AFIT student suggests shorter run, dumbbells

[JohnP]

AFIT student suggests shorter run, dumbbells

By Michael Hoffman - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Apr 14, 2009 21:05:53 EDT

Ditch the 32-inch waist and measure combat fitness. Make airmen run a half-mile, lift a 30-pound dumbbell and do as many pushups as they can, and Capt. Thomas Worden thinks the Air Force will have a better idea of just what shape it’s in to fight.
Worden started thinking about combat readiness on assignment in Afghanistan. He didn’t care whether the airmen piling into his convoy had 32-inch waists. He just wanted to know they could run for cover if the Taliban started shooting.
Too many times Worden didn’t find many airmen up to the task and worried that the Air Force’s fitness test was part of the reason.
When Worden returned in April 2007 from his yearlong deployment with an Afghan provincial reconstruction team, the civil engineer went off to the Air Force Institute of Technology, the service’s graduate school of engineering and management, where he set out to come up with a test to accurately measure an airman’s combat fitness.
What Worden discovered was that the Air Force’s physical fitness test does a good job of predicting who might have high medical bills in 20 years but fails miserably at weeding out who can’t hack it on the battlefield.
So Worden had 86 airmen take the Air Force’s PT test and do nine activities that the Marine Corps and Army use to test fitness.
The activities — six from the Army, three from the Marine Corps — included the half-mile, mile and 1.5-mile runs; pushups; sit-ups; 30-pound dumbbell lift; standing long jump; power squat; shuttle run; and fireman’s carry.
Worden then crunched the numbers. He found that the half-mile run, 30-pound dumbbell lift and pushups did the best job of determining an airman’s combat fitness.
The Air Force’s PT test, on the other hand, was accurate 23 percent of the time. The pushup and sit-up portions did the best job of testing fitness, but the waist measurement didn’t give much of an indication. In fact, the airmen who failed the most combat fitness activities had small waists.
“Instead of penalizing those with larger waists via point deductions, the Air Force should consider either removing these measurements altogether or else require those with smaller waists to ensure that they are in fact strong enough to carry out normal combat tasks,” Worden wrote in his report.
The study came out in March as Air Force leaders were discussing major changes to the service’s fitness program. Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz has said he expects the changes to be announced this summer.
Although Worden said he thinks more research is needed, he also said he is convinced the Air Force — like the Marine Corps — must include combat fitness in its fitness program.
“The most important thing is that our test measures how capable you are in combat,” he said. “That’s great if you are skinny and look great in a uniform, but the question when I go out there is: Are you who I want sitting next to me in my truck?”

Finally someone who is looking at the total picture. :blueberet:

I find it tough to believe that a 32 inch waist was a requirement. If that was the case, the Air Force would have booted me out before my 1st enlistment was up. Since I was 21, I’ve had a 36 inch waist; now top that with a 46 to 48 inch chest and a 325 pound bench press and a 5.25 minute per mile run at 5 miles.

One of my good friends at Bragg was the 3rd strongest man in the military from 1983 to 1989. He was short, squat and powerful and to top it off a black belt. He led PT 3 days a week and passed the AFQT. He consistently scored 300 in the Army’s PT tests, yet he didn’t have a 32 inch waist. I dare anyone to state that he didn’t look good in his uniform.

The Air Force is constantly looking for ways to fit everyone into the same mold. It is time to look at our sister services methods and get the best ideas. We need to start at boot camp. I was TDY to San Diego in mid-1990 and had the privilege of eating at the MCRD. I witnessed the best methods of indoctrination for new recruits. I believe in the standard that everyone is a rifleman 1st and a specialist 2nd. In today’s flexible battlefield and especially in Iraq, where there is no front line, you need to depend upon the troop next to you. You need to know that person is trained to use the weapon and trained to react to the situation.

Good for you, Capt. Thomas Worden. I hope you ideas are used!

[CAPSmith]

I find it tough to believe that a 32 inch waist was a requirement. If that was the case, the Air Force would have booted me out before my 1st enlistment was up.

John, the 32 inch waist measurement is what gets you the maximum number of points for that portion of the AFPFT. If you have a 34 inch waist you lose a few points.

