a problem at some schools. I always enjoyed putting on my uniform for C.A.P or NJROTC, I had pride wearing it. I enjoyed it more when I was finally eligible to wear my Class A's for NJROTC, cause well chicks love a man in uniform lol.

[Stryfe]

That wasn't ever a problem with my school, all though I do know it is a problem at some schools. I always enjoyed putting on my uniform for C.A.P or NJROTC, I had pride wearing it. I enjoyed it more when I was finally eligible to wear my Class A's for NJROTC, cause well chicks love a man in uniform lol.
Indeed the chicks do love a guy in uniform! Especially my Exhibition uniform haha :P I'm glad to hear that it's not that big of a problem at your school. It's a huge problem at mine. Of course I'm honoured to wear my Service Dress in school, and not ashamed at all, not as in anyone should be, of course.

Another thing I think people can't get past is the hair cutting. I know that was a huge problem for me when I first joined. I love my long hair. But Service before Self right? I actually like how I like with a short cut when I gel it up haha.

[Psybadek]

Wearing my uniform I never had a problem finding a date for the Military Ball (or even prom actually) I would always ask a girl while I was wearing it. They couldn't resist lol. But either your unit or AFJROTC must be different with uniform issuing. I know with my unit everyone had to wear there salt n pepper's for uniform day (until you reached a certain rank) That was the only uniform C/ PO1 and under could wear. (With the exception of the winter blues in the winter time) At C/CPO and up we could wear the service dress or khaki uniform.

But yeah the hair cutting took me a while to get used to, I liked having longer hair and it was a shame to see it go, but I found a style I liked while I was in it. :)

[Stryfe]

We've got a T-Shirt that we wear every other week, and we wear our Service dress every other week, so in between those weeks. However, unless its a Formal Uniform Day or a Promotion Board, we can wear our Uniform minus the Service Dress (Not sure what the shirt is called) with our Ribbons, Ranks, etc, transferred onto that.

It was really stupid this year for us. Our Military Ball is this Friday, and Prom is the next day. And because of that our SASI told us we wern't allowed to have dates? Was looking forward to getting a date for it because I can't go to Prom.

[Cdt_Lewis]

My units problem is the fact that we live in a rural town. Its a very small school consisting of about 800 people at the high school and around 200people in the 9th grade at a junior high. Our school is a football school. NOTHING matters but football. To add on to that most people in our school are country hicks, the type that go for agri and construction tech. It disheartens me to think our program is thought of near to last in everything. That is why we have a recruiting issue though.

[DoubleHelix]

But yeah the hair cutting took me a while to get used to, I liked having longer hair and it was a shame to see it go, but I found a style I liked while I was in it. :)

4 on the top, 2 on the sides. Haven't changed it since freshmen year of high school.

Stryfe, if the unit is having trouble getting money from the schools, then you need to see about other ways. If your unit doesn't have a booster club, they need to form one. You can always try to fundraise too.

And 170-180 cadets is not a bad sized unit. We were probably pulling about the same size at my high school (3000+ students).

Kids will always make joke's about the people in the JROTC, it's what people do, we make fun of each other. Just ignore it and move on. Around junior/senior year I saw it drop off among the upperclassmen, just scrawny freshmen starting trouble.

[Armed Drill Addict]

I was surprised as well. When I joined my AFJROTC unit I was under the assumption we'd we a very large unit. Upon joining, however, I've found out our unit is only around 170-180 Cadets.

ONLY 170-180, that's huge compared to my school. At our peak this year we had 120, but after the big surge of freshmen dropped the class at the semester it went down alot. At our Spring Review/ Awards Night last light we had 70 cadets total.

[Stryfe]

ONLY 170-180, that's huge compared to my school. At our peak this year we had 120, but after the big surge of freshmen dropped the class at the semester it went down alot. At our Spring Review/ Awards Night last light we had 70 cadets total.

