Religion and Faith in Everyday Life

[SlightlyCatholic]

So, since this is my area of interest, I'd figured I'd start a thread here about the role that religion plays in all of your lives. I realize that this is a private and sacred topic and I wouldn't want anyone feeling uncomfortable by replying.However, if anyone would like to respond, I'd appreciate any input you might want to give regarding what faith and religion do for you every day (or what they don't do, if you happen to be athiest or agnostic). Thanks everyone, and God bless.

[ang1sgt]

Tim,

Tough subject for most.

I have had a number of years that tested my faith. Before and after Desert Storm I had numerous things that pulled me away from my Church. Some of these things were my marriage to a Catholic Woman and my promises to the Catholic Church to raise my children as Catholic. As a very young man I accepted this to appease my new wife and her family.

For a long time I allowed my wife to do what she did. As a Christian man, raised American Baptist, and currently Southern Baptist, I abdicated my position as head of household when it came to my beliefs and my desire to see my children truly understand about salvation and God's Plan for them. This later in life has caused me many problems for myself.

I firmly believe that a good foundation based in the Church, the Bible, and God, leads to a well-grounded individual. One that when hard times come, they can fall back to their roots in the Church and not drop fully into the mire that this World provides.

Late in my Career in the USAF/Air Guard I had the chance to apply for the position of First Sergeant. I prayed about this. The first time in a long time that I actually put effort into my prayers. I put my "package" together, submitted it, went through the selection process, and was selected to be the new First Sergeant for my Squadron.

After 8 weeks of training at Maxwell AFB. I returned to my Unit and started to work with my assigned Commander. After a short while, we both clicked together well and we asked each other about our religion and faith. Both of us are Born-Again Christians, that believe in Prayer. We kept that at the forefront of our dealing with our Unit. With 255 people, and up to 400 during a deployment, we had a full plate of problem that would arise.

During this time period, I did not have a Church home. It's been many many years since I have. Due to the faith and Love, a friend got me to consider going back to Church. To find someplace that I felt comfortable with. She kept after me, almost to the point of calling some of my local churches.

I am now in a Church that I feel good about. I have a Pastor that PREACHES and TEACHES from the Bible and not some canned monotone sermon from a book that the Church approves. The Church Membership CARES about it's Guests and it's Members. At a time when I was down and having problems, they prayed for me and my family. They came and visited my daughter and new grandson at the Hospital during some very tough first weeks of his life. They were there as strangers to my family, but friends in Christ to me.

This Sunday after many prayers and much talking, my oldest Daughter is coming to Church with me. She's never asked to come to Church with me, and I welcome this with open arms. I believe that each of us needs to come to terms with our Faith and our Salvation. My daughter is making that first step, and with her will be her boy friend and my new grandson. My many prayers are starting to be answered. I continue to pray for guidance and support for my daughter and her family.

I have many people to thank for this. My best friend for her Love, Faith and Devotion and the willingness to stick with me and push me to where I needed to be. To my Church Membership that has Loved me and accepted me for who I am. To my Pastor Cliff, who has taken the time to help me through so much, and to take that time to be with me at some hard times.
And most of all to God for listening to this humbled, Crusty old Sergeant and helping me to realize that he has been with me through out my life's path.

AMEN!

[SlightlyCatholic]

Thank you for your heartfelt and certainly personal insights. Your faith is something to be proud of, and I can tell that you truly cherish it and make it part of your everyday life. Great to hear!

[Woody]

Atheist attend church when ordered .Doesn't mean anything to me except
tradition.Some I am hostile against ,Others just ignore.

[reddog]

Tim, for the mere fact you are following in the foot steps of our Creator and wanting to serve Him and the military, just speaks volumns of your character, period. I have and had, the deepest respect for those of your kind and have witnessed some incredible acts of bravery, with the only weapon used, being the Holy Bible and water. Lead on, Padre!
Easy Brother,
Reddog...

[SlightlyCatholic]

Reddog,

Thank you so much for your kind words. I am simply trying to do what I believe God wants me to do...which, God-willing, will be ministering to one of our Armed Service Branches as a Catholic Priest. God bless!

[dukesix]

Well said all of you! Faith is a day to day endeavor.....don't ever assume God's plan! He may have other things in mind!

Dukesix

[Kiwi]

God is there with me in everyday life, he is never way from me.

I personally could not imagine him not being there.

But I don't push my belief on to others ( as we call it bible bash), God gave us free will for a reason, and for those who take a different path, I wish all the luck in the world with that.

