Judging History

[Murray B]

A few years back I came upon this interesting story:

http://home.att.net/~w.tomtschik/WW2OBindex.html

Apparently it is a true story about the life of a fellow that goes by the handle Joscha. Joscha also claimed on other sites that he was in the U.S. Army in Vietnam.

What do you think about this story? Is it a complete fabrication, partially true, or mostly true?

It is hard for a civilian 'computer guy' like me to know for sure.

[Redleg]

"...Late in 1940, just before Christmas, I was transferred to a newly formed division, the 100th Light Mountain Infantry Division, which died at Stalingrad..."

This unit was actually the 100th Motorized Infantry Division which was not new and was destroyed along with the 6th Army at Stalingrad.

Other good reads on personal experiences of the Eastern Front:
The Forgotten Soldier
The Black March

[Lee Ragan]

I read the forgotten Soldier earlier this year. It was a real eye opener for me. I knew that Eastern Front was brutal, but the descriptions by the author added a new dimension. It was a long, horrible war and those who lived it, experienced some of the worst conditions imaginable. The Russian winters are legendary in their brutality and contributed so much to the daily fatigue, hunger and plain old sickness that affected everyone involved.
I usually don't have any sympathy for Nazis, but these common German (and Russian), soldiers suffered in ways we can't even imagine. I'm just gald I've never faced anything like that in my lifetime.
If you think there is any glamour in war, just read this book.

[Murray B]

Other good reads on personal experiences of the Eastern Front:

Joscha's story is interesting because he claimed to have used night vision equipment in a PzVIb on the Eastern front. That is something that I cannot find in any written source available to me. The claim has historical value only if it is true.

With the Internet any hoaxter can write false "history" so that is why I'm asking about this particular story.

[Redleg]

Joscha's story is interesting because he claimed to have used night vision equipment in a PzVIb on the Eastern front. That is something that I cannot find in any written source available to me. The claim has historical value only if it is true.

With the Internet any hoaxter can write false "history" so that is why I'm asking about this particular story.

Murray, I have trouble reading the entire text.

The only night vision I can remember the Krauts had was on the ME-110 night fighters late in the war.

I'm trying to figure out how he went from the German Army to the Luftwaffe (Para's were Air Force ground troops) and back to the Army again.
This dude had more MOS's than HEB had Hearts. ;)

28 Russkie T34 kills with a couple of King Tigers and the Russkies were nonchalant about it? I don't recall him being up there with Panzer Ace: Michael Wittman.

[Murray B]

The only night vision I can remember the Krauts had was on the ME-110 night fighters late in the war.

There are sources that indicate night vision devices were fitted to the commander's cupola of a few PzVs on the Western Front.

I'm trying to figure out how he went from the German Army to the Luftwaffe (Para's were Air Force ground troops) and back to the Army again. This dude had more MOS's than HEB had Hearts. ;)

Okay, here is something about Vietnam that he posted at http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1733
I am glad I can set you straight: even though my parent unit was MAC-V, there were a lot of people who went all over the Republic and even beyond; Cambodga comes to mind, and Laos. While I never went even one step into these countries, I nevertheless was NOT an REMF, I went into the boonies as my job required.

Suffice it to say that I was listed as a field investigator. As such, I visited outlying units and teams, and while being a guest at an A-team, I was wounded in a night action. Nothing out of the normal - Mr. Cong jumped that team's site and lost 35 men in the process. I was wounded in both legs and the left foot. Nobody was KIA, and I was the only WIA. That little scrap earned me the Bronze Star.

Note that he writes "MAC-V" instead of the more common MACV.

28 Russkie T34 kills with a couple of King Tigers and the Russkies were nonchalant about it? I don't recall him being up there with Panzer Ace: Michael Wittman.

Any T34s killed with night vision sights are almost certainly going to be parked. Wittman destroyed manned vehicles. The "Russkies" have lied so hard and for so long that I don't think even they know their history. About all I would expect to find about this event would some record of infra-red gun sights or even lenses.

Early night vision systems were low-resoluton and low-sensitivity. They required a giant infra-red searchlight and generator which were carried on a truck. The entire system could be defeated by shooting out the searchlight. Seeing the light would only require a glass plate coated with something that glows under infra-red light. This is what I would look for in archival sources to confirm the claim. Sadly, not finding anything about it would prove nothing since the absense of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.

[Redleg]

It seems your premise of a vehicle such as a Opel Blitz truck or a Hanomag or Wumag 251 half track is correct. I don't see where this huge contraption was ever mounted on a Pz VI Auf B. The war ended in May '45


...Sperber (Sparrow Hawk) was made up of one 30cm infrared searchlight (with range of 600m) and image converter operated by the commander - FG 1250. From late 1944 to March of 1945, some Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausf G (and other variants) mounted with FG 1250, were succesfully tested. From March to April of 1945, approximately 50 Panthers Ausf G (and other variants) mounted with FG 1250, saw combat service on the Eastern Front and Western Front. Panthers with IR operated with SdKfz.251/20 Uhu (Owl) half-track with 60cm infra-red searchlight and Sd.Kfz.251/21 Falke (Falcon).

