Unit Structure

[Tollin]

My unit is ***** and we're in a decline right now, unfortunately. Our school district does not allow high school programs to reach out to middle school kids, so much that most do not know what ROTC is. It's a shame, but I made quite a few people mad with an email, so its not going to change.

With that, I'll say that my unit is rather small, about 140 cadets at the most. Disgracefully, at least 80 of those cadets are freshmen only taking the course to get out of gym. As ROTC is not going to be a gym credit in years to come, that's going to make a big exclamation point for my unit.

With that being said, here is my structure:

Senior Staff:
Group Commander
Deputy Group Commander
Deputy Group Commander
Operations Officer
Executive Officer

Squadron 1:
Squadron Commander
A Flight Commander (AS2&3)
B Flight Commander (AS1)
C Flight Commander (AS1)
D Flight Commander (AS1)
E Flight Commander (Drill Team)

Squadron 2:
Squadron Commander
CIMS Officer
Inspector General
Personnel Officer
Logistics Officer
Kitty Hawk Officer (defunct)
Aerospace Officer (defunct)
Public Affairs Officer (defunct)

(Defunct: position exists, officer is in place, does nothing, accomplishes nothing)

Pick it apart, ask questions, give me advice. I have had more than a few arguments with my ASI against my SASI about how things should run and be set up.

[TruBlu]

Check out this thread:

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/showthread.php?t=223 (The structure I have in there has changed a little, just as an FYI).

Once you've done that, post up what you think should happen to your corps and then we can go from there. And as far as 140 cadets a year, you're doing better than most of us can claim.

[Tollin]

I read through it, and it just does not sound like it will work. Everyone who has posted seems to have a very, VERY active CORPs, with almost everyone having a position. I do not.

I'd go so far as to say that 7/8 of our freshmen, the bulk of our program, sleep through ROTC class. It's really amazing how much they do not care about their grade or the program. Me, my staff, and my instructors are pretty much at a total loss as to what to do.

Which is part of the reason I made a new thread entirely about this, my unit is in shambles for much more than structure. We cannot recruit, we lose all of our freshmen, and we get less and less each year. We had four seniors graduate this year, that's all.

With that said, I think our current structure does have potential to work well. All essential jobs needed to keep the unit above the water exist, we just have unmotivated people in the positions and below them. We are unable to be selective about our officers because there is no selection. I've told my instructor "This is the best person we have for this, there's nobody else." It's a shame.

[TruBlu]

Re-organize and consolidate your cadets that want to be there. The fact that you have those who don't really want to be there, being there, is unavoidable, all units have them. You need to focus on those that do want to be there. What is the course of action that you think your corps should take? Once we know what you want to do, based on what you know first hand, we can help you out a little better. Take these questions into account (if applicable):

How many cadets do we have now?
How many cadet officers and how many are cadet enlisted?
What type of structure do we have?
How many cadets will we have?
How many will be cadet officers and how many will be cadet enlisted?
What type of structure will we have?
What positions are absolutely necessary for the most basic operation of the corps?
What positions are necessary for the corps to run effectively?

[C/Maj Spaw]

Alright, first off I would suggest try not to make anyone angry and then talk to the disitrct on why they have such a policy. Then from there talk to them about making an exception to this policy for jrotc is an academic program "To create citizens of character deticated to serving their nation and community". Also if you inform them that jrotc is a good program to talk to middle schoolers about and that the program can even set up a awareness presenitation team to do this. Then to solve the problem of the freshman, talk to them have the senior cadets talk to them and inform them on how jrotc has helped them. Convince them on how good of a program it is and that it WILL help them after school has ended with the skills and leadership learned in it. As for just the numbers I don't really know how to help that other then invite kids from other schools to join yours if their school doesn't have one, for that's where part of my corps' 280 cadets come from. But work to retain your corps of 180 cadets and work with the district to recruit more.

Best of luck to you.

[Tollin]

Re-organize and consolidate your cadets that want to be there. The fact that you have those who don't really want to be there, being there, is unavoidable, all units have them. You need to focus on those that do want to be there. What is the course of action that you think your corps should take? Once we know what you want to do, based on what you know first hand, we can help you out a little better. Take these questions into account (if applicable):

How many cadets do we have now?
How many cadet officers and how many are cadet enlisted?
What type of structure do we have?
How many cadets will we have?
How many will be cadet officers and how many will be cadet enlisted?
What type of structure will we have?
What positions are absolutely necessary for the most basic operation of the corps?
What positions are necessary for the corps to run effectively?


I will say that unfortunately we have maybe 10 cadets, at the maximum, who are interested in improving the CORPs. We have 24 officers, which is probably too many. There are currently 6 NCOs who work in logistics, doing average work. The rest of my unit are freshmen or drill team, none of them ranking about A1C.