[HairyEyeball]

It may be a step in the right direction - and John, 'the tale of the tape' is spoken with a forked tongue anyway - but let's look at a few practical points: I don't care how fast you can run, whether it's a half mile or three miles - you're not going to outrun a bullet. You are highly unlikely to encounter a 20-foot wall with a convenient rope hanging from it on any battlefield you're likely to fight on. We didn't in Nam, we didn't in Kuwait, we didn't in Afghanistan nor Iraq. And if we did, we would either go around it or reduce it to rubble (along with any defenders cowering behind it). You will not win a pushup or sit-up competition with an armed enemy - you will either shoot him, or he will shoot you.

I am in favor of making all services pass a 'combat readiness course' - as John points out, the days of any distinction between 'front-line' troops and those 'in the rear with the gear' are fond memories from a bygone day: You are either a 'warrior' or you might as well be a civilian. The training you're tested on should reflect what your life - and every other life in your unit - will depend on in combat, should be practical and 'real-world' applicable, and should be 'scored' on 'survival' points, not 'style' points.

Whether your waist measures some office pogue's 'ideal' is as relevant as your mother's maiden name: Do you look 'squared away' in your uniform, or do you look like a sock full of rocks? Can you pass a practical 'combat fitness' course - both physically and mentally? If yes, then what's the problem? If not, you are the problem.

[JohnP]

John, the 32 inch waist measurement is what gets you the maximum number of points for that portion of the AFPFT. If you have a 34 inch waist you lose a few points.

What you're telling me is that because I wasn't as thin as a pencil, I would never be able to max out the AFQT?

That has to be the dumbest concept I ever heard. Why don't we genetically test all personnel? Let’s all live in a world like Gattaca, where children of the middle and upper classes are selected through pre-implantation genetic diagnosis to ensure they possess the best hereditary traits of their parents.

This idea is as dumb as the bicycle test in the 1990’s. You’re hooked up to a breathing machine and told to ride a stationary bike. If your heart and breathing is sustained at a set standard then you pass; if not you fail. I witnessed a marathon running, Wing Commander fail; while his overweight clerk passed. He couldn’t get his heart rate up and it took only seconds for her to get there and maintain it. (She slowed down her pedaling when she became tired.)

It’s a wonder how we get ourselves in these predicaments.

Of course, Hairy and I are answering at the same time again. Your points are valid and true.

The next question should be, should we combine our basic training and make everyone maintain a higher standard?

[HairyEyeball]

Should we continue our basic training? Of course. Should we raise the standard back to pre-Vietnam expectations? Of course - lives depend on it. Should all basic training be 'standardized'? Not necessarily, we're not all going to be Marine Recon - but we should demand that every individual completing basic training has the physical fitness and elementary 'survival skills' demanded by today's 'battlefield', and that a minimum standard is regularly tested for and met: Failure is not an option here, either. I don't care if you're a boot E-1 (or O-1) at your first duty station or a seasoned senior SNCO or crusty old Colonel - if you don't meet the requirements the first time, there will be a penalty, and it will be severe enough to matter. If you come up short on a retest, the penalty increases...and you will continue 'practicing' - on your time - and retesting, and incurring penalties, until you do pass.

The unfortunate first rule of war is that good people die. That is unequivocal. The fact that some die because they are unfit, or because the next man who should have been 'covering' was unfit, is unacceptable.

[JohnP]

That is unequivocal. The fact that some die because they are unfit, or because the next man who should have been 'covering' was unfit, is unacceptable.

The primary out brief was that training in combat arms was required at all levels.

This is a glaring example of how the 4 hours in Air Force Basic Training does not train you in anything. Air Force Basic is 6 weeks long with weekends and holidays off. There is an introduction into the basics of Air Force life, history, uniforms, dress and ceremony. This is not military training. This is also not the 1st time in Air Force history that lack of training has left a black eye on the system.

At Kimpo Airbase in 1951, the base was overrun by Chi-Com forces, the aircraft were the only things to escape leaving all base personnel to fend for themselves. No one was left alive. The surviving men were taken to the hangers and hung on meat hooks. When the base was recaptured they found weapons with the bullets put in backwards; unused machine guns and grenades; the Air Police (forerunners to the Security Forces) were only trained to use rifles and pistols and were not trained on heavy weapons. The rest of the personnel hadn’t even seen a rifle unless they were prior service in the regular Army. I’m not saying that having them all trained as riflemen would have stopped the base from being overrun but it would’ve sent more Chi-com soldiers to Hell.

