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JohnP
07-09-2009, 02:19 PM
Study: No best way to deal with stress

By Kelly Kennedy - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 16:59:12 EDT

After several studies showed that people who react emotionally during a stressful event are more likely to develop symptoms for post-traumatic stress disorder later, researchers wanted to see whether the obverse was true: Are people who react to a stressful situation by problem-solving, rather than by becoming numb or feeling as if they’re in a daze, less likely to develop acute stress symptoms that could lead to PTSD?
The logical answer might seem to be yes. But researchers were surprised to find that’s not necessarily the case.
Researchers from the Naval Health Research Center in San Diego tried to figure out how much the way a person interacts with his environment can affect his mental health. They also wondered whether behavior during stressful training situations might be a possible predictor for PTSD.
“A central premise of leading theories of human stress is that the stress response results from a complex interaction of the human with his or her environment,” lead researcher Marcus Taylor wrote in a study published in the June issue of the Journal of Traumatic Stress.
“It was hypothesized that perceived stress as well as passive and emotion-focused coping styles reported prior to survival training would associate with higher acute stress symptoms in response to stress training,” Taylor wrote. “By contrast, it was expected that active and problem-focused coping styles would predict lower acute stress symptoms.”
The researchers looked at one of the most stressful environments they could find: Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape training. They already knew that 96 percent of service members going through the training experience peritraumatic dissociative symptoms — they become emotionally numb, unaware of their surroundings or feel as if they were watching the event from outside themselves.
First, researchers asked 35 healthy sailors who participated in the study about recent stressful situations in their recent past and how they reacted to it: Did they feel as if they could do nothing because the situation was out of their control? Or did they try to come up with solutions, such as cutting up credit cards to help fight financial woes or going for counseling to deal with marriage troubles? Did they see stressful events as a challenge to be overcome or a difficulty only time could heal?
Researchers also asked how often the sailors felt nervous or stressed, as well as how often they felt upset when something unexpected happened.
After the mock captivity portion of the training — when service members are taken prisoner by “enemy” forces and then expected to escape — researchers questioned the sailors about how they felt during the exercise: “Did you feel as if you were watching the situation as an observer or spectator? Did you space out or in some way lose track of what is going on?”
They found that there was, as prior research has shown, a strong correlation between passive, emotion-based reactions to perceived stress in a sailor’s life and acute stress symptoms during the SERE training.
But they were surprised to find that those who normally deal with stress by actively trying to problem-solve were all over the board when it came to whether they had acute stress symptoms during SERE training.
“We have shown that higher levels of perceived stress and use of passive and emotion-focused coping styles prior to survival training are associated with higher levels of acute stress symptoms in response to survival training,” Taylor wrote. “However, we further expected that active and problem-focused coping would associate with lower acute stress symptoms during survival training.
“But this hypothesis was not supported.”
The researchers did not ask long-term follow-up questions of the sailors, so they do not know to what extent, if at all, problem-solving skills protect against PTSD, but they intend to explore that question further.
“More research is needed to clarify the role of task-oriented, problem-focused and active coping on the human response to acute stress,” Taylor wrote.

During my times in survival school, I preferred the out of body experiences. I thought it was better to react and cope with the situation as a 3rd person and not as an active participant. (For the record, my camel and I escaped from Fairchild for about 2 hours before being caught again.) :D

PTSD is a situation that needs to be dealt with more attention that what’s being given now. My symptoms are a lot less than others for several reasons:
1. I have a great support system of close friends and family who’ve BTDT and can relate to me.
2. I haven’t been in as much sh** at others and I had a he11 of a lot more training than others rior to going into the show.
3. I've realized I was a 4 tier volunteer for the programs that I was in.

How about you guys who have been in the Sand Box for numerous occasions?

Have you seen the symptoms in yourself or comrades?

SGM
07-10-2009, 10:35 AM
After I got back from Iraq, I had some problems, but for the first year I had a buddy who was in VN I would visit about once a month, spend the weekend and chew the fat, drink beer, BBQ and talk. Then he moved to Portugal leaving me to my own devices. It was hard as there are no Vet groups here, no other American around. I went through some anger times, but now I think I got things worked out. Once in a while I find myself falling in the sandpit, but somehow I climb out. What do I attest it to? Military training? Life experiences? My faith?, don't really have an answer. I know many times I wish I had a vet group to visit and talk, but I will make it.

Woody
07-10-2009, 11:40 AM
Had a few symptons that faded with time surprised me as I couldn't really
think of anything that was particulary traumatic in Iraq at the time .

Redleg
07-10-2009, 11:05 PM
After several studies showed that people who react emotionally during a stressful event are more likely to develop symptoms for post-traumatic stress disorder later, researchers wanted to see whether the obverse was true: Are people who react to a stressful situation by problem-solving, rather than by becoming numb or feeling as if they’re in a daze, less likely to develop acute stress symptoms that could lead to PTSD?
The logical answer might seem to be yes. But researchers were surprised to find that’s not necessarily the case.

The exception I believe is when one is in a stressful combat situation and relies on immediate action (problem solving) while under fire and only concentrates on his training for a successful completion of his mission. There is not time for phlegmatic reflections.
However after hostilities cease and in viewing the aftermath, this is a time when the recent past events can likely be viewed as in the third person or an "out of body" reflection.
Since the two situations are certainly connected in a single combat operation, it would likely be a toss-up to which encounter would cause the intrusive PTSD.