I have absolutely no idea what to expect next year as many people are leaving, and we do not know who is coming in. The freshmen obviously will not be officers, but we do allow them to be NCOs, up to SSgt.

The positions we have, that I listed above should be sufficient to keep the system running smoothly. But that is assuming that the people placed in those positions actually do their job, which is half of the problem, I think.

[Psybadek]

One thing that might help, which is something I did along with the rest of staff, was when we seen cadet's who didn't want to be there or didn't care, we would have a one on one chat with them. We would find out what it is that they want from the course. What would make them interested. Most of them like in your unit did it for the gym credit. It's unavoidable when it's offered as an alternative, but we were a very active unit, so it was easier to get most of those cadet's to be involved. Going to drill meets, pt meets, having compititions within the unit I.E. Platoon Wars. There is a lot that can be done. It sounds like you have a lot more cadets who do not care than my unit did, but try talking to them indivually. Wear your dress uniform and talk to them one on one.

[Tollin]

One thing that might help, which is something I did along with the rest of staff, was when we seen cadet's who didn't want to be there or didn't care, we would have a one on one chat with them. We would find out what it is that they want from the course. What would make them interested. Most of them like in your unit did it for the gym credit. It's unavoidable when it's offered as an alternative, but we were a very active unit, so it was easier to get most of those cadet's to be involved. Going to drill meets, pt meets, having compititions within the unit I.E. Platoon Wars. There is a lot that can be done. It sounds like you have a lot more cadets who do not care than my unit did, but try talking to them indivually. Wear your dress uniform and talk to them one on one.

I appreciate your advice, it is quite sound on paper. Unfortunately this would not work in my unit. For some reason, and I do not know why, the cadets seem to be rather opposed to any leadership or any authority what-so-ever. It is unfathomable that these cadets are defiant even when you are trying to help them. I cannot figure it out and neither can my instructors.

It does sound like you have a very active unit, I am impressed with even that, as I'm sure your unit does more than what you have listed. My unit does virtually nothing, our school district does not permit us to do much and we have no money to use for buses. I am at a loss as to how to raise moral or build any kind of esprit de corps.

[TruBlu]

Pick it apart, ask questions, give me advice. I have had more than a few arguments with my ASI against my SASI about how things should run and be set up.

That was your last line of your first post. In between that, I've asked you twice about what you think should happen. I can tell you what I think should happen (blindly), but if you want any help out of me, please offer me that much. What do you think you and your instructors and those that care do in terms of unit structure?

[Tollin]

That was your last line of your first post. In between that, I've asked you twice about what you think should happen. I can tell you what I think should happen (blindly), but if you want any help out of me, please offer me that much. What do you think you and your instructors and those that care do in terms of unit structure?

Apologies. As far as unit structure go, TruBlu, I need something more cohesive. What I have now is very sectioned off. By this, I mean that officers are not working together to complete tasks, and no systems exist to connect positions.

I believe that is what I'm really asking for. The positions are there, they exist, but they are not running how they should. Instead of an oiled machine, I have separated blocks that do not work together and therefore do not accomplish anything.

For instance, our personnel sheets are practically blank. We do not have records of cadets participating in any activities, nor their promotion history, nor their credit for ribbons. This is because flight commanders skip over personnel and hit logistics directly. There is no chain.

So my first question is this: what systems should be in place to get the "machine" operating as it should?

And my second question is thus (and probably more related to the matter I portrayed to begin with): is this structure missing any position that I am unaware of which could help my unit?

[C/Maj Spaw]

What you may need to do is, to move most of the cadet officers to one period so that you will be better able to have communication between the certain officers. Also what you should do is to have staff meetings but gather most of your officers that are needed to help bring the unit into one smooth "machine" and communicate what you see and that it needs to be changed.

[Stryfe]

If the positions are there, and theoretically when properly manned do work, then I don't see a need for a complete Unit Restructuring. The only thing that I can see that needs to be done after reading your last post, Trollin, is for the officers that are in the staff positions to get their acts together, and once they do I'm sure everything will start to fall into place. All that's needed is effort on their part.

[TruBlu]

So my first question is this: what systems should be in place to get the "machine" operating as it should?

And my second question is thus (and probably more related to the matter I portrayed to begin with): is this structure missing any position that I am unaware of which could help my unit?

You aren't missing anything. You actually have too much. It sounds like what is happening is not a problem in organizational structure, but the positions that fill it and who fill those. Before I go further, can you give a short description of each of the positions below (I take it your flights and Squadron 1 are operating fairly well):

Group Commander
Deputy Group Commander
Deputy Group Commander
Operations Officer
Executive Officer

Squadron 2:
Squadron Commander
CIMS Officer
Inspector General
Personnel Officer
Logistics Officer
Kitty Hawk Officer
Aerospace Officer
Public Affairs Officer

[Tollin]

You aren't missing anything. You actually have too much. It sounds like what is happening is not a problem in organizational structure, but the positions that fill it and who fill those. Before I go further, can you give a short description of each of the positions below (I take it your flights and Squadron 1 are operating fairly well):


I can do that, and yes, you are correct in assuming that my Squadron 1 operates fairly well.