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/RedlegFN/251-1.jpg

So in what time line did he knock out those Russkie T-34's? If he was a driver in a Tiger II (Pz VI B) training unit how did he end up in a field unit KO-ing 28 bogies?

"...Early in 1943, I was returned to Panzer Replecement Bn and was sent to the newly created 216th Sturmpanzer Abteilung. Went with this unit through the Kursk battle, Dnepropetrovsk, and other delightful places. Being wounded again, I was returned to Germany and caught up with my unit in Italy.

In October 1944, I was transferred to a training unit to be used as a Tiger II driver, I did, and I was captured by the Russians in late April 45. Esacaped, was captured by the Americans and released to go home..."

[Redleg]

He posted this at the same Kraut site? How did he explain the quantun leap?

See if you can find the correct link.

"...I am glad I can set you straight: even though my parent unit was MAC-V, there were a lot of people who went all over the Republic and even beyond; Cambodga comes to mind, and Laos. While I never went even one step into these countries, I nevertheless was NOT an REMF, I went into the boonies as my job required.

Suffice it to say that I was listed as a field investigator. As such, I visited outlying units and teams, and while being a guest at an A-team, I was wounded in a night action. Nothing out of the normal - Mr. Cong jumped that team's site and lost 35 men in the process. I was wounded in both legs and the left foot. Nobody was KIA, and I was the only WIA. That little scrap earned me the Bronze Star..."

I still can't determine what his mission was other than perhaps a mail clerk.

[Murray B]

This unit was actually the 100th Motorized Infantry Division which was not new and was destroyed along with the 6th Army at Stalingrad.

I'm trying to figure out how he went from the German Army to the Luftwaffe (Para's were Air Force ground troops) and back to the Army again. This dude had more MOS's than HEB had Hearts.

I don't recall him being up there with Panzer Ace: Michael Wittman.

I don't see where this huge contraption was ever mounted on a Pz VI Auf B. The war ended in May '45.

If he was a driver in a Tiger II (Pz VI B) training unit how did he end up in a field unit KO-ing 28 bogies?

I still can't determine what his mission was other than perhaps a mail clerk.

So can I assume that you believe that Joscha's posts are complete fabrications? There is nothing I can add to his posts since his last message was from 2002 and I only discovered the materials a couple of years ago. There was no trace of the guy by then.

Thank you for giving your opinion.

[Redleg]

No, judging from the limited resources I can't say the Eastern Front poster is a fake.
I'm a 35 year student of WWII German armor and it's military order of battle 1935-45, and some of the times and events of his experience do mesh like the German's attack on the Kursk sailent and the unit he was attached.

What bothers me is the destruction of 28 enemy armor at night with a infrared unit which can only be effective up to 600 meters. The Tiger II was a very slow moving panzer with a top speed of 35 km/hr with a 8.8cm KwK43 L/71 gun which could defeat any known armor at the time at 1500 meters during daylight, yet unless the T-34's were unmanned, (unlikely) the Soviets would have quickly counter attack, surrounded the isolated two Tigers and destroyed them from the rear after blowing off their running gear. The Soviet loss of armor would likely have been 4-6 T-34's.
Additionally, the very first Tiger II's were issued to the Feldherrnhalle division in March of '45.

As you most likely know, Michael Wittman knocked out an entire Brit column of 30 tanks and vehicles with a single Tiger I. Catching the bunched up column on a raised road, Wittman's Tiger came out of the woods and immediately knocked out the lead and rear tanks and the rest was a turkey shoot as the Brit Sherman 75mm guns were no match for a Tiger's 88mm gun.

As far as Nam goes, there is possiblity that these posters are two entirely two different persons. However, I'm not satisified with the MACV trooper's military terminology nor his belief that a VC attack on a base camp was a normal everyday occurence.
Also, being the only wounded may mean the good inspector failed to get out of the way and could have been wounded by his own troops.
I'm also puzzled by his lack of mentioned rank of the "inspector" and a validation for his Bronze Star, and failure to mention a Purple Heart.

I would give the entire issue a questionable but perhaps a probable rating.

[Redleg]

I read the forgotten Soldier earlier this year. It was a real eye opener for me. I knew that Eastern Front was brutal, but the descriptions by the author added a new dimension. It was a long, horrible war and those who lived it, experienced some of the worst conditions imaginable. The Russian winters are legendary in their brutality and contributed so much to the daily fatigue, hunger and plain old sickness that affected everyone involved.
I usually don't have any sympathy for Nazis, but these common German (and Russian), soldiers suffered in ways we can't even imagine. I'm just gald I've never faced anything like that in my lifetime.
If you think there is any glamour in war, just read this book.

Lee, I've reread Guy Sajer's book a few times over the years and have received a different insight into the German/Russian tragedy on the Eastern Front each time.
Sajer was actually a Alsace French citizen who joined the German Army after the Nazis annexed that area because of the many Germanic volks living there.

