Civil Air Patrol Senior Member NCO Program

[PaulR]

I know that this is not a cadet topic, but I cannot find a more appropriate place on this forum for this thread. If there is an allocated section, please move this thread...

I participated as a Cadet in the CAP from 1986-1991. I was able to get my Mitchell Award before joining the US Marine Corps in late 1990. I have recently considered rejoining as a senior member and started reading pertinent articles on line. I found an article that stated that the CAP started a senior member NCO program. I am very interested in this aspect of membership. I am eligible to come in as a 2nd LT because of my Mitchell Award, but as an old NCO in the military(Getting ready to tack on E7), the thought of wearing an officer ranking sends chills up my spine:p Also, I want the cadets to see that not all successful and respectable military personnel have officer's insignia.

Can someone please give me some info on this program? How are these NCOs seen by their fellow CAP senior members? Do CAP "officers" tend to play the "mine rank is bigger than yours" game(silly question, I know... but I have seen some odd things before).


Paul

[PaulR]

Anyone? :o

[armysc_25b]

CAPSmith would probably be able to best help you. Suggest you PM him.

[Delta Charlie]

Rank in CAP means almost nothing beyond the Cadet Program in CAP. Squadrons can be commanded by 2nd Lts with Lt Cols working under them.

As a cadet, I have much more initial respect for CAP NCOs, because it is an instant indicator of previous (or current) military service.

The program is severely underdeveloped, unfortunately. There is no program in place for NCOs to promote, or follow the normal PD program that officers do. I beleve that they are working on solving those issues though.

Many find it 'easier' to just go the officer route, there are less than 100 NCOs, out of the nearly 30,000 SMs. Ultimately, it is up to you, but I, and many other cadets I know, have nothing but respect for the NCOs we know.

[rightstuffpilot]

Although I do agree with Delta Charlie that the CAP NCO program is nearly dead, I do not agree that rank has no bearing. Rank is important in the Civil Air Patrol program.

You will never see anyone lower than the rank of Col on NEC or NB, except it a few temporary circumstances such as a Proxy. I guess I would more so venture to say that ranks major and below are less important. Some squadrons/wings may care about rank. It mostly depends on where you are, how big the program is,and what you do for yourself.

All Wing and Region Commanders hold the grade/or temporary grade of atleast Col. Lt Col is the highest a Senior Member can achieve without being a past or present wing commander. Bar in mind there are a few special situations and special promotions that could negate this. But in general, the Col's are still at the top and the 2d Lt's are still at the bottom.

[PaulR]

Thanks for all the input. I do appreciate it.

When you say that the Senior NCO program is almost dead, are you saying that they are trying to get rid of it again?

[rightstuffpilot]

Nope, knowone is trying to get rid of it. Its just that few people choose to be in the CAP NCO program. I have met 1 or 2 CAP NCO's in my span of over 5 years in the cadet program--heavily participating in national activities, encampments, and attending 3 different squadrons in 3 different wings.

[CAPSmith]

Paul,

I sent a PM to you regarding your question. However, just for a more public answer...

The CAP NCO program is existant, but not really. There are CAP NCOs, but as stated earlier, they are few and far between. CAP doesn't have a progression program for NCOs (ie no promotions) and their role isn't defined.

CAP NCOs are essentially the same as CAP Officers with exception to the insignia they wear on their uniforms. They can hold the same positions, do the same jobs and take the same courses.

In the last few years there has been efforts to "re-establish" a CAP NCO program which would include a progression track for anyone that chose to enter it, but there hasn't been much from it yet. Our previous National Commander filled a position of "Chief Master Sergeant of CAP" but the position didn't have a defined role and even if used there would only be a handful of NCOs to "supervise."

Ultimately the choice is up to you which path you choose to go down and either way your contributions would be appreciated. Good Luck.