Group Commander: My job. I control the corps and meet with senior staff to come up with ideas for the corps. I make calls on structure and events and work with the SASI to set standards, etc.

Deputy Group Commander: Takes control in my absense. Realistically, just a buffer between myself and everyone else. Used as auxillary and manpower in events. Advises, presents opinions, and presents ideas.

Deputy Group Commander: Same as above.

Operations Officer: Ensures that all events are followed through, follows up on suspenses. Has had to do the work of Mission Support this year.

Executive Officer: Manpower, administrative. Takes notes during Senior Staff meetings. Provides ideas and opinions.


Squadron 2:
Squadron Commander: Follows up on supposed operations of squadron, conducts reviews on officers ensuring job efficiency.

CIMS Officer: Link to HQ. Works with our Chief Master Sergeant Instructor.

Inspector General: Manages uniform grades for each flight, and is supposed to conduct an "IG Inspection" every three weeks, where this officer gets out of class and inspects the cadet's uniforms.

Personnel Officer: Collects and organizes personnel information, such as E2C, uniform agreements, etc.

Logistics Officer: Runs our back room, conducts inventory, manages logistics NCOs

Kitty Hawk Officer: Is supposed to conduct Kitty Hawk Meetings and supervise everything that KHAS is supposed to do.

Aerospace Officer: Runs the Aerospace Club and conducts meetings. Responsible for supposed rocket flights, etc.

Public Affairs Officer: Contacts charity organizations, speaks with school, etc.

Mission Support Officer: Ensures all materials are present at ROTC functions, provides manpower.

Seems I left Mission Support off of my first list to begin with, sorry.


These are brief descriptions, not too brief I hope. At least half of my second Squadron does not accomplish what it should, moreso because of the people in the positions I think.

[TruBlu]

I like what you've got here, but I do suggest consolidating a little. Don't have two Deputy Groups Commanders when in reality you only 'need' one. Remove the Operations officer and put those duties under the Deputy Group Commander so he/she has something to do everyday (besides 'assuming command' in the absence of the Group Commander). Take CIMS officer and combine it with Personnel, but take the uniform section to Logistics. Remove any club officers if the club isn't active. Another option is to take your clubs and place them under one officer; call it the Activities Officer or something like that. Also, add more duties for you IG, ie: have him/her responsible for making sure the entire corps is inspection ready (for every three year inspection cycle).

That's what I would suggest. It cuts down on a few jobs that aren't really needed, or could be done in another capacity, and frees up a few 'better' people for the remaining positions.

[Tollin]

I like what you've got here, but I do suggest consolidating a little. Don't have two Deputy Groups Commanders when in reality you only 'need' one. Remove the Operations officer and put those duties under the Deputy Group Commander so he/she has something to do everyday (besides 'assuming command' in the absence of the Group Commander). Take CIMS officer and combine it with Personnel, but take the uniform section to Logistics. Remove any club officers if the club isn't active. Another option is to take your clubs and place them under one officer; call it the Activities Officer or something like that. Also, add more duties for you IG, ie: have him/her responsible for making sure the entire corps is inspection ready (for every three year inspection cycle).

That's what I would suggest. It cuts down on a few jobs that aren't really needed, or could be done in another capacity, and frees up a few 'better' people for the remaining positions.

TruBlu, while I'll say I completely agree with most of what you've said, my instructor would not. He would definitely not approve removing members of senior staff, and I just had a run-in with him about having two Deputies to begin with, he wants them, I do not. Combining CIMS and personnel is a good idea, I will have to run it through my ASI since he works with CIMS.

Combining Aerospace and Kitty Hawk is probably not a good idea. The two go down seperate roads of separate interests, it would be hard to find someone willing to do both without favoring one over the other. Like I said, I do not have much of a selection as far as cadets go.

We are getting inspected next year, and to be honest, I do not know if we will pass it. Is there a reg?

[TruBlu]

We are getting inspected next year, and to be honest, I do not know if we will pass it. Is there a reg?

A 'reg' on what?

[darthrebelpenguin]

I can't really offer much legitmate advice, other than how our own (very succesful) chain of command.