During the Tet Offensive of 1968, the United States Air Force 377th Security Police Squadron at Ton Son Nhut Air Base in Viet Nam was in danger. Four USAF Security Policemen lost their lives at Bunker 051. The Security Police, despite being outnumbered, with help from the United States Army Helicopter and ground units, killed nearly 1000 enemy combatants. These troops had special training prior to going overseas. Supplemental troops could’ve been ‘recruited’ had the maintenance units been trained to be riflemen 1st.

I agree that we shouldn’t have to bring the standards up to that of Marine Recon or Army Rangers, but basic combat training with a graduation exercise similar to the Crucible should be the standard.

[DaveIn3D]

The Air Force is still just looking for a quick fix. You can have whatever PT test you desire. You can have every exercise in the book on it. The fact of the matter is that without a good DAILY pt regimen, you are only getting troops training for the test, not being fit year round.

Take the Marines for example. 3 miles, 20 pullups and 100 crunches is the PFT. Anyone can start training for that just one month out and do good on it. Unlike other branches, the Marines dont use the test to show how fit the troops are. We use the test as a baseline. It is the minimum standard. We routinely run 5 miles a day and do the Marine Corps daily 16 that would make hercules pass-out. It can be easily bragged that the Marines PFT is harder than any other branch. To us it's cake compared to what we do everyday.

If you want to look at it another way...the "new" Air Force PT test is only a basic level crossfit course. My pregnant wife puts more effort into getting out of bed every morning than any Airman doing this test. The Air Force needs to get out of dunkins, dump the starbucks and hit the pavement. Nuff said.

-3D

[JohnP]

The Air Force is still just looking for a quick fix.... The Air Force needs to get out of dunkins, dump the starbucks and hit the pavement. Nuff said.

-3D

This sums the Air Force's Warrior problem and fix up in 2 quick sentences.

[Warsong]

It can be easily bragged that the Marines PFT is harder than any other branch.
-3D

Then you never went to Ranger Indoc.

All that aside, John, the normal Army APFT doesn't do much either...which is why we put on our IOTVs and walked up and down the mountains here in Afghanaland until we got acclimated...then kept doing it.

I'm not the smartest Joe jumping out of a plane, but I really don't see much beyond what RIP did that actually improved me, even in the Infantry. Yeah, we run forever, do fireman carries up hills and there are days I can barely walk afterwards, but running around in a PT uniform didn't prepare me physically for this.

Something else I learned through the Army was that a person's physical shape wasn't always a perfect indicator of how they'd do, it will also come to motivation. I've already had a mechanic and a supply clerk boast that they wanted to be Infantry after being with us for short while and then getting broke off as soon as, in the words of my platoon sergeant "Everything that looks cool in commercials actually sucks to do" they learned what it was like to be wet and cold.

I'm not really implying spraying people with hoses and making them low crawl through mud to be an accurate test of their physical and mental conditioning, but I'm going to go ahead and say doing anything in a PT shirt and shorts with running shoes from Nike isn't really prepping you for the real deal, either.

[DaveIn3D]

Then you never went to Ranger Indoc.

I'm not really implying spraying people with hoses and making them low crawl through mud to be an accurate test of their physical and mental conditioning, but I'm going to go ahead and say doing anything in a PT shirt and shorts with running shoes from Nike isn't really prepping you for the real deal, either.

Your right. I have never been to RIP, BUD/S, Recon or the Q-course. But I'll leave those sleeping tigers lie because I am pretty sure those guys get their daily PT. For the regular forces, the Marines got it.

The gunclub is currently doing something more of a real-life fitness test these days. We still have the old PFT but now you ahve to do the CFT (combat fitness test) also. There is boots and utes running, buddy carries, low-crawling and if it happens to be raining that day, water and mud. Personally I would like to see the test include rifles and a range immediatly following but there are POGs out there who would probably shoot someone if they had to exert any energy before they fire their rifle....

I wonder if any of the A.F. spec ops guys are laughing at this attempt by the A.F. to make itself seem "warrior-like." I say have all A.F. enlistees either go to Parris island or FT. Benning for boot. Upon graduation of REAL military training, they get to go to lackland for their Blue suit "not quite civilian but not really military" training...

-3D

[Spider]

Take the Marines for example. 3 miles, 20 pullups and 100 crunches is the PFT. Anyone can start training for that just one month out and do good on it. Unlike other branches, the Marines dont use the test to show how fit the troops are. We use the test as a baseline. It is the minimum standard. We routinely run 5 miles a day and do the Marine Corps daily 16 that would make hercules pass-out. It can be easily bragged that the Marines PFT is harder than any other branch. To us it's cake compared to what we do everyday.