[StormCrow]

Smith,

Since I am looking at joining CAP Senior Member program, what do you think would be better, CAP NCO or Officer, what is the difference in responsibility, and how are they different to get into?

Storm

[CAPSmith]

Smith,

Since I am looking at joining CAP Senior Member program, what do you think would be better, CAP NCO or Officer, what is the difference in responsibility, and how are they different to get into?

Storm

Storm,

(Un)Fortunately for you, there isn't a choice. Currently, to be a CAP NCO you must be/have been a RM NCO. So, you'd have to be an Officer. There isn't any responsibility difference between the two anyway.

Here's the blurb from CAPR 35-5 regarding CAP NCO appointments...


SECTION F:
a. Only those CAP members who are military or ex-military NCOs and do not wish to be considered for CAP officer grades may be appointed to a CAP NCO grade under provisions of this section. The CAP grade granted will be equivalent to the grade held in the active duty military, Reserve, or National Guard.
b. The member must also have completed Level I of the Senior Member Professional Development Program.
6-3. Procedures. Members who meet the eligibility requirement outlined above may assume a CAP NCO grade equivalent to their military grade upon presentation of documentation to the unit commander (a copy of DD Form 214, military identification card, or promotion order showing the grade requested is considered sufficient). The CAPF 2 will be annotated to reflect the NCO grade authorized and forward this form to National Headquarters for recording. Forms may be submitted by e-mail, fax or U.S. Postal Service as outlined in paragraph 1-8c(1) above. The member is authorized to wear the grade on the CAP uniform as soon as verification of the military NCO grade is received.

[PaulR]

Paul,

I sent a PM to you regarding your question. However, just for a more public answer...

The CAP NCO program is existant, but not really. There are CAP NCOs, but as stated earlier, they are few and far between. CAP doesn't have a progression program for NCOs (ie no promotions) and their role isn't defined.

CAP NCOs are essentially the same as CAP Officers with exception to the insignia they wear on their uniforms. They can hold the same positions, do the same jobs and take the same courses.

In the last few years there has been efforts to "re-establish" a CAP NCO program which would include a progression track for anyone that chose to enter it, but there hasn't been much from it yet. Our previous National Commander filled a position of "Chief Master Sergeant of CAP" but the position didn't have a defined role and even if used there would only be a handful of NCOs to "supervise."

Ultimately the choice is up to you which path you choose to go down and either way your contributions would be appreciated. Good Luck.

I have received your PM. I very much value and appreciate your view. It was just what I was looking for. I have not received any of the manuals yet... but... do the rankings have to be the sewn on type or can they be the the shoulder strap slide ons?

Regards
Paul

[CAPSmith]

I have received your PM. I very much value and appreciate your view. It was just what I was looking form. I have not received any of the manuals yet... but... do the rankings have to be the sewn on type or can they be the the shoulder strap slide ons?

Regards
Paul


Paul,

Our uniform manual is CAPM 39-1.

You can find it here: http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082203102943.pdf

All of the uniforms have notes underneath them regarding CAP NCO insignia.

You can do either the sew on (4 in) sew on the sleeve or the "CAP Grey" slide on insignia in the SS Blue shirt. With the service coat it calls for only the sew on (4 in).

On BDUs you would use the sew on again. In each case that you wear the sew on, you'd need to wear the "CAP" collar devices as well.

Hope that helps. Have fun reading :)

[PaulR]

Thank you for the information and the hyperlink to the manual!

[Delta Charlie]

Thank you for the information and the hyperlink to the manual!CAP is taking 'paperless' to the extreme, so getting any hard copy of a manual or reg is very difficult...

You can find all current CAP publications here - www.cap.gov/pubs

Also, beware with M 39-1, it is very out of date. Much of the current uniform regulations can be found in Interim Change Letters, available at the above link.

[rightstuffpilot]

Very might be alittle over stated. There are a few things you'll want to pay particular attention to including BDU hat insignias, Wing Patches, and Name Plates. The general gist is there.