[Smiles]

I was raised Catholic, nuns and I were never the best of friends early on. Nuns don't like to be proven wrong too often, go figure. I never felt comfortable with the religion, too many unanswered questions.

I never questioned or doubted God's existence but there were many times that I had to stop and ask God why so much was happening to me as a kid. I'm a survivor of child abuse, folks looked the other way, child services wouldn't help...where was God?

As a teen I was raped, couldn't tell my folks they thought the guy who did it was a saint. Where was God and why was this happening to me?

As an adult I was married 16+ years to a soldier who couldn't see past his nose. I'm a survivor of 16 yrs of domestic violence, why did any of this have to happen to me? My ex was the one who introduced me to the Baptist faith back in '89, I found my salvation and was baptized that same year.

I've learned and listened over the years, I remember praying through every hateful situation I've been through and I was finally able to answer my own question. God was there every time holding my hand, when I fell he helped me back to my feet, when I hurt he healed my bruises, when I cried he wiped away my tears...he never left me nor forsook me. We can't choose our parents but I did choose my mate back then, everything that happened was due to that choice I made awhile back. After looking back on it all, God was preparing me to be right where I am today and because of that I'm able to raise my six kids alone, attended school and am now a bench technician...we're making it and we will rise above those who tried to hold us back all of these years. My 6 kids and I attend church at least 3 times a week, are we perfect...nope but we're saved by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God's also given me a best friend to beat all, I'm so proud of his accomplishments...he's overcome a great deal in his life and passed many tests on his faith and my family here at Grunt's with whom I've been able to rely on when life got a bit hairy! ;) I am truly blessed! If you can't see God in your life, then you're not looking hard enough!

Smiles

[SlightlyCatholic]

My 6 kids and I attend church at least 3 times a week, are we perfect...nope but we're saved by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's great to hear, Smiles. God bless you for your faith and for allowing God to be a part of your life. Good for you!

[PhoenixCadet]

I was raised a Catholic since I was born (baptized, first communion). A few years back, my parent's started attending a Bible-study class at our church (Catholic), even though it wasn't taught in as a Catholic course. Totally the opposite, actually. I won't go into speifics (mostly because I didn't attend the classes with them), but it opened their eyes to many things that they (as well as I) disagree with in the Catholic Church.

We have since started attending another local church (part of the Calvary Chapel, for those familiar with that). It's a great, Bible-based church, and the main pastor there always has great (and quite interesting) messages.

I know God is always with me, and know that he's always helping to push me in the right direction (whether it be morally or with where I'm taking my life).

-PC

[SGM]

For me faith and religion are two separate things. I have my faith in God and that he take care of me, that there is a plan for my life, and that He does answer prayers.

I hate religion - so many different religions say you have to do this or that to belong to my religion. Churches are great as long as they don't profess to a Religion. Some of the best church services I ever attended were in the sands of Kuwait or Iraq, in a muddy field on Croatia or Bosnia, or the biggest church I ever attended - sitting on a ridge top over looking the Salmon River Canyon in Idaho!!! Sitting overlooking the canyon and country, I felt the closest to God I believe I ever have. For me it is in your heart and mind.

[PhoenixCadet]

For me faith and religion are two separate things. I have my faith in God and that he take care of me, that there is a plan for my life, and that He does answer prayers.

I hate religion - so many different religions say you have to do this or that to belong to my religion. Churches are great as long as they don't profess to a Religion. Some of the best church services I ever attended were in the sands of Kuwait or Iraq, in a muddy field on Croatia or Bosnia, or the biggest church I ever attended - sitting on a ridge top over looking the Salmon River Canyon in Idaho!!! Sitting overlooking the canyon and country, I felt the closest to God I believe I ever have. For me it is in your heart and mind.

This is one of the things the pastor at my church was discussing a few weeks ago. He was essentially saying that you need to get away from "religion", in it's organized form, and (for those who are Christians), simply live your life as a follower of Christ.

This is something I agree with fully.

Thank you for reminding me of that, SGM.

[SlightlyCatholic]

For me faith and religion are two separate things. I have my faith in God and that he take care of me, that there is a plan for my life, and that He does answer prayers.

I hate religion - so many different religions say you have to do this or that to belong to my religion. Churches are great as long as they don't profess to a Religion. Some of the best church services I ever attended were in the sands of Kuwait or Iraq, in a muddy field on Croatia or Bosnia, or the biggest church I ever attended - sitting on a ridge top over looking the Salmon River Canyon in Idaho!!! Sitting overlooking the canyon and country, I felt the closest to God I believe I ever have. For me it is in your heart and mind.