SGM
07-11-2009, 12:34 PM
Good point Redleg, I think there is where all the shoulda woulda coulda comes up. Sometimes we start second guessing what we did to complete the mission.

Redleg
07-11-2009, 10:18 PM
Good point Redleg, I think there is where all the shoulda woulda coulda comes up. Sometimes we start second guessing what we did to complete the mission.

I agree, and I look at it as two different aspects.
One would be the second guessing of how our actions could have changed the results and the second is whether or not a different course of action would have changed the event or not, we still retain an amount of guilt associated with the end results.

I have often heard troopers stating they should have done this or that especially when troops are killed, but troops do not always fall because of a leaders pro-actions but more likely because of hesitation or inaction.
I think this is where a building of experience comes to leaders in future missions, but the stress of past actions will most likely remain no matter how you rationalize them.

Intrusive (unwanted) stress and being hopelessly in love both parellel borderline mental illness in my opinion, in the respect that in either situation we may not be able to rationalize and take control what we are experiencing.

SGM
07-12-2009, 01:47 AM
Redleg,
Here is where I think the Army has gone wrong - in trying to make all soldiers leaders (taking away the SP ranks above SP4). I believe a natural born leader is the one who will be proactive, lead from the front. I don't know how this will effect the "second guess syndrom" but I do believe in the long run it will decrease the effects of PTSD, I maybe wrong. I think the one who are forced into the leaderships and not have the natural abilities will hesitate, wait that split second, not making a decision which should have been made. Here is where a lot of second guessing comes in and PTSD.

After saying the above, even the best leader who is proactive and does the best there is can not control the situation once combat starts. All he can do is try to insure his men are trained to the best he can do, set the example of how to lead, think and act, hoping this filters down to his men. If all went to hell in an operation, I believe this strong leader would do a lot of second guessing because of his attachment and care for his men.

MOM
07-12-2009, 01:51 AM
Intrusive (unwanted) stress and being hopelessly in love both parellel borderline mental illness in my opinion,
in the respect that in either situation we may not be able to rationalize and take control what we are experiencing.

I don't know about combat related stress so can't speak to that,
but I do know that the above statement is very true.

Redleg
07-12-2009, 08:19 AM
Redleg,
Here is where I think the Army has gone wrong - in trying to make all soldiers leaders (taking away the SP ranks above SP4). I believe a natural born leader is the one who will be proactive, lead from the front. I don't know how this will effect the "second guess syndrom" but I do believe in the long run it will decrease the effects of PTSD, I maybe wrong. I think the one who are forced into the leaderships and not have the natural abilities will hesitate, wait that split second, not making a decision which should have been made. Here is where a lot of second guessing comes in and PTSD.

After saying the above, even the best leader who is proactive and does the best there is can not control the situation once combat starts. All he can do is try to insure his men are trained to the best he can do, set the example of how to lead, think and act, hoping this filters down to his men. If all went to hell in an operation, I believe this strong leader would do a lot of second guessing because of his attachment and care for his men.

SGM:

I believe it all boils down to leadership selection and training, and the old Specialist ranks of E-5 and above were just that...a Specialist.
Unlike our Marines where it may take you 5 years to make E-5. the Army came up with that Specialist rank somewhere after the Korean war perhaps to prevent stop-loss, to provide a more rapid pay grade advancement, and maybe to seperate the combat arms from the REMF's ranks. (?) ;)

Perhaps with the today's military manpower turnover because of all related war issues, like during Vietnam, there is a constant changing of command on the NCO and lower officer ranks. Surely, an accelerated turnover rate coupled with limited training and OJT will effect not only the field efficiency of these personnel but may also be a catalyst of prolonged lesion and stress.

After saying the above, even the best leader who is proactive and does the best there is can not control the situation once combat starts. All he can do is try to insure his men are trained to the best he can do, set the example of how to lead, think and act, hoping this filters down to his men. If all went to hell in an operation, I believe this strong leader would do a lot of second guessing because of his attachment and care for his men.

I firmly agree with this, and would like to add that the leader must be an effective communicator in all respects especially under fire where his troops will anticipate his next command as their survival may depend on it.
I used to complain about some of the RTO's I had to work with in the field, and the O-3 would tell me to work with what I had and demand excellence from them.

Redleg
07-12-2009, 08:25 AM
I don't know about combat related stress so can't speak to that,
but I do know that the above statement is very true.

:D Know the feeling well, MOM.
What we need in life is a user's guide not to fall into limerence bear traps like co-dependency and unrequited love syndromes. ;)

SGM
07-12-2009, 10:20 AM
SGM:

I believe it all boils down to leadership selection and training, and the old Specialist ranks of E-5 and above were just that...a Specialist.
Unlike our Marines where it may take you 5 years to make E-5. the Army came up with that Specialist rank somewhere after the Korean war perhaps to prevent stop-loss, to provide a more rapid pay grade advancement, and maybe to seperate the combat arms from the REMF's ranks. (?) ;)


I believe the SP ranks were designed to give pay increases to those who weren't leaders but were good soldiers. Soldiers who had the technical skills, proficancy in their MOS, ability to get the job done as told. Yes they needed to be better paid for being that way. But at the same time they were not leader material. And I am a firm believer in this today.

JohnP
07-12-2009, 11:03 AM
I had to work with in the field, and the O-3 would tell me to work with what I had and demand excellence from them.

I find this to be a true statement, even in the civilian world. If you set high standards, people will strive to achieve them.