Promotions

[Justify]

My unit just hands out rank. Freshman have been promoted to C/1Lts for being flight commanders, when in the past, you have had to be at least half way through your AS-2 year to make C/2Lt. Am I the only one who thinks this is wrong???

How does everyone else's units handle the promotion system?

[TruBlu]

There are a few threads like this already, I'll point you to them (I suggest looking at all of them):

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/showthread.php?t=128
http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/showthread.php?t=983
http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/showthread.php?t=1079
http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/board/showthread.php?t=223

That should keep you busy for a minute lol.

[Justify]

Ahh... my head hurts from reading that. lol

But from reading that and talking with my SASI/ASI, I'm coming up with a new promotion system for my unit. I'm building off of TruBlu's plans (if you don't mind?)

[TruBlu]

I don't mind, that's why I put them up. The tests have changed a little though; they have been simplified into only 4 categories now: Basic AFJROTC Knowledge (3 tests), Basic Drill Knowledge (3 tests), Civics Knowledge (2 tests), and Basic Military Knowledge (3 tests). I'll send you updated copies if you would like, but I'll have to edit them a little bit to get rid of my unit designation stamped on them lol.

[Justify]

I don't mind, that's why I put them up. The tests have changed a little though; they have been simplified into only 4 categories now: Basic AFJROTC Knowledge (3 tests), Basic Drill Knowledge (3 tests), Civics Knowledge (2 tests), and Basic Military Knowledge (3 tests). I'll send you updated copies if you would like, but I'll have to edit them a little bit to get rid of my unit designation stamped on them lol.

No, it's fine. Go ahead and take your tim; our unit is more focused on our unit goals right now

[TruBlu]

OK I'll take some screen shots and blank out the publication numbers. Just PM me if they don't come within a day or two, 'cause I may forget (the files aren't on my person at the moment).

[Airbourne Infantry]

That's the way it's been at my unit. But honesty, rank is given out like candy. Our Personnel Officer is a first year Cadet (Junior in HS) but is only a C/SSgt. I guess it depends on the individual, but a Freshman Officer is pretty ridiculous. Also, my unit's unarmed drill team members have this weird thing they do with their ranks.
EVERY SINGLE MEMBER who is performing in a competition wears Second Lieutenant ranks except the commander. I find this ridiculous. They say it's to make everyone look the same but when you have Airmen, NCOs, and real Officers promoting and demoting themselves just for appearance, something is very wrong. But that's just the way it is here, EVERYTHING always takes a back seat to the drill teams.

[Psybadek]

Wow that's pretty crazy. If any cadet promoted/demoted themselves for ANY reason they would be hitting the deck and doing some pushing fast. That is wrong that they do it, the instructor should never have allowed that.

To the original poster, I agree that it's wrong, but it's also up to the instructor how he handles promotions. In my unit promotions were handled by staff up to E6, to be promoted to E7 and up you needed a recommendation by a c/officer and then the SNSI or NSI approved it or declined it. But for ranks up to E6 we used tests and basic drill and other things to determine if a promotion was to be earned. I still actually have examples of the tests we used along with requirement cards.

[armysc_25b]

...Also, my unit's unarmed drill team members have this weird thing they do with their ranks.
EVERY SINGLE MEMBER who is performing in a competition wears Second Lieutenant ranks except the commander. I find this ridiculous. They say it's to make everyone look the same...

On my school's Drill Team, until my senior year we used to only wear our rank, nameplate, HUD Star (if the individual cadet had one), and Drill Team cord (again, if the individual cadet had one). The primary purpose there was to "not damage the awards". But we ALWAYS wore our authorized rank. Even my senior year, when I took charge and said we're wearing awards, there were no false awards put on there to pad everyone's appearance. I think that's BS that schools do that to be quite honest with you.

[Remoah]

Drill teams here in Oz just wear thier issued rank.
And that's with Pollie rank chevrons taking up like half the arm

Frankly, i don't think ANYONE is going to care if there is different ranks out there, the general public who come and watch parades most certainly won't.

[Justify]

I agree. My corps had just gone to hell basically. The past three years running (when we had our First Sergeant instead of our new instructors) we've gotten Distinguished Unit with Merits three years in a row, along with all knids of first place trophies. But nooo, apparently we're doing everything wrong and gotta change it and now our corps sucks. I'm surprised we're not shut down already because of the instructors.