That's an interesting distinction. I've always considered the two linked.

I've provided a definition here of both "faith" and "religion", just to see how the two might differ. I took the first definition of each from a dictionary.

1. Faith = confidence or trust in a person or thing


2. Religion = a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

It's interesting to look at the two definitions against each other. What I see from this is that religion seems to be a collective unification of individuals of similar faith. Faith, however, seems to apply equally well to secular interests. Faith doesn't necessarily have to be religious at all, since I can have faith that the mailman is going to come every day at two in the afternoon. But what of the people like myself who apply religion as a superstructure to faith? Is that a perversion of what faith should be? It's certainly something to discuss and think about.

[HairyEyeball]

Or it can be navel-gazing carried to the point of mental masturbation.

You seem to be unaware of the fact that while 'outside' subjects may be discussed here, this is primarily a military forum, not one composed of amateur philosophers and post whores.

[wukong]

Or it can be navel-gazing carried to the point of mental masturbation.

You seem to be unaware of the fact that while 'outside' subjects may be discussed here, this is primarily a military forum, not one composed of amateur philosophers and post whores.

Hairy, if you were any poster other than a moderator this might be acceptable comment. Back off.

[HairyEyeball]

Comment duly noted and appropriate action deferred.

Perhaps you might elucidate on why my opinion, as you phrased it, is any less valid than that of 'any other poster'?

There is no 'requirement' to account for a 'judgment call' by a Moderator, but for the record, based on the quantity and content of posts by this individual, which appear repetitious and arrogant, and contain 'theoretical questions' phrased in a manner demonstrating an absence of knowledge of their subjects, that was the call.

Whether it was phrased in an 'excessive' manner or might have been more appropriately appended to another of his numerous 'hypothetical' threads may be open to question. The quest for knowledge is always admirable, however even our cadets have learned to garner available facts prior to posting queries. The good future Chaplain has continuously violated this precept despite repeated admonitions, and persists in positing 'what-ifs' while ignoring the readily available 'real world' facts, and when such are brought to his attention, answering with 'yes buts' and 'but ifs'.

Should his intent of commissioning as a military Chaplain be achieved, this maundering approach will ill serve him and the personnel he ministers to.

[space3math]

Sir, if I might ask, what "real world facts" would you have like Seminarian_Tim to introduce in this particular discussion? It's a discussion of faith, which is obviously going to involve some discussion on a level higher than simply laying out the way things are, unless each person is just going to state what his beliefs are and leave it at that - which is not a discussion at all. It's also placed in the "Non-Military Topics" section of the forum - if only topics that conform to the forum's primarily military nature are permittable, I'm not sure why Grunt bothered to put this section here.

No disrespect meant, sir, but I fail to see how concerns that you might have with Tim's methods in other discussions would invalidate this particular one.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Comment duly noted and appropriate action deferred.

Perhaps you might elucidate on why my opinion, as you phrased it, is any less valid than that of 'any other poster'?

There is no 'requirement' to account for a 'judgment call' by a Moderator, but for the record, based on the quantity and content of posts by this individual, which appear repetitious and arrogant, and contain 'theoretical questions' phrased in a manner demonstrating an absence of knowledge of their subjects, that was the call.

Whether it was phrased in an 'excessive' manner or might have been more appropriately appended to another of his numerous 'hypothetical' threads may be open to question. The quest for knowledge is always admirable, however even our cadets have learned to garner available facts prior to posting queries. The good future Chaplain has continuously violated this precept despite repeated admonitions, and persists in positing 'what-ifs' while ignoring the readily available 'real world' facts, and when such are brought to his attention, answering with 'yes buts' and 'but ifs'.

Should his intent of commissioning as a military Chaplain be achieved, this maundering approach will ill serve him and the personnel he ministers to.


Your opinion is duly noted. However, I kindly request two things.

One: If you have something negative to say to or about me, say it in a Private Message or please keep your opinion to yourself. I don't think that's too much to ask, and I don't see a need for public slander on this forum. We teach the cadets to handle things in private, so it would be good to practice what we preach.

Two: Don't judge my posts by what YOU interpret them to be. Many posts here can be taken in many ways, and things like sarcasm can be virtually undetectable here. If my posts offend you, talk to ME about them and we can have an adult discussion about whether my tone is or is not inflammatory. It's dangerous for a reader to speculate an author's intent without discussing such intent with the author himself, especially when the reader doesn't know the author.