What is the daily sixteen? Is it a circuit? I've looked and it can't find exactly what you would do just that you do eight stretches and eight bodyweight exercises.

Then you never went to Ranger Indoc.

All that aside, John, the normal Army APFT doesn't do much either...which is why we put on our IOTVs and walked up and down the mountains here in Afghanaland until we got acclimated...then kept doing it.

I'm not the smartest Joe jumping out of a plane, but I really don't see much beyond what RIP did that actually improved me, even in the Infantry. Yeah, we run forever, do fireman carries up hills and there are days I can barely walk afterwards, but running around in a PT uniform didn't prepare me physically for this.

Something else I learned through the Army was that a person's physical shape wasn't always a perfect indicator of how they'd do, it will also come to motivation. I've already had a mechanic and a supply clerk boast that they wanted to be Infantry after being with us for short while and then getting broke off as soon as, in the words of my platoon sergeant "Everything that looks cool in commercials actually sucks to do" they learned what it was like to be wet and cold.

Indeed it partly depends on who you are... "God help me I love it so" etcetera.


I'm not really implying spraying people with hoses and making them low crawl through mud to be an accurate test of their physical and mental conditioning, but I'm going to go ahead and say doing anything in a PT shirt and shorts with running shoes from Nike isn't really prepping you for the real deal, either.

Maybe if everyone was an agricultural labourer it would be possible for them to jump straight into marching everywhere looking like tortoises but taking people off the street and expecting them to exhibit a good standard of military fitness is silly.

If you can't run for six miles unladen then you probably can't cover the same distance at a fast marching pace while laden. However it can't be denied that the kind of physique that makes for an exceptional runner is not the physique that cracks the same distance while carrying a load in an exceptional time. As the old saying goes most marathon runners 'couldn't do it with a bergen on'.


The gunclub is currently doing something more of a real-life fitness test these days. We still have the old PFT but now you ahve to do the CFT (combat fitness test) also. There is boots and utes running, buddy carries, low-crawling and if it happens to be raining that day, water and mud. Personally I would like to see the test include rifles and a range immediatly following but there are POGs out there who would probably shoot someone if they had to exert any energy before they fire their rifle....


March and shoot contests not big where you are then?

[DaveIn3D]

There are a couple different ways to do the daily 16s. Some do the 8 and 8. My unit does the stretching first, then 16 bodyweight exercises. We got a myriad of exercises to choose from. Monkey-f*ckers, squats, leg lifts, flutter kicks, one leg squats, mountain-climbers, crunches, hello dollies, wide-arm pushups, regular pushups, close grip pushups (triceps), dive bombers, 10 count body-builders, squat-thrusts, buddy squats (personal favorite) buddy crunches, buddy low crawls (boot and utes "combat conditioning" pt), cross leg crunches, jumping jacks, lunges,...etc..you can go on forever (and I am sure Hairy has stood on the quarterdeck before improvising more "exercises"). Who ever is running pt gets to pick. Sometimes we only make it through 8 or 9 before someone pukes up the beer from the night before or we are running out of time and we still need to get an easy 5 in.

And all of that is just 5 times a week for some little arty btry. I dont even want to imagine what the grunts get to do for pt.

-3D

[Spider]

There are a couple different ways to do the daily 16s. Some do the 8 and 8. My unit does the stretching first, then 16 bodyweight exercises. We got a myriad of exercises to choose from. Monkey-f*ckers, squats, leg lifts, flutter kicks, one leg squats, mountain-climbers, crunches, hello dollies, wide-arm pushups, regular pushups, close grip pushups (triceps), dive bombers, 10 count body-builders, squat-thrusts, buddy squats (personal favorite) buddy crunches, buddy low crawls (boot and utes "combat conditioning" pt), cross leg crunches, jumping jacks, lunges,...etc..you can go on forever (and I am sure Hairy has stood on the quarterdeck before improvising more "exercises"). Who ever is running pt gets to pick. Sometimes we only make it through 8 or 9 before someone pukes up the beer from the night before or we are running out of time and we still need to get an easy 5 in.

And all of that is just 5 times a week for some little arty btry. I dont even want to imagine what the grunts get to do for pt.