Yeah I know our unit isn't that bad compared to some others. But the problem is most of them are only in it for the Practical Arts credit to graduate. We have our Dining Out tomorrow night and out of all the cadets in our unit we're only expecting 50-60 to show up.

[Cdt_Lewis]

Shoot, we are lucky to hit 100. That number was at the start of the year and it just drops all year. We ended up around 70-80 cadets right now.

[DiscoSnake]

I know back in JROTC the units need the numbers to keep the program up and running, but look at it this way. At least the ones that remain are dedicated to their unit. It is dang near impossible to train someone who doesn't want to be there, especially in high school. It doesn't change too much in Senior ROTC. I mean my unit had been sitting at around 60 cadets for about a year now. WE may hit around 90 next semester assuming all of us come back from FT and the freshmen actually do enter.

In the senior level it applies, and I think it should in the Junior level too. It should be about quality not quantity.

[TruBlu]

In the senior level it applies, and I think it should in the Junior level too. It should be about quality not quantity.

Yeah, but when an instructor's job is on the line, you go for quantity and work with what you get and focus on the good.

[DiscoSnake]

Yeah, but when an instructor's job is on the line, you go for quantity and work with what you get and focus on the good.

This is very true. For three years my former JROTC unit was on the verge of being shut down before a mass amount joined. I know my instructors were always nervous about the numbers, but they kept going strong no matter how few we had. The way I see it, it's about working with what you got and looking for the gems within the rocks. No matter how dull the gem may be it is still a gem.

[Cdt_Lewis]

Yea I agree with you. Friday was my last day of school and a cadet came up to me and gave me a letter. It said somthing along the lines of Thank you for making Jrotc a meaningful class At first I only joined it for a blowoff class, but thanks to you I am excited about coming to the class next year. It gave me chills to know i made such an impact on a cadet.

[DiscoSnake]

It is actually amazing on how much of an impact an orgnization or person can make on an individual. This is why I always tell people in the JROTC units and such that despite where you are at, in uniform or not, you are still representing your branch of service. So always carry yourself with dignity and respect, and to keep your branch's core values showing through you. Or something along those lines.

[PoisonedGingerbread]

In my opinion, this uniform policy change will NOT increase the number of CONTINUING cadets. And after all, isn't ONE of the main goals of the AS1 class to get these cadets to continue? If a cadet, has not accepted the uniform their first year what is going to convince that cadet to come back next year? Unless they have serious military aspirations, I do not think a AS1 cadet would continue after they got their "free" P.E. credit or got their "free" class.

What exactly is this policy going to do to get a greater continuing number in the Air Force/Army/Marine Core/Navy/Coast Guard JROTC?

[DiscoSnake]

What exactly are you trying to say?

[PoisonedGingerbread]

Sorry for the rambling, I hope my edited version provides the basic synopsis.

[TruBlu]

The whole idea behind this is to increase the amount of cadets enrolled in the program by offering the first year uniform free. The uniform free "policy" is an option that AFJROTCHQ is making available to AFJROTC units, so the uniform wear for first years is now up to the SASI and the principal of the school, as long as a 'proper image' is maintained. In short, if kids know they don't have to wear a uniform, it makes us that much 'better,' but at what cost? Sacrifice the most base element of uniformity and esprit de corps for a few more cadets? For some units, a neccessary evil when instructors' jobs are on the line and a unit is on the verge of closure. I've thought about it, and it's a good option to have for a plan 'C.'

[DiscoSnake]

Yeah, I mean I will be honest and say that if my job was on the line it would be the absolute dead last resort to bring cadets in. But sacrificing the image of the Air Force or any branch to get cadets is a major blow to the men and women in, were in, and will enter. But a way to look at the uniform is to tell the cadets that it comes as no cost, unless damaged and so on.

[PoisonedGingerbread]

TruBlu: But what is our plan 'A' and 'B'? Thankfully we have not had to act upon the threat of closure yet. However, what is JROTC for any branch with out, as you said, "the most base element of uniformity and esprit de corps".
My issue is, what comes AFTER the AS1? Do you really think these cadets will continue on with their JROTC education?