[CrewDog]

My old unit used to be the same way. We always made sure we had the best chance at getting the DUA. We always did good at our drill meets. After my senior year, the SASI retired. That left the ASI on his own, until he found out he had cancer. That left no military presence at all. The school system found the old Athletic Director, and the old Building Construction teacher and made them the permanent substitutes. They knew very little about military or the Air Force for that matter. The kids were wearing their blues with not so much as a name tag on their shirts. They were going without haircuts, and just looking like a wanna be militia. The senior leadership didn't do a very good job of enforcing military standards, and let it go. Now their is a Senior Master Sergeant in their acting as the SASI. He's trying to take a unit that now only has fifty some odd cadets and turn it clear around. On top of that they were put on probation. You wanna talk about going downhill?

[Drill for life]

Wow man that is pretty tough, did you have anyone on staff(chain of command) try to step up and fix the problems?

[Justify]

Is it jsut me, or has all of the AFJROTC program gone downhill?

[Psybadek]

To be honest with you I couldn't tell you. The only AFJROTC program that was in my area is still going strong.

[TruBlu]

Across the nation there are less and less students signing up for JROTC as the years go by. I've come to the conclusion that it is because of our military affiliation, and the fact that said military is involved in many provocative conflicts. It's really a matter of lack of education about the program that differs the student body away from it (that and the fact that they have to wear a uniform, God Forbid, once a week). As to the situation of when you are actually in JROTC, you see things that are 'wrong' and try to fix them. Every unit has it's downfalls and every unit has to deal with them. But what's happened over the years, as enrollment rates drop and units become older, is that the unit does not change, just who comes and goes. This was evident when I got into my corps and our 'reg binder' was published three years before with policies that we didn't follow in it. One of the biggest issues in JROTC is the structure and CoC, which usually isn't updated unless hell begins to freeze over. I've seen first hand what happens when a squadron sized unit attempts to fulfill a large group's CoC. It just doesn't work. And the last thing that I'm going to hit on, because I think I'm just starting to ramble, is the lack of motivation from cadets. I noticed this today when we had some international delegates at our school and we (the cadets) were acting as escorts. Many of the students still didn't understand why they should stand at attention, or wear something the proper way, or argued with the commanders who were trying to orchestrate the entire function. People need to want to do something to do it properly, and sadly many students across the nation have taken advantage of a class with a fairly easy curriculum and have basically raped it into submission (graphic but tru). So what does all that mean? We, that is the cadets who wish to see JROTC succeed as what it should be, need to inform and refuse to let naivety bring down the program we so dearly love.

[Justify]

Across the nation there are less and less students signing up for JROTC as the years go by. I've come to the conclusion that it is because of our military affiliation, and the fact that said military is involved in many provocative conflicts. It's really a matter of lack of education about the program that differs the student body away from it (that and the fact that they have to wear a uniform, God Forbid, once a week). As to the situation of when you are actually in JROTC, you see things that are 'wrong' and try to fix them. Every unit has it's downfalls and every unit has to deal with them. But what's happened over the years, as enrollment rates drop and units become older, is that the unit does not change, just who comes and goes. This was evident when I got into my corps and our 'reg binder' was published three years before with policies that we didn't follow in it. One of the biggest issues in JROTC is the structure and CoC, which usually isn't updated unless hell begins to freeze over. I've seen first hand what happens when a squadron sized unit attempts to fulfill a large group's CoC. It just doesn't work. And the last thing that I'm going to hit on, because I think I'm just starting to ramble, is the lack of motivation from cadets. I noticed this today when we had some international delegates at our school and we (the cadets) were acting as escorts. Many of the students still didn't understand why they should stand at attention, or wear something the proper way, or argued with the commanders who were trying to orchestrate the entire function. People need to want to do something to do it properly, and sadly many students across the nation have taken advantage of a class with a fairly easy curriculum and have basically raped it into submission (graphic but tru). So what does all that mean? We, that is the cadets who wish to see JROTC succeed as what it should be, need to inform and refuse to let naivety bring down the program we so dearly love.

Well said.

