Thoughts on the new coat designs?

[OrienteeringOH]

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9711/coatys8.th.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=coatys8.jpg)

There was another design as well, i'll post the picture when I locate it.

[RLM10_2_06]

Just a nitpicky question, but is she supposed to be wearing a tie in lieu of a tie tab? Feels TOO retro, if you ask me. In any case, I prefer the crisp look of the old service coat. This one seems almost...patched together, for lack of better terms. I like it simple anyways.

[Drill for life]

To me it looks like a Police officer's uniform(or a Flight/dress uniform) I think it is ugly(well I think all Air Force uniforms are ugly, except class B's and ABU's)

[Ivan_The_Mute]

The design is referred to as the "Hap Arnold" legacy uniform, and is a throwback to the designs used by the USAAF during WWII and immediately after. The other is the "Billy Mitchell" legacy uniform. Both are designs that harken back to before the current modified "McPeak" uniform which is probably the most hated dress uniform in the history of the USAF.

And, small nitpick (Drill for Life,) the USAF doesn't have Class B's.

[Drill for life]

It's good to see you Captain(you got promoted!!). I thought the USAF called it's uniform with short-sleeves Class B's.

[Billyd]

It's good to see you Captain(you got promoted!!). I thought the USAF called it's uniform with short-sleeves Class B's.

That is why we deal in FACTS not THOUGHTS here, cadet.

Just for reference, Air Force uniforms are referred to thusly:

Service Dress - coat, blue shirt/blouse, tie/tab, trousers/skirt, low quarters/pumps
SS Service - short sleeve shirt/blouse, tie (optional), etc
LS Service - long sleeve shirt/blouse, tie/tab, etc
BDU/ABU

[TruBlu]

Not a fan myself. I don't like the look of four pockets, two breast pockets are nice but four makes it look very combat oriented and takes away from a "clean" look, something that the Air Force has done fairly well with. The pocket design itself isn't bad, my only quarrel is that they are a little wide in my opinion.

Also that belt is terrible looking and looks like it belongs on the inside of a combat blouse. Hope that won't be standard on the uniform...

[CAPSmith]

It takes away from a "clean" look...

The Air Force has, over the last few years, been pushing to present a more military image than it has previously.

Read this article: http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/01/airforce_backtalk_dorr_011609/

Here is a blurb:
I don’t know how far the chief would go to restore military conduct to an Air Force that hasn’t seen it in decades. Here is what I would do:

* Get a proper military uniform. Despite widespread skepticism, the proposed heritage coat would give airmen a military appearance for the first time in decades. Those who don’t like the coat need to suck it up. The current service dress uniform doesn’t work, and the new coat is essential.

[Ivan_The_Mute]

Not a fan myself. I don't like the look of four pockets, two breast pockets are nice but four makes it look very combat oriented and takes away from a "clean" look, something that the Air Force has done fairly well with. The pocket design itself isn't bad, my only quarrel is that they are a little wide in my opinion.

Also that belt is terrible looking and looks like it belongs on the inside of a combat blouse. Hope that won't be standard on the uniform...

The uniform, as pictured in the op, is the final design for the new USAF service dress uniform. Major changes are the jacket (as you can see, a return to the four button, four pocket design with epaulets on both officer and enlisted jackets,) the mandatory wear of an external belt, and the wear of a tie for females (while in said jacket. Without the jacket, the option will be tie or tab, as directed for the uniform of the day.)
---
Now, as to why the USAF is going to this uniform. The Air Force has and is in an identity crisis. While the art of warfare for naval forces and ground forces have improved tactics and technology, remains largely the same. The Army attacks, kills people, takes ground, and denies it to the enemy. The Navy projects force and engages seaborne and coastal targets, and directs Army and Marine amphibious operations. Even with the advent of Army and Naval aviation, the main job remains to kill crunchies on the ground or protect shipping. Just WHAT is the role of the United States Air Force? When it was the USAAF, the Air Force acted as support to infantry and armored units, or as a heavier strategic "flying artillery" platform.

When it separated from the Army in 1947, the CAS job remained with the Air Force, as well as the new duty of strategic nuclear deterrence. From 1947-1953, the Air Force did both and (in a sense) continues to do both to this day. In the Korean War, not only did the Air Force provide close air support, it provided strategic capabilities to stop or blunt attacks by the North Koreans and Chinese communist "volunteers." The Army, at that time, was limited by the "Function of the Armed Forces and the Joint Chiefs of Staff" paper (also known as the Key West agreement.) Not until 1952, when the agreement was modified to allow rocket and gun armed helicopters for the purposes of CAS, did Army aviation become what it is today. During that time, the Air Force wore the same uniform it did during World War II which matched with its role.