Group Commander- Same as your own
Vice Group Commander- Serves as the third person perspective on everything group does. We seem to have a much more involved vice (or depity) than you do.
Inspector General- Same as yours
Command Chief- Commands all enlisted personell, serves as that link between C/NCO's and C/Officers.
Mission Support Squadron Commander- Basically in charge of all the administrative departments. Personel, Information Management, KHAS, Public Affairs and Training.
Mission Support Squadron Superintendant(ME)- Supervises moral, well being and progress of all the aforementioned departments.
Operations Squadron Commander- Drill Teams
Operations Squadron First Sgt- Self explanitory

Looking at this, you can see you guys have too much going on as far as upper staff goes. This system allows each of the two squadrons to hold EXTREMELY effective weekly meetings. Communication is excellent, and to be frank, stuff gets done PDQ.

[Stryfe]

A 'reg' on what?

I think what he means is, is there a set regulation of things in order to pass a unit inspection. I could be wrong though.

[Tollin]

I think what he means is, is there a set regulation of things in order to pass a unit inspection. I could be wrong though.

Correct Stryfe. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough.

[Stryfe]

Correct Stryfe. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough.

It's not a problem. I think you could have made your point clearer by using "Requirements" instead of "Regulations".

[TruBlu]

2.7. Unit Assessments. The Air Force is required by Department of Defense Instruction 1205.13 to annually evaluate the operation, administration, and effectiveness of the overall AFJROTC program and the individual units for contractual compliance, cost, and performance. All units will conduct an annual internal assessment every year they do not receive an external assessment. Units may receive a HQ AFJROTC Staff Assistance Visit (SAV) or HQ AFJROTC graded Unit Evaluation (UE). The AFJROTC instructor or principal may request an assessment outside the cycle if they believe the unit requires HQ intervention.

That's what I can find on documentation. Don't sweat it man, your corps is probably in better shape than most of ours, judging by one of those ribbons you wear. If you find any reports or requirements (I haven't been able to), post them up, could be interesting.

[Stryfe]

That's what I can find on documentation. Don't sweat it man, your corps is probably in better shape than most of ours, judging by one of those ribbons you wear. If you find any reports or requirements (I haven't been able to), post them up, could be interesting.

I'll talk to my ASI about requirements for Unit Inspections tomorrow, I'll post if I can find anything.

[Tollin]

I appreciate all of the help guys. I've put forth a lot of comments that you all have made to my SASI and he's been unusually agreeable.

One large thing we've decided to change is to have a staff meeting every week, instead of confining senior staff to itself. It has seemed to alienate the rest of the staff, not good.

If you find those *requirements* (thanks haha) I'd appreciate it. I'll ask my ASI tomorrow if he's got anything on it.

[Stryfe]

I appreciate all of the help guys. I've put forth a lot of comments that you all have made to my SASI and he's been unusually agreeable.

One large thing we've decided to change is to have a staff meeting every week, instead of confining senior staff to itself. It has seemed to alienate the rest of the staff, not good.

If you find those *requirements* (thanks haha) I'd appreciate it. I'll ask my ASI tomorrow if he's got anything on it.

Wasn't my ASI's teaching day today, as well as a half-day, so I'll have to ask him tomorrow for those requirements.

I also like what you said about having staff meetings every week. That's what we just recently started doing, and it's worked out great so far.

[Tollin]

I'm glad to hear that it works, recently we've had to experiment with a few things to see how it plays out since none of it had been established before in our unit. It was a major problem for us since everything was left up to the 4-5 people on senior staff to get everything done, and so we did not have the input from the rest of the corps.

[StormCrow]

Why don't you have a Drill Team? Drill Teams are a great way to engage cadets, because they get to go on field trips, and you as the commander can create connections with other commanders and shoot off ideas. You might learn something beneficial enough to help you improve your unit indefinitely. I strongly urge you to put a Drill Team together, even for just a few events. Money can be raised, cadets can be trained, but opportunity doesn't wait, my friend...

Storm

[CaliCadet]

I have some problems with the structure of my unit as well. I am one of the cadets that could be chosen for Group Commander next year but my unit is in a downward spiral as well. We recruit from the local middle schools and jr. highs, and we talk to students in school. Our numbers coming in to my unit get shorter every year. I know the fact of us not offering PE credit has some effect on our recruitment but its bad. We have barely have enough seniors to fill in the Group Staff positions. Last year we had a flight with only 5 cadets in it. If you have any advice, it would be greatly appreciated.

[TruBlu]

I have some problems with the structure of my unit as well. I am one of the cadets that could be chosen for Group Commander next year but my unit is in a downward spiral as well. We recruit from the local middle schools and jr. highs, and we talk to students in school. Our numbers coming in to my unit get shorter every year. I know the fact of us not offering PE credit has some effect on our recruitment but its bad. We have barely have enough seniors to fill in the Group Staff positions. Last year we had a flight with only 5 cadets in it. If you have any advice, it would be greatly appreciated.

Read these threads (below) and then re-post a new thread if necessary and you would like some help. Just try to be as detailed as possible and I'm sure we can help you out in at least one way.

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/showthread.php?t=102
http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/showthread.php?t=223
http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/showthread.php?t=753