[Drill for life]

Across the nation there are less and less students signing up for JROTC as the years go by. I've come to the conclusion that it is because of our military affiliation, and the fact that said military is involved in many provocative conflicts. It's really a matter of lack of education about the program that differs the student body away from it (that and the fact that they have to wear a uniform, God Forbid, once a week). As to the situation of when you are actually in JROTC, you see things that are 'wrong' and try to fix them. Every unit has it's downfalls and every unit has to deal with them. But what's happened over the years, as enrollment rates drop and units become older, is that the unit does not change, just who comes and goes. This was evident when I got into my corps and our 'reg binder' was published three years before with policies that we didn't follow in it. One of the biggest issues in JROTC is the structure and CoC, which usually isn't updated unless hell begins to freeze over. I've seen first hand what happens when a squadron sized unit attempts to fulfill a large group's CoC. It just doesn't work. And the last thing that I'm going to hit on, because I think I'm just starting to ramble, is the lack of motivation from cadets. I noticed this today when we had some international delegates at our school and we (the cadets) were acting as escorts. Many of the students still didn't understand why they should stand at attention, or wear something the proper way, or argued with the commanders who were trying to orchestrate the entire function. People need to want to do something to do it properly, and sadly many students across the nation have taken advantage of a class with a fairly easy curriculum and have basically raped it into submission (graphic but tru). So what does all that mean? We, that is the cadets who wish to see JROTC succeed as what it should be, need to inform and refuse to let naivety bring down the program we so dearly love.

Well said, I also see it as instructors just kicking back. In my state we have a lot of JROTC programs and a lot of them don't even resemble a JROTC program.

We as cadets can learn but it is the instructors who teach us. They set up the CoC and if it is wrong they want us to fix it. What the heck I have not been active-duty in the military and don't know one thing about a proper CoC. I don't see it as cadet's need to do this and do that, I see it as instructors need to teach this and teach that.

P.S. Trublu if you add space's when you post a long reply it make's it easier to read ;)

[TruBlu]

P.S. Trublu if you add space's when you post a long reply it make's it easier to read ;)

I didn't think it was all that long. That's what happens when I rant...

[Drill for life]

That's what happens when I rant...

Hahahaha, I noticed how long my post was going to be so I just threw a space in there.

[Stryfe]

My unit just hands out rank. Freshman have been promoted to C/1Lts for being flight commanders, when in the past, you have had to be at least half way through your AS-2 year to make C/2Lt. Am I the only one who thinks this is wrong???

How does everyone else's units handle the promotion system?

This makes me cry. A freshman getting C/1Lt? Just for being flight commander? That makes no sense. In my unit, the highest rank a freshman can get is C/TSgt - and that's only if he/she gets the Outstanding Cadet Ribbion. I was flight commander for my class my freshman first semester, and I got no rank with it.

If your units run like that - meaning your ASI and SASI just hand out stuff, then you should probably have a talk with them. My guess is that your unit might not be that big..and so there is a need for more Officers and NCOs.

Either way, that doesn't sound right and I would talk with your Commander, SASI, or ASI about that.

[TruBlu]

If your units run like that - meaning your ASI and SASI just hand out stuff, then you should probably have a talk with them. My guess is that your unit might not be that big..and so there is a need for more Officers and NCOs.

The smaller the unit, the less cadet officers and cadet NCOs you need. Even c/TSgt is a little high for freshmen. We are down to c/SrA for firsties unless they are above and beyond, which then they can go BTZ (Below The Zone) and hit up to c/SSgt.

[Stryfe]

Even c/TSgt is a little high for freshmen. We are down to c/SrA for firsties unless they are above and beyond, which then they can go BTZ (Below The Zone) and hit up to c/SSgt.

Seems about right to me. In my unit, there are 4 promotion opportunities per year. We've got our 1st semester promotion board, a social in January in which everyone gets promoted, 2nd semester promotion board, and Dining Out in May where everyone gets promoted.

As a freshman you pretty much automatically get all promotions unless you had ISS or OSS or don't show up to the board. For 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years it actually get's hard to pass them.

I think 4 promotion opps. per year seems pretty balanced to me.

[TruBlu]

My corps has adopted a three per year with a BTZ option for those that deserve recognition above their peers. We also work on a modified block schedule, so having up to four per 'year' works out to quite a bit. Three was decided on when examining rank structures. We have it where AS1s and AS2s have their cadet airman year (c/AB thru c/SrA) and then their cadet NCO year (c/SSgt thru c/TSgt). This is for a good cadet that does what they are supposed to and is active, not everyone. At the third year, they can hit the cadet SNCO ranks (c/MSgt thru c/SMSgt) or if they have attended COLS and the need is there, they can be 'commissioned' and run through the 'company grade' cadet officer ranks (c/2nd Lt thru c/Capt). Senior year, they can hit the highest SNCO rank (c/CMSgt) or go into the 'field grade' officer ranks (c/Maj thru c/Col).

I like this system and so far it's working pretty well (we just implemented it this year).