However, with the growth of the Cold War and the Army being able to provide its own CAS, the Air Force (and its uniform) shifted to a modernized version of the WWII 4-pocket uniform to match with its new primary duty of smashing whole bases by bomber and missile based nuclear weapons. The uniform projected a military image but without the hard edge that was typified in the Army's Class A "Pickle Suit." It was martial in cut, but also businesslike. The Air Force was, as an organization, martial, but run almost as if it were a business. In 1993/1994, the uniform shifted to match this new "business" way of thought. The McPeak uniform eliminated epaulets on the uniform and put officer's rank on the sleeves (similar to how the Navy wears theirs.) It was (and is) the most unpopular uniform in the Air Force's history. The "Airliner" uniform was rapidly modified when Gen. McPeak retired and Gen. Fogleman took over as Chief of Staff. The uniform has remained the same since.

Now as to why the Air Force has taken a renewed interest in its uniforms and why the designs are going the way they are. Look at the service itself. WHAT is the Air Force doing now? What is our role, our purpose? Is it to be an airliner, ferrying troops around the world? Is it to point the nuclear gun at the Soviet Union and PRC? Is it to kill crunchies on the ground and make it easier for the Army and Marines to take and hold ground? In fact, it is all of those and has been since 1947, but the percentage of each role has changed. The Air Force is no longer (it really never was, but the leadership has learned) a "business" but a martial force. Since the Vietnam War, the USAF has flown more and more close air support and tactical sorties. We have come full circle and are once again "flying artillery" in support of ground operations. It is apt that the uniform itself has come full circle to one nearly identical to the one worn in 1945.

[OrienteeringOH]

Thank you all for your input - It has been very informative.

I'm hoping to make a career out of the Air Force and was just hoping for some other opinions.

As a JROTC cadet I always looked up to other services at Drill Competititons and other events, where the MCJROTC cadets were in their sharp dress and the Navy Cadets had their Winter Blues (That may be an incorrect title for that uniform.) Even though i'm proud of the Air Force, I am not too impressed by the Service Dress Coat.

[AFCadetSteel]

It looks like a shorter version of the Air Force Overcoat.

I like my service dress!! :(

[cyclonecadet]

In my humble opinion as a C/3C in AFROTC, I think that the Hap Arnold Heritage Coat is by and far a vast improvement on the current service coat. The current coat looks too much like a simple business coat and does not present a militaristic appearance. I personally cannot wait to get one if they make it the new standard.

[TruBlu]

In my humble opinion as a C/3C in AFROTC, I think that the Hap Arnold Heritage Coat is by and far a vast improvement on the current service coat. The current coat looks too much like a simple business coat and does not present a militaristic appearance. I personally cannot wait to get one if they make it the new standard.

With that revive, I'd like to comment that I do now like the design (have for a while since then). I was originally opposed, but after thinking about it, the USAF has a business coat and nothing military about it. Can't wait for it now.

[ang1sgt]

The last few I have disliked. This new one is really the pits. Think about trying to get one of these to fit some BB stacker from the Bomb Dump, 6 foot plus, and 200 lbs. Not gonna look good.

[C/CLN]

The last few I have disliked. This new one is really the pits. Think about trying to get one of these to fit some BB stacker from the Bomb Dump, 6 foot plus, and 200 lbs. Not gonna look good.
I personally love the new coat (the stand-collar one is disgusting though).
I think if you look like crap in a coat, well then that's your fault.

[AirPower3P0X1]

In my humble opinion as a C/3C in AFROTC, I think that the Hap Arnold Heritage Coat is by and far a vast improvement on the current service coat. The current coat looks too much like a simple business coat and does not present a militaristic appearance. I personally cannot wait to get one if they make it the new standard.

One of the reasons I really dislike our current uniform. I actually really like the new one. I guess it doesn't horrible concern me because I'm a cop, and as such, I don't have to wear my blues much at all.
Personally, I'd like to see a change on the ABU's before something on the blues. I think ABU's were a mistake. We sacrificed something that generally seemed to work for the whole Air Force with the BDU to something that works for people in offices.
The Chief of Staff is (thankfully) more focused on ensuring other needs are met before we get a new dress uniform.
http://www.citamn.afrc.af.mil/features/story_print.asp?id=123160524