Hopefully, we can work these issues out as adults in a private setting. Moderators, I ask that this thread be locked. It's been sufficiently derailed.

Thanks and God bless.

[HairyEyeball]

Since neither PM I have sent has been answered, I drew what appeared the logical conclusion. Are you stating you did not receive either?

[PhilK]

I've provided a definition here of both "faith" and "religion", just to see how the two might differ. I took the first definition of each from a dictionary.

I question the dictionary that you pulled those two definitions out of, according to Websters:

Faith:
Function: noun

1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions

2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust

3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction ; especially : a system of religious beliefs

Religion:
Function: noun

1 a: the state of a religious b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Now, looking at these two defenitions, faith is faith, but faith is almost a pre-requisite for religion.

It can be argued that over the years the institution of religion has gotten in the way of people's faith.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Since neither PM I have sent has been answered, I drew what appeared the logical conclusion. Are you stating you did not receive either?

That is correct, I have received neither. I'm not sure what logical conclusion you're alluding to, but that can be discussed in private. I'll be on standby for your third Private Message.

If we could either get this thread back on topic or lock it, I'd be most appreciative.

[HairyEyeball]

Taken (one hopes) to PM.

[Pinpoint_KillerXO]

Sir/s,
Excuse my personal opinion, I meen no harm nor discontentment.

But this is mainly why most people do not discuss religion. It takes people down two different paths when they read about it. But for the note I support religion and the right to practice what you so feel fit, but posting about it requires people to dig toop deep in what they think of it. It causes even the best people to question it or wonder upon it. Most of us are content with living day by day life without thinking about religion.

Also we cant be biased against other peoples opinions, we all share the right and practice it everyday. Why would he pass judgement upon Hairy? No one else was judged through out this topic. Im not saying Hairy was right nor wrong.

[SlightlyCatholic]

But this is mainly why most people do not discuss religion. It takes people down two different paths when they read about it. But for the note I support religion and the right to practice what you so feel fit, but posting about it requires people to dig toop deep in what they think of it. It causes even the best people to question it or wonder upon it. Most of us are content with living day by day life without thinking about religion.

A sign of maturity is the ability to discuss things that you may not agree with or like. If people are offended by the discussion of religion or feel that they can't talk about it without getting offended, there are plenty of other things to talk about here.

[PhoenixCadet]

A sign of maturity is the ability to discuss things that you may not agree with or like. If people are offended by the discussion of religion or feel that they can't talk about it without getting offended, there are plenty of other things to talk about here.

Another way to look at it is this simple fact. If you don't like to talk about the certain topic being discussed, don't reply to it. There's nothing wrong with it being discussed here; as it's the sole purpose of this sub-forum. "Non-military" discussions.

This was directed at Pinpoint_Killer - to reduce any confusion.

-PC

[HairyEyeball]

Most of us are content with living day by day life without thinking about religion.

Oh? When was this survey conducted, and by whom? I know I was never polled, and I am not terribly fond of having some inexperienced child (who apparently does not understand the concept of proofreading his posts) speak for me.

When and if you know something to be true and can provide the facts, feel free to generalize (although 'generalizations' by their very nature are demonstrably inaccurate). Until such time, please confine yourself to what you actually do 'know'.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Hairy, perhaps you could share with us your own opinion of religion...but I wouldn't want you feeling uncomfortable, since not everyone likes to talk about these issues. Just trying to keep the topic from being derailed again, that's all.

I'd love to get other opinions and more discussion started on the topic of religion.

[wukong]

Comment duly noted and appropriate action deferred.

Perhaps you might elucidate on why my opinion, as you phrased it, is any less valid than that of 'any other poster'?

There is no 'requirement' to account for a 'judgment call' by a Moderator, but for the record, based on the quantity and content of posts by this individual, which appear repetitious and arrogant, and contain 'theoretical questions' phrased in a manner demonstrating an absence of knowledge of their subjects, that was the call.

Whether it was phrased in an 'excessive' manner or might have been more appropriately appended to another of his numerous 'hypothetical' threads may be open to question. The quest for knowledge is always admirable, however even our cadets have learned to garner available facts prior to posting queries. The good future Chaplain has continuously violated this precept despite repeated admonitions, and persists in positing 'what-ifs' while ignoring the readily available 'real world' facts, and when such are brought to his attention, answering with 'yes buts' and 'but ifs'.

Should his intent of commissioning as a military Chaplain be achieved, this maundering approach will ill serve him and the personnel he ministers to.

Hairy, we all bring our personal shortcoming to the table in any discussion on this forum. I will admit that in an argument I get caustic so I've avoided many a topic that I would have wished to weigh in. I have a problem with your word selection and characterization. As a Moderator you have the (mis?)fortune of being in a leadership position of this forum. The topic being discussed was in the proper section and the discourse was civil. Let's say you have a tendency to be overbearing and let it go at that.

I have problems with many of the posters positions, but I've trained enough military personnel of all four branches to know that sometimes you just have to let people make their own mistakes as long as no one gets hurt.

Young adults more often than not are unable to see the consequences of a decision several steps into the future due to lack of experience. Those of us who have BTDT often recognize the resulting problems and we can often guide but at our stage of life cannot lead. We should endeavor to point out errors. Just as in his post about the fire aboard the carrier, we probably remember the fire aboard the carrier off Viet Nam or the destruction at Bien Hoa that resulted from essentially the same causes. Whether or not we weigh in is our choice, but it would be good to see some discussion on this subject.

As long as members are willing to discuss a topic however inane in a civil manner consistent with the rules, moderators should not judge the motivations of the respondents.

[HairyEyeball]

My own opinion is that it's a personal thing, and since many religions do not accept what science has termed 'natural' laws, the prospect of debating logic on one side and belief on the other could accomplish nothing beneficial - to either. Further, I have some mistrust of any 'organized' religion that has ceded the interpretation of its tenets to a central figure and effectively 'outlawed' the questioning of what have been determined 'truths' of such religion.

Between a study of history and the pursuit of logic and some casual research in the area of 'comparative religion' and 'myths, traditions and sacred history', I have had some questions raised about a few religions, and have had to avoid 'confrontations' when certain individuals took exception to something they believe - strictly on faith, with no other basis.

Suffice it to say that as far as I'm concerned, if your religion works for you (and that is a general 'you', whomever 'you' may be and whatever 'your' religion may be), we have no quarrel - until you insist it is the only 'true' one, and I 'must' recognize it: To the best of my knowledge, there is only one G-d, He has many names and there are many paths to Him.

[Kiwi]

Hairy, perhaps you could share with us your own opinion of religion...but I wouldn't want you feeling uncomfortable, since not everyone likes to talk about these issues. Just trying to keep the topic from being derailed again, that's all.

I'd love to get other opinions and more discussion started on the topic of religion.


Tim all respects intended I don't think Hairy derailed anything. You speak of religion but show none of its teachings.

Hairy is a fine man, in more ways than one. Over the time of knowing him, I have rarely seen him make a uneducated comment.

I remember once I made a comment regarding a shared faith I have with Hairy, and only once I would say that his return post was not up to par. But I fully respect of him as a man and moderator of Grunts, bowing down to a greater leadership was the key.

And for those who know me, they know its not a small thing.

Word to the wise my friend, respect is given and recieved, its never a one way street.

As God teaches us, do unto others as they would have done unto you.




And by the way hello wukong honey :D

[Armed Drill Addict]

Comment duly noted and appropriate action deferred.


Whether it was phrased in an 'excessive' manner or might have been more appropriately appended to another of his numerous 'hypothetical' threads may be open to question. The quest for knowledge is always admirable, however even our cadets have learned to garner available facts prior to posting queries. The good future Chaplain has continuously violated this precept despite repeated admonitions, and persists in positing 'what-ifs' while ignoring the readily available 'real world' facts, and when such are brought to his attention, answering with 'yes buts' and 'but ifs'.



I believe this was unneccesary for a topic such as this. Religion and faith are not facts, but many of us decide that those facts aren't neccesary to believe what we believe. This was a friendly topic where everyone had the right to post their thoughts and beliefs without being ostracized or attacked for having those beliefs. I believe that Hairy, you attacked his thoughts and ideals for no apparent reason other than the fact that you hold a different opinion than he does.

[HairyEyeball]

And heaven forfend anyone disagree with your 'beliefs'. Why, you probably 'believe' you spelled 'guidon' correctly in your signature!

Sonny, I see by your 'dog tag' you intend to find a place in my Marine Corps. If you expect to progress anywhere beyond my yellow footprints, this would be a good time to learn that your thoughts, beliefs and as yet limited comprehension will be irrelevant: The people 'in charge' - especially those nice gentlemen in the Smokey Bear toppers - are in charge because they've 'been around the block' a time or three and know just a little more than you - including when a pat on the back or a kick in the butt may be 'necessary'. Both 'here' and 'there' you're entitled to have an 'opinion' - the difference being here, you're entitled to express it - but it would behoove you to understand what you opine on, rather than assuming what you 'believe' something 'means'.

[FeelinFroggy]

"The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth amongst fools."

Ecclesiastes 9:17


A verse of scripture I remembered a long time ago, I read the Holy Bible as a part of my faith. Not directed at anyone in particular. Just a thought since this discussion has become way off topic. Private messages would probably be more fit in this case so that the arguments non-related to the topic won't clutter up the discussion.

[SlightlyCatholic]

Tim all respects intended I don't think Hairy derailed anything. You speak of religion but show none of its teachings.

Hairy is a fine man, in more ways than one. Over the time of knowing him, I have rarely seen him make a uneducated comment.

I remember once I made a comment regarding a shared faith I have with Hairy, and only once I would say that his return post was not up to par. But I fully respect of him as a man and moderator of Grunts, bowing down to a greater leadership was the key.

And for those who know me, they know its not a small thing.

Word to the wise my friend, respect is given and recieved, its never a one way street.

As God teaches us, do unto others as they would have done unto you.




And by the way hello wukong honey :D

Since we have to go public about this again...

If this isn't derailing in nature (see both posts below),


Or it can be navel-gazing carried to the point of mental masturbation.

You seem to be unaware of the fact that while 'outside' subjects may be discussed here, this is primarily a military forum, not one composed of amateur philosophers and post whores.

Comment duly noted and appropriate action deferred.

Perhaps you might elucidate on why my opinion, as you phrased it, is any less valid than that of 'any other poster'?

There is no 'requirement' to account for a 'judgment call' by a Moderator, but for the record, based on the quantity and content of posts by this individual, which appear repetitious and arrogant, and contain 'theoretical questions' phrased in a manner demonstrating an absence of knowledge of their subjects, that was the call.

Whether it was phrased in an 'excessive' manner or might have been more appropriately appended to another of his numerous 'hypothetical' threads may be open to question. The quest for knowledge is always admirable, however even our cadets have learned to garner available facts prior to posting queries. The good future Chaplain has continuously violated this precept despite repeated admonitions, and persists in positing 'what-ifs' while ignoring the readily available 'real world' facts, and when such are brought to his attention, answering with 'yes buts' and 'but ifs'.

Should his intent of commissioning as a military Chaplain be achieved, this maundering approach will ill serve him and the personnel he ministers to.

then I want to know what dictionary you're reading, since neither post has anything to do with religion and this is a thread about religion. I do not regard calling someone a "post whore" respectful and I find the allusion to masturbation to be inappropriate, especially in public. If you think that's respectful, then again, I want to see your dictionary. The use of public slander is not a right earned when one becomes a Moderator of a forum. What I find repulsive is the fact that the adults here (the Moderators in particular) are teaching the cadets how to act, and all this thread shows them is that if the word "Moderator" is under your name, it is perfectly fine to make irrelevant and disrespectful comments to anyone at will.

Please look below at the first two rules in the "Rules of Engagement for Cadet Forums at Grunt's Military" that the cadets are held to, which apparently Moderators are exempt from and yet entitled to enforce. By the way, these were written by BillyD, a Moderator.

1. Keep your language clean as befits young ladies and gentlemen. I'm pretty sure the words "whore" and "masturbation" (used in the first post by Hairy) are not clean language.

2. If you disagree with a poster, do not under any circumstances attack the poster. Refute their ideas, and back up your arguments with facts and reliable sources. (FYI; Wikipedia is generally not considered a reliable source. This because anyone can edit it and there is no review prior to edits posting.) Please review both quoted posts by Hairy, as both are clear violations of this rule. The first post makes a clear attempt to "attack the poster", and the second post bases its claims on accusations instead of "facts and reliable sources".


If Hairy were a regular poster or a cadet, he would have been severely warned for his comments and his posts would be edited and maybe even deleted (especially the first post). What is clearly visible here is a very apparent double standard in which disrespectful behavior is condoned only because the inappropriate posts in question originate from a Forum Moderator. Kiwi, your fondness of him is admirable but I think in this case it may have clouded your judgement. I would ask that you reread the thread in its entirety and rethink your opinion of the actions in question.

I wish to be as charitable and understanding as possible in all my posts here on Grunt's Military Forum, and I will reiterate my great respect for those who either are serving or have served in our military. However, I reserve the right (as everyone here does) to defend myself and will do so when I am on the receiving end of rude comments made in public on the this forum.

Lastly, I'd ask that we not make judgements about the manner in which each of us are obeying our respective religious tenets. That's between each one of us and God.

Can we get this thing back on topic please (as FeelinFroggy has attempted to do)? And if anybody else has things to say, please send a PM. My account is working now.

[Armed Drill Addict]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss your own religious beliefs not attack other's beliefs.

Back on topic, as for me I have been a born-again christian since in was about fourteen. The Lord has led me through many difficult times in my life. my parents splitting up(thankfully getting back together), losing my home in Hurricane Katrina, and watching my great uncle, who also happened to be a Marine, pass away. He has always been there for me, and I have always trusted his with me life.

[SlightlyCatholic]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss your own religious beliefs not attack other's beliefs.

Back on topic, as for me I have been a born-again christian since in was about fourteen. The Lord has led me through many difficult times in my life. my parents splitting up(thankfully getting back together), losing my home in Hurricane Katrina, and watching my great uncle, who also happened to be a Marine, pass away. He has always been there for me, and I have always trusted his with me life.

That must have been hard, and I'm sure all that was hard to share with people you don't know all that well. Thank you for your account of your faith and for reviving the thread!

In many cases, it is tragedy that brings us closer to God. After all, most people don't realize how useful the liferaft is until they need it. I would invite all of you to make sure that you not only ask God for help in the bad times, but also thank him for the good times. Very often we forget to simply say "thank you".

[Kiwi]

Since we have to go public about this again...

If this isn't derailing in nature (see both posts below),

Going public again? who do you think you are, this is a PUBLIC forum. You have little to do respect for other people. Religious ? I think not, more of a idiot that can't see another persons view.

You never make it as a man of God, if do have empathy and good listening and understanding skills.

Religion as not about reading the bible and spewing out quotes, its about understanding God and his intentions.

And that means understanding man himself. Something you are yet to learn.

You have no concept whats so ever have you? Hairy is a mod you respect that, Hairy has a life time of experiences on this earth you respect that, Hairy is a little rough, he is a MARINE!
Hairy has never disrespected women that I have never known of.
And yes sunshine I am a woman, I have never been disrespected once by Hairy.

So don't come off telling him that what he can say or type on this forum.

And if you can't take the use of the word whore or masturbation being used, I would 100% rethink of why you are even thinking of joining the Marines.

And I will not take crap to the PM system, because my dear boy if I did you would find that you would come across far worse words than that above.

Its a public open forum, you choose to attack a fine man as Hairy then accept that I will not allow that.

I don't care what others might do, I am not them.

A question to you Mr Born Again Tim, which BTW I did peg you as in the beginning.

Do you think as a "born again" you opinion is far above everyone elses?

If the answer is no, then don't you think you owe a few kinds words to Hairy?

Being a christian is about understanding and forgiveness, Jesus died on the cross for everyones sins, even mine, even Hairy's even yours.

He gave is life for mankind, he did that so God would forgive MANKIND.

He believe everyone is valued from the poorest of the poor to the richest of the rich, regardless of their belief or faith.

Yes he died for everyone, he respected everyone, is this not one of the main stays of being a Christian, born again or first rounders?

So with that logic, doesn't Hairys opinion worth the same as everyone elses?

The answer is yes of course.

Would you go into a house of a friend and walk dirty boots all over their new carpet?

The answer is no of course not, you have respect for the host.

The forum is like a house that you have been welcomed into, as a guest, given all the respect, and Hairy and all the other mods are your host.

Therefore all I ask is you respect Hairy for what he is.

As in life and this forum, no one is forcing you to stay here.

Its your choice.

But in life and if you do follow the path of God, we learn form our experiences, each good, each bad, but a lesson that we need.

Derailing of a topic doesn't mean because someone disagrees with you its a derailment.

Derailing is when a totally different subject is posted about. IE Pink fuffy bunny's.

Now I have written an essay :lookaround:

I think my longest have ever written, why you ask?

Because this is something I do feel strongly about.

Step back Tim read my words twice if you need too, before responding.

There are many lessons for you in my post.

[space3math]

Just a minor note, without going into the main topic of contention here:

It's quite clear that Tim is a Catholic, which doesn't fall under the umbrella of "born again" Christians.

Just a small point.

[Kiwi]

Just a minor note, without going into the main topic of contention here:

It's quite clear that Tim is a Catholic, which doesn't fall under the umbrella of "born again" Christians.

Just a small point.


There is 128 different types of Christians easy to get them mixed up lol.

Thank you for correcting me :D

[SlightlyCatholic]

Kiwi,

Thank you for your emotionally charged rant. Your post (number thirty-eight on the thread) has been reported to the moderators for being disruptive, irrelevant, and failing to conform to the standards of the English language (something we also hold the cadets to). Please refrain from posting further on the thread unless you wish to comment upon your own personal opinion regarding religious faith in your life. I would be happy to settle any personal differences we may have, but I would ask that you please do so privately.

Apparently I haven't made this clear...if anyone has a problem with what I say or how I say it, PLEASE use Private Messages. There's no reason to interrupt a thread for a personal discrepancy.

A Catholic priest is someone who is committed to the truth and does so through word and action. I have the right to argue against anything I find offensive, and will do so whenever I see fit (although preferably in private, which hasn't happened thus far). I am a very respectful and nice person, but don't expect me not to have a backbone simply because I'm a seminarian for the Catholic Church. Celibacy is a requirement for ordination, castration is not.

Finally, I would kindly ask that all participants in this thread to either stick to the topic or refrain from posting. Again, let's make use of Private Messaging should personal issues arise.

Thanks and God bless...

[HairyEyeball]

Easy, son (and let's not go through that again) - once you post it on the forum, it's no longer 'your' thread, and you were warned that religion as a topic elicits strong feelings. You also don't get to decide what may or may not be 'proper English' or usage in other English-speaking countries (despite the argument that we don't speak 'proper English' here, we speak 'American English').

You made certain statements, assertions and complaints - in the 'real world' people who disagree with you will disagree with you, sometimes vehemently, and if your 'preferences' don't coincide with what 'society' - either broadly or in some small segment (and this forum is a small, relatively 'closed' society), they're effectively irrelevant. You can pout and pule, but the only one 'listening' is you: Welcome to the real world.

As a side note, given your professed professional intent, you might seek out a practicing Priest and have a long, detailed discussion of 'humility'.

And weren't you the one who said you're not receiving PMs?

[SlightlyCatholic]

Easy, son (and let's not go through that again) - once you post it on the forum, it's no longer 'your' thread, and you were warned that religion as a topic elicits strong feelings. You also don't get to decide what may or may not be 'proper English' or usage in other English-speaking countries (despite the argument that we don't speak 'proper English' here, we speak 'American English').

You do not have a paternal connection of any kind to me. I'd appreciate it if you referred to me simply by my first name. If I start the thread, it's my thread. That's normally how it works here, unless I have more rules than everyone else.

Religion elicits strong opinions, but opinions that have nothing do with religion have no place in a thread ABOUT religion. At this point, you either don't understand that or don't care. I'll put my money on door number two.

Last time I checked, I had full faculty of the English language and unless you can show me credentials that make you an expert in the field, you have no reason to tell me that I cannot identify an error any better than you can. And no, being a moderator is not one of those credentials.

You made certain statements, assertions and complaints - in the 'real world' people who disagree with you will disagree with you, sometimes vehemently, and if your 'preferences' don't coincide with what 'society' - either broadly or in some small segment (and this forum is a small, relatively 'closed' society), they're effectively irrelevant. You can pout and pule, but the only one 'listening' is you: Welcome to the real world.

You mean YOUR preferences? You seem to be the only one with a legitimate problem here, as none of the other moderators have gotten nearly as heated as you have. Could it be that this "closed society" doesn't agree with YOUR behavior? In the real world, a title doesn't mean anything unless the person holding it proves themselves worthy through their words and actions. Sorry, but you don't act like a moderator. Do you see any of the other moderators angrily chasing around a nineteen year old? I certainly don't. Surely, THAT doesn't happen in society. It's called harassment, and people get restraining orders for it. Welcome BACK to the real world.

As a side note, given your professed professional intent, you might seek out a practicing Priest and have a long, detailed discussion of 'humility'.

When I'm done talking to said priest, I'll give him over to you. Citizens don't appreciate their elected representatives (prospective or otherwise) talking to them the way you've spoken to me so far, and you should know THAT given YOUR professed professional intent.

And weren't you the one who said you're not receiving PMs?

I have been for a while now. Fire away, although I have a strange feeling I won't get anything.

P.S. Cadets, you now have special permission from Hairy to use the words "whore" and "masturbation" as many times as you want in your posts. Hairy has personally used those words in his posts and since he leads by example as a Moderator, that means you can do it too. Tune in next week to see which new vulgarities will be deemed befitting of use for