[Stryfe]

In your system, is it a choice if you want to go through what it takes to get Commissioned like in the real military? What I mean is, from what I read in your post there are 2 paths you can take, Enlisted and Commissioned, each with their respective "cap" ranks. So if a cadet chooses so, could he remain within the enlisted ranks, or is he/she assigned to be commissioned?

[TruBlu]

Being 'commissioned' is always optional and never assigned. The idea is that to attain the cadet SNCO ranks, cadets that desire those ranks will attain them and become more specialized in particular areas. To attain the cadet officer ranks, a cadet must be qualified by attending COLS and show leadership ability during their AS1 and AS2 years (or AS3 if they desire it then), not to mention be asked to join the cadet officer ranks. Our objective when altering the promotion system was to give the cadet SNCO ranks more pull and the cadet officer ranks higher respect. Most cadets will not reach the cadet SNCO ranks, and most will not reach the cadet 'field grades' in this system. In doing so, these positions are highly sought after and thus respected more.

[darthrebelpenguin]

This is a very interesting topic for me. I'm currently an AS1, in a group with some 150 cadets. However, we are VERY strict about who we hand it out to. There are three SNCO's, and only 5 cadets that will ever reach the rank of C/Capt. Out of the two squadrons we have, there are 10 department heads who will remain C/1Lt. The rest of the 127 cadets are of lower rank. I was lucky enough to be made one of those SNCO's as a freshman. I feel, so long as the freshman exhibits an in depth knowledge of the cadet corp and the ability to effictly run a department/squadron, his or her age shouldn't matter. I do very well in my posistion, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that would.

[armysc_25b]

I've voiced my disdain with junior cadets being placed in positions of seniority and being promoted to higher ranks on the previous version of this forum. But to restate it, extremely quickly, I don't think that a first year cadet should be in a position higher than Squad Leader, maybe Platoon Sergeant (or service equivilent) and should not make it higher than c/CPL/SrA/Cpl/PO3, period. No first year cadet has the experience to be in those higher positions in my opinion. As far as second year cadets go, I remember there being someone who came in who was a LET-2 in an AJROTC program who was halfway through the year and a c/MAJ. Again, there's no way that an LET-2 has the knowledge or experience necessary to be in a position that authorizes said rank.

[TruBlu]

Many cadets can operate efficiently as AS1 commanders and cadet NCOs, especially in well developed units, which I'm guessing you come from by looking at your signature (BTW, AFJROTC units use AS years to designate years). In general, younger cadets should be focused on following and learning the ropes while showing potential and ability. Rank caps insure that cadets' heads don't get too big and give each rank a little more respect.

[Psybadek]

I feel, so long as the freshman exhibits an in depth knowledge of the cadet corp and the ability to effictly run a department/squadron, his or her age shouldn't matter.

I completely disagree with you. If you were in my unit as a NS1 the highest rank you could achieve is a C/PO2, and that's VERY difficult to get. A first year cadet should not be a CO of anything, platoon, unit, company ect ect. Now a XO for a team I can accept. There are freshman that can excel highly in one of the teams and if a XO is open I wouldn't mind them taking it. They have a hand in running it, but are still able to learn from their CO. It takes time to learn how to be a effective leader, and a NS1 (or the service equivalent) doesn't have the experience for that. As a NS2 they now have the experience to be a effective Team CO or a Platoon XO.

[Drill for life]

My corps has adopted a three per year with a BTZ option for those that deserve recognition above their peers. We also work on a modified block schedule, so having up to four per 'year' works out to quite a bit. Three was decided on when examining rank structures. We have it where AS1s and AS2s have their cadet airman year (c/AB thru c/SrA) and then their cadet NCO year (c/SSgt thru c/TSgt). This is for a good cadet that does what they are supposed to and is active, not everyone. At the third year, they can hit the cadet SNCO ranks (c/MSgt thru c/SMSgt) or if they have attended COLS and the need is there, they can be 'commissioned' and run through the 'company grade' cadet officer ranks (c/2nd Lt thru c/Capt). Senior year, they can hit the highest SNCO rank (c/CMSgt) or go into the 'field grade' officer ranks (c/Maj thru c/Col).

I like this system and so far it's working pretty well (we just implemented it this year).

That is a great plan, having a whole career as a C/NCO or C/SNCO ot going from black to silver(enlisted to officer ranks). Here is how our system works:

Our freshman year you can make C/E-3(C/PFC and that's it unless you are in a higher grade and then you will male C/Cpl)

Our sophmore year you will be bumped up two grades or one and if you went to JCLC you can make C/Sfc-C/Sgm or C/2ndLt.

