NCO Sword and Officer Saber

[C/SSGT Seifer]

I was just wondering, why is it that I see so many officer's use sabers, and no NCO's use swords? This seems to hold especially true in my battalion. My BC uses a saber for any event, whether it be a competition, color guard event, parade, you name the event and he uses the saber. I never see anyone use the NCO sword though, it seems like a long lost tradition. Does anyone know the history behind it, and why it is no longer used?

[cscsmp]

I've never seen anyone use one period.

[armysc_25b]

At the retirement for one of my AI's, he was presented the NCO Sword. Aside from that, my JROTC program only had sabers.

[army_grunt_11B]

I know unless its given to you, you gotta buy it... and they are not cheap, so most NCO's wont buy it, but that is NG, might be different in AD

[txb&b]

I know unless its given to you, you gotta buy it... and they are not cheap, so most NCO's wont buy it, but that is NG, might be different in AD

I'm pretty sure they have to buy (or be given) theirs also, or at least the ones I'm aware of did. You're right about them not being cheap. I saw sword prices in the $350-500 range.

[JohnP]

I was just wondering, why is it that I see so many officer's use sabers, and no NCO's use swords? This seems to hold especially true in my battalion. My BC uses a saber for any event, whether it be a competition, color guard event, parade, you name the event and he uses the saber. I never see anyone use the NCO sword though, it seems like a long lost tradition. Does anyone know the history behind it, and why it is no longer used?

The sword adopted in 1859 and subsequently carried by noncommissioned officers (NCOs) of the United States Marine Corps is patterned after the United States Army’s foot officers’ sword of 1850, with minor differences. Marine NCO swords feature a cast-brass hilt with a half-basket guard; leather-wrapped grip bound with twisted brass wire; a slightly curved, single-edged blade with a wide central fuller and short false edge; and a black-leather scabbard with two brass mounts, including an upper mount with a stud for carrying in a leather belt frog, and a brass tip with drag

U.S. Marine officers and NCOs’ have carried swords since the American Revolutionary War. During the earliest years, the swords worn by Marine NCOs are believed to have been based on Army patterns, though not necessarily the exact swords used by Army NCOs. By approximately the mid-1820s, however, Marine NCOs began wearing distinctive short sabers with cast brass eagle head hilts and curved blades. About this same time, in 1826, Marine Corps officers also began wearing a distinctive new sword of the Mameluke style, similar to those worn today.

In 1859, a completely new sword pattern was introduced for Marine Corps officers, who were instructed to wear the same sword then worn by Army foot officers since 1850. In addition, in 1859 a similar sword was authorized for wear by Marine NCOs, so that the swords worn by Marine officers and NCOs appeared to share very nearly the same pattern and characteristics. The Marine NCO version, though similar to that worn by Marine officers, had several differences. Among the most noticeable, NCO swords had plain brass hilts and scabbard mounts, whereas officers’ hilts and scabbard mounts normally were gilt. In addition, the grips on NCO swords were wrapped with leather, whereas those for officers were usually covered with sharkskin. Finally, NCO scabbards had only two scabbard mounts, consisting of a top mount with frog stud and a scabbard tip, whereas officers’ scabbards bore three mounts, including upper and middle mounts fitted with carrying rings.
The sword worn by Marine NCOs since 1859 was also carried throughout the American Civil War. With only slight modifications since that time, it has maintained its distinctive and traditional appearance. Only the sword authorized in 1852 for United States Navy officers has a longer service life, and today the M1859 Marine NCO sword is among the oldest weapons still in U.S. inventory.

The M1859 NCO sword continues service today as the Marine Corps drill and ceremonial sword. At this time, the US Marine Corps is the only US Armed Force that authorizes its enlisted members to carry a sword. In the Marine Corps the sword's use is restricted by regulation to ceremonial occasions by an NCO or Staff NCO in command of troops under arms.

References:

LTC (Ret.) Cureton, Charles H., USMC. “Early Marine Corps Swords,” The Bulletin of the American Society of Arms Collectors, No. 93, 2006, pp. 110-133.
Crouch, Howard R. Historic American Swords. Fairfax, VA: SCS Publications, 1999, pp. 99-105.
Peterson, Harold L. The American Sword 1775-1945. Philadelphia: Ray Riling Arms Books Co., 1970, pp. 57-58.
USMC Essential Subjects, Dept. of Defense Legacy Resource Management Program, ISBN 0967512360
Guidebook For Marines, Dept. of Defense Legacy Resource Management Program, ISBN 0940328070
Simmons & Moskin, The Marines, 1998, ISBN 0883631989, pp. 138-139
NAVMC 2691, Marine Corps Drill and Ceremonies Manual, January 1999

[Drill for life]

When I was a C/1SG I used a NCO sowrd for every Football Color Guard I commanded.(I used a Saber though because our NCO sword was broken). I know I may not of used a NCO sword but we do have them and we would use them. NCO's and SNCO's inteh Marine Corps use them regularly(like MCRD graduations)

[Delta Farce]

In my battalion only c/commanders use sabers, unless your on saber team then NCOs use them for a few events, but the events have nothing to do with JROTC.

[devin0116]

In addition, the grips on NCO swords were wrapped with leather, whereas those for officers were usually covered with sharkskin.

Sharkskin?? As in Reef Sharks or something? I think that is pretty interesting.

[C/SSGT Seifer]

For all of you who have not seen an NCO Sword, here it is. http://www.militarysabers.com/images/88-102-army-nco-hi.jpg
Also, as to the price. The lowest priced one I have seen is around $160, the next cheapest was $300.

[Drill for life]

Hey just so you guys know Petty Officers(starting at E-4) can carry a Petty Officer Cutlass.
http://www.militarysabers.com/images/88-202-navy-cutlass-med.jpg

[C/SSGT Seifer]

Hey just so you guys know Petty Officers(starting at E-4) can carry a Petty Officer Cutlass.
http://www.militarysabers.com/images/88-202-navy-cutlass-med.jpg

That's pretty cool. I didn't know that there was a Petty Officer Cutlass.

[C/SSGT Seifer]

I am sorry for reviving this dead thread, however I can't get this out of my head. After doing some research I have found some pretty cheap NCO Swords (for about $85) and now that I have some money I am considering buying one. I know that they are not commonly used, however as a JROTC cadet do you think that I would be able to use mine during ceremonies? Obviously it is still in service because it is still in the D&C Manual.
http://rotc.okstate.edu/pdf/FM%203-21.5%20Drill%20and%20Ceremony.pdf
It is found in Appendix F.