-3D

Well until recently I'd have told you sitting in/outside a pub in St Johns Wood wearing chad t-shirts and drinking piss-weak session bitter. MCSF Coy London... Protecting f**k all from the square root of f**k all. :devil:

http://sgtjohnbradley.photos.military.com/photos/176109223_EFDXv-M.jpg

Almost as kushty as the Peking Legation was in 1899!

[JohnP]

I wonder if any of the A.F. spec ops guys are laughing at this attempt by the A.F. to make itself seem "warrior-like."

We did.

I say have all A.F. enlistees either go to Parris island or FT. Benning for boot. Upon graduation of REAL military training, they get to go to lackland for their Blue suit "not quite civilian but not really military" training....
-3D

This would not be a new concept for the Air Force. A long time ago, the Combat Control Teams had a training pipeline to include jump school, survival school, scuba school and then final training; Pararescue had a training pipeline that included jump school, survival school, scuba school and then final training. Both AFSC’s were under (then) MAC. Someone in headquarters thought, “Why don’t we combine the training and eliminate the duplication of effort.” There was some resistance and many of us thought that the PJ’s were going to have to lower their standards in order to keep the numbers up for the CCT. We were wrong. CCT stepped up to the standards. The result is streamlined training until the final qualifications in their own career field.

This is similar to the concept of sending AF trainees to the USMC MCRD for the 1st 6 weeks of training. There they would get the discipline, drill, combat training and physical fitness basics so very necessary for this modern age. After earning their fledgling wings, they would then go to Air Force Indoctrination training to learn the office part of being a zoomie.

But then again, this is just my opinion. If anyone would actually put some of my ideas into action, I would be worried.

[JohnP]

Well until recently I'd have told you sitting in/outside a pub in St Johns Wood wearing chad t-shirts and drinking piss-weak session bitter. MCSF Coy London... Protecting f**k all from the square root of f**k all. :devil:


Almost as kushty as the Peking Legation was in 1899!

Nice place, it's a little crowed for my taste. If you can see your neighbor, beware; that means he can see you and you're in his scope!

We have a nice micro-brewery here though. A German biermeister moved here several years ago and set up. It's the 1st stop when visitors come to town.

[wukong]

This sums the Air Force's Warrior problem and fix up in 2 quick sentences.

The Air Force PT program will always be a compromise. In the 70's we were told by our flight surgeons that excessive running was not good for us due to the fact that any program that resulted in a lower blood pressure would reduce our G tolerance. They recommended that we do more isometric type exercises that increased our strength vs lowering blood pressure. I guess one has to ask the question, fitness to do what?

Most Air Force personnel will never be asked to carry an infantry combat load 15 miles then assault a fortified position. They should be able to carry a combat load to the base perimeter and be able to function in a defensive capacity.

I do feel that the liaison assignments that I had with the Army and Marines did require different physical conditioning standards than that required for either a pilot or command post cushion polisher.

[DaveIn3D]

Wu,

We all know that the Air Force does not have the same requirements for fitness as the other branches. Then agin, the majority of the Air Force is not pilots nor people who routinely fly in planes. Someone out there believes the Air Force needs a fitness program. My argument is why half-ass it? If the Air Force doesnt want to be fit the right way, then why pretend?

Also, the fittest people i saw during my prior enlistment were the pilots. They were always running and working out at the gym. Have the requirements changed?

-3D

[JohnP]

Wu,

We all know that the Air Force does not have the same requirements for fitness as the other branches. Then agin, the majority of the Air Force is not pilots nor people who routinely fly in planes. Someone out there believes the Air Force needs a fitness program. My argument is why half-ass it? If the Air Force doesnt want to be fit the right way, then why pretend?

This is the Sixty-four thousand dollar question. From what I read in the article at the beginning of this thread, the Air Force wants to change the testing methods but not the methods to maintain fitness. The physical fitness program with the Air Force is an abysmal failure. They believe that if they provide the facilities they airmen will take it upon themselves to go to them to train. This involves mental discipline; this mental discipline is not ingrained into the mind of airmen in Basic training. It is not taught during their Technical Training (Unless you one of the future Spec-Ops units). They rely on the intestinal fortitude and internal drive of every airman to complete their own training to maintain standards. Build it and they will come, is not the way to run a fitness program. They build clubs for the airmen, NCOs and officers to relax after work. I’ve seen more people in the clubs, after work than I ever saw at the gym working out.