Our Junionr year you can make C/Sfc-C/Sgm or C/2ndLt-C/Maj

Our Senior year you can make C/Msg-1sg or C/2ndLt-Ltcol

[Drill for life]

Many cadets can operate efficiently as AS1 commanders and cadet NCOs, especially in well developed units, which I'm guessing you come from by looking at your signature (BTW, AFJROTC units use AS years to designate years). In general, younger cadets should be focused on following and learning the ropes while showing potential and ability. Rank caps insure that cadets' heads don't get too big and give each rank a little more respect.

Shoot we have C/Pfc's who let that rank get to there head and when they return from JCLC we give them C/1sg, what the heck if they can't step outside themselves and work with people and a team and not just think of themseve's why should we reward that with C/SNCO or C/Officer rank?

[Armed Drill Addict]

As a NS2 they now have the experience to be a effective Team CO or a Platoon XO.

I disagree to command an entire team, an NS3 is the lowest you should go because as NS2s you are still learning how team dynamics work and you shouldn't be commanding people who have been on the team 2x or 3x longer then they have.

Platoon XO, I can understand, but to me a team requires more through knowledge of drill.

[Stryfe]

Platoon XO, I can understand, but to me a team requires more through knowledge of drill.

I agree with this. In my opinion nothing helps a Cadet learn teamwork and leadership more than Drill.

[Psybadek]

I disagree to command an entire team, an NS3 is the lowest you should go because as NS2s you are still learning how team dynamics work and you shouldn't be commanding people who have been on the team 2x or 3x longer then they have.

Platoon XO, I can understand, but to me a team requires more through knowledge of drill.

I disagree, not all NS2's are the same. Some NS2's have previous experience where they have the knowledge. Not ALL NS2's can qualify for it, and a vast majority wont, but those like myself who were in CAP all ready had experience in team leadership. It's something that need's to be taken into consideration when looking for someone to run a team, a cadet with CAP or Young Marines experience before JROTC generally will be effective leaders. Of course cadet's with previous experience will need to be a XO first to be able to show they can effectively run a team. Without that exception I would totally agree with you

[Armed Drill Addict]

I disagree, not all NS2's are the same. Some NS2's have previous experience where they have the knowledge. Not ALL NS2's can qualify for it, and a vast majority wont, but those like myself who were in CAP all ready had experience in team leadership. It's something that need's to be taken into consideration when looking for someone to run a team, a cadet with CAP or Young Marines experience before JROTC generally will be effective leaders. Of course cadet's with previous experience will need to be a XO first to be able to show they can effectively run a team. Without that exception I would totally agree with you

Well that would be an exception to my opinion. If they previous experience in drill and ceremonies. In my 4 years in JROTC I have never met a cadet who had the previous experience so I didn't include it in my reasoning.

[Stryfe]

Well that would be an exception to my opinion. If they previous experience in drill and ceremonies. In my 4 years in JROTC I have never met a cadet who had the previous experience so I didn't include it in my reasoning.

Same, I talked to my SASI about this earlier today, and he said our unit hasnt had a CAP or Young Marine Cadet in 5-6 years.

[Cdt_Lewis]

Our unit gives rank based upon activity within the corps and what we do. For our cadet officers it is manditory to attend a leadership school (sls) before given any rank or position in upperstaff. Our SASI feels we should earn our rank and work for it. I believe it is a good policy.

[Psybadek]

Well that would be an exception to my opinion. If they previous experience in drill and ceremonies. In my 4 years in JROTC I have never met a cadet who had the previous experience so I didn't include it in my reasoning.
I figured you didn't, but it's something to remember. I know it's not common, it wasn't even common in my school, I was the only one in my unit who was in CAP before going into NJROTC, allthough the other members in my CAP squadron who were in high school were in their schools JROTC program.


Same, I talked to my SASI about this earlier today, and he said our unit hasnt had a CAP or Young Marine Cadet in 5-6 years.
Yeah it's not common, most CAP squadrons are pretty small and when I was going into high school the majority of my squadron were younger cadets not in high school yet. For Young Marines I've never actually met anyone in it. It's even more rare. FYI stryfe, Young Marines are not cadet's, they are called Young Marines in lieu of cadet.

[Stryfe]

FYI stryfe, Young Marines are not cadet's, they are called Young Marines in lieu of cadet.

Didn't know that, can't say I know alot about the Young Marines. But thanks.

[Psybadek]

Not a problem, I don't know a whole lot about the Young Marines, it was one of the things I remembered when I looked them up.