DiscoSnake:That would be a good idea to use. I do remember being asked by several friends and parents at recruiting events how much the uniform would cost. Another way to look at it would be to say is in economic times, this class (at least my AFJROTC unit) is a relatively inexpensive class your AS1, with the exception of 3 $5 field trips. I mean, $5 for the silver and blue tag for service and regular blues. I do have to exclude the cost of the dining in and military ball, as those are optional and the tags are 'required' (if you would not like points taken off during inspection and would like to participate in certain events). And during AS2+, unless you so choose, you do not have to purchase the tags.

[DiscoSnake]

The ones that truly are dedicated will remain. Yes, something should be done to retain those cadets after their freshman year, but allowing a year off from the uniform isn't the way. Imagine how the upperclassmen would react to it. I believe the demonstartions first hand of what JROTC actually is about will be a big thing. I know before I joined JROTC all I thought it was about was yelling and marching around.

[TruBlu]

My issue is, what comes AFTER the AS1? Do you really think these cadets will continue on with their JROTC education?

The issue is not of having them continue in the curriculum, but to maintain high AS1 numbers to make up for a smaller, more dedicated upperclassmen class of cadets (in terms of numbers). Maintaining and retaining are two completely different objects; this policy focuses on maintaining.

[DiscoSnake]

How does maintain and retain differ?

[PoisonedGingerbread]

DiscoSnake: I just do not think it would HELP convince the numbers to steadily increase.. I do agree when you say that its the first impression that counts. That is a major contributor to my involvement in the corps to date.
TruBlu: But what is maintaining going to do for the corps that retaining cannot do? I guess I am just not understanding why HQ would rather maintain for short term than retain for the long run?

[DiscoSnake]

My advice to you would be to speak with out JROTC units and ask how they do it. Not just Air Force of course.

[TruBlu]

Here's what I mean by maintain and retain. To maintain a unit means that it's still there and not in jeopardy of closure or instructor loss. This policy is a maintaining policy that focuses on getting more first year cadets to make up for a lack of upperclassmen. They are not focused (with this policy) on having these cadets stay, but instead rely on the same influx of first years for subsequent years to maintain a minimum cadet amount. Retaining cadets means that they come for their first year and continue on for the rest. This would mean that a unit would build year after year with a large amount of returning cadets. While this policy does not work against that goal, and AFJROTCHQ is certainly working towards a retaining policy, it does not focus on the returning aspect, outside of upper class cadets being required to wear the uniform.

[DiscoSnake]

Ahh yes that does make sense. Only time will tell on working methods.

[PoisonedGingerbread]

Hopefully HQ will be able to come up with a retaining policy that works to sustain the number of AS1+'s. This is a quick-fix, and we may soon come to find out we are going to have to work at patching any holes/problems that arise while working to find a long term solution.

[DiscoSnake]

As long as AJFROTCHQ doesn't expect to make a fix all grand solution, then I doubt there will be many problems.

[TruBlu]

Recruiting cadets is not the goal of AFJROTCHQ, but it is to maintain AFJROTC and the instructors that it employs. HQ probably allowed this policy to come through because it was at the request of many units that would quickly diminish without some major altercations (not to mention this saves a lot of money to fund other areas). It's up to individual Cadet Corps to come up with recruiting and retaining methods and employ them as they see fit, as long as they are within the regulations of course.

[youngairmen94]

Well that's the fault of your Unit's Instructors. They know the regulations, but they choose to disregard them. I mean its only in plain English.

Storm

Storm, our unit's $5,000 in the hole. its hard s**t to deal action on but its easy to say words from miles away from the problem. im a freshman and i would be nearly decimated if i couldnt wear my uni!

[TruBlu]

Storm, our unit's $5,000 in the hole. its hard s**t to deal action on but its easy to say words from miles away from the problem. im a freshman and i would be nearly decimated if i couldnt wear my uni!

You are arguing with a wall man, StormCrow hasn't been online since early December of last year.