Also, the fittest people i saw during my prior enlistment were the pilots. They were always running and working out at the gym. Have the requirements changed?

-3D

The requirements haven’t changed. They still fall under the same regulations and guidelines as before. However, the reason you saw more pilots in the gym than airmen is because most officers were ingrained (either in the Academies or ROTC) with the discipline to lead from the front. In addition, the Air Force Class 1 Flight Physical is a bear to pass if you are not fit.

The Air Force PT program will always be a compromise…. I guess one has to ask the question, fitness to do what?

Most Air Force personnel will never be asked to carry an infantry combat load 15 miles then assault a fortified position. They should be able to carry a combat load to the base perimeter and be able to function in a defensive capacity.

I do feel that the liaison assignments that I had with the Army and Marines did require different physical conditioning standards than that required for either a pilot or command post cushion polisher.

We are in accord with the current standards. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it is the current flux of the battle field that is getting the recognition. If you’ve ever been to the 2 way rifle range and you want to survive, you have to be in shape. It doesn’t matter if you’re being ordered to convoy duty or ordered to run to the perimeter to assist the Security Forces in holding back the line, you are going to run, crawl and fight! If you are not physically fit, you are going to die or worse get someone else killed.

[wukong]

Wu,

We all know that the Air Force does not have the same requirements for fitness as the other branches. Then again, the majority of the Air Force is not pilots nor people who routinely fly in planes. Someone out there believes the Air Force needs a fitness program. My argument is why half-ass it? If the Air Force doesn't want to be fit the right way, then why pretend?

Also, the fittest people i saw during my prior enlistment were the pilots. They were always running and working out at the gym. Have the requirements changed?

-3D

My experience has been that AF personnel have always performed up to personal standards with the AF standard as the minimum. When I was preparing for Parachute training, I took PT with the CCT at Clark AB. To be honest, they easily ran my young ass into the ground. Afterwords I continued in physical maintenance and Ole What's Her Name and I would run 3-5 miles in the evening.

I have no idea of the PT routine of the PJ's. The CCT at Clark did PT as a group 3X a week. The other AF unit that I often visited when assigned to the Liaison billet at Camp Courtney was the 8th Mobile Aerial Port Squadron at Clark AB. This unit had a detachment of Marines from the 3d Aerial Delivery Platoon assigned and would PT as a group as well as do weapons training. For those who are unaware of MAPS, this unit provides port services at forward airfields and there was a small detachment from 8MAPS at Khe Sanh. The CG 3FSSG would visit these Marines and PT with them. These Marines were very beneficial to 8MAPS from a combat readiness stand point especially with weapons training.

From my personal experience I certainly agree that AF personnel are not combat ready for todays battlefield nor were we combat ready for yesterdays battle. When assigned to Clark AB in the early 80s I was a member of the Airlift Control Element (ALCE). An ALCE (or what ever the AF calls it today) is the advance command element at forward airfields that arrives just behind the Rangers, Airborne Assault troops or Marine assault forces that capture a forward air landing zone. During this time I was never required to run the AF 1.5 miles for time, never fired a pistol or rifle and never was tested on my or the units ability to integrate with an Army, Marine, or Navy unit in a combat scenario. The unit had exceptionally qualified personnel in their technical specialties but some could not have run across the room to fetch a cold beer. Unlike the Seabees, Airlift forward units are never required to defend in a combat exercise with the units undergoing an EDRE or other combat mobilization scenario. I think it is very reasonable to expect that a forward airfield can and will be attacked (ie Khe Sanh, Kam Duc) and that AF personnel will be required to not only defend the facility but in a scenario such as the Chosin Reservoir my have to travel overland for some distance with Army or Marine ground combat forces for evacuation. Aircrew personnel are attuned to physical conditioning because every time we strap a hunk of aluminum to our ass we know we may have to give it back to the taxpayer in a slightly used condition. We do like to ride, but are prepared to walk.


The AF spends a good deal of money in personnel and equipment cost in providing ALCEs to train users (Army, Marines, Navy) to mobilize with airlift. Perhaps our users should be tasked to provide the weapons trainers to train those AF units that either augment or could come under other services combat elements. There is no free lunch but I'm sure (tongue in cheek) that the other services have enough "fat" to provide this service.

What ever AF physical standard evolves, it will probably always be an individual requirement to train to those standards.