Sajer surely had nine lives by escaping death many times through circumstance and happenstance.
I always will remember the section where he and another trooper were setting charges in front of a massive Russian attack and a very out numbered German replacement platoon was taking up positions to take on the Ivans. As Sajer and his campanion were withdrawing to the rear, a young commander of the platoon asked where they were going. Sager replied, "Sappers, sir." The young LT told them to rejoin their unit.
Sager believes that if the LT ordered them to stay and fight, they would have surely have died along with the rest of that platoon. The platoon was overrun and the new Soviet bridgehead was several miles forward the next day.

Another unforgettable character was the "Veteran" machine gunner who was an older and grizzled soldier who had the uncanny ability to size up their deployment situations and knew how to decipher the bullshit from the top.
Unfortunately, the end came for the Veteran when he decided to stop withdrawing from enemy assaults and stayed behind and fight it out alone with his trusty machine gun.
Near the end of the of the book, Sajer reveals the Veterans real name: August Werner.

[wukong]

I came across this bit of information from JohnP's post on the CCT. I adds some interesting context to this thread.

http://ccthistory.arrowmaker.com/THE_1960s.HTML

Sergeant von Ryik was born in Kronstadt, Romania, of German parents and later, while attending college in Weimer, Germany, studied aeronautical engineering; learned to fly gliders, Fokker and Dornier trainers and became a licensed private pilot.
Member of German AF – In April 1942, von Ryik enlisted in the Luftwaffe (German Air Force), received his basic training at Wetzlar, Germany and in the summer received fighter pilot training in the famous German ME 109 at Chatereaux, France. After graduating from training he was assigned duty at Wiener Neustadt, Austria, ferrying ME 109’s to France, Italy, North Africa and Russia.

Early in 1943, Sergeant von Ryik was sent into combat in Russia and later given a field commission as a lieutenant. He was credited with eight confirmed kills; 5 Rata’s, single-seat Russian fighters, and three PL 2’s - two engine Russian fighter-bombers.

Combat Action – During combat action Sergeant von Ryik was shot down three times and wounded five times. The first time was early in 1943 when he was attacked by a group of Ratas, Yaks, and King Cobras. He was able to bail out and land safely behind the German lines. The second time occurred in September of 1943 when he was hit by a Yak 9 and crashed in Russian territory. He was captured by the Russians and held prisoner among captured German infantry. That night, although suffering from a wound encounter in aerial combat he and his fellow prisoners broke out of the farm house where they had been locked, killed the guard and escaped to their own lines. The third time was in the summer of 1944 when his aircraft was shot down again by enemy aircraft forcing him to parachute, having received multiple wounds including the temporary loss of his eyesight. He was rescued by a squad of German Wehrmacht (infantry) and helped back to the German lines. Due to his wounds, Sergeant von Ryik was sent to a hospital in Poland and eventually transferred to another hospital in Austria. He recovered in December and reported for duty at Wiener Neustadt, Austria, but was grounded because of his wounds. Having excelled in previous years as a skier, he was assigned as a ski instructor with an infantry unit in Austria.

Captured By Russians – In the spring of 1945 the Russians were through the front lines and Sergeant von Ryik was sent into battle as an infantry officer. He was wounded again in the defense of Tropau, Germany and sent to a hospital in Prague, Czechoslovakia. Some months later he was captured in the hospital by the Russians and taken to a prison hospital in Poland. Later he escaped by cutting through the barbed wire and trekked 600 miles to Bavaria in the American sector of Germany, where he surrendered. He was discharged from the German Army and released by the Americans later that month.

Sergeant von Ryik then went to Vienna, Austria where he was reunited with his family in the Russian zone. After moving his family from the Russian zone into the American Zone, von Ryik was employed as interpreter for the British and American intelligence sections. In 1951 he emigrated to the USA.

Left Active Duty – The next three years of Sergeant von Ryik’s life were spent in Illinois and Indiana where he worked as a farm hand, mechanic, cab driver and truck driver.

In April 1954, Sergeant von Ryik enlisted in the Air Force and became a US citizen the following December. He married the former Joyce Lynn of Philadelphia, PA in 1956 and they now have two children.

Awards – Sergeant von Ryik’s awards and decorations include: Luftwaffe Pilot Wings, German Air Medal, German Purple Heart in Gold (wounded five times) Iron Cross 1st Class; German Cross in Gold, German Infantry Badge, for three combat operations; and the German Close Combat Badge.

“My career has just begun,” Sergeant von Ryik commented as he went to the field on another air commando combat control training mission.

NOTES:

1. This article was transcribed from a well-worn copy of an undated article that appeared in “The COMMANDO” - Base newspaper of Hurlburt Field, Florida.


2. Walter F. von Ryik, age 80, died January 27, 2004, after a long battle with cancer. A memorial service in his honor was held on Sunday, February 1 at the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of the Emerald Coast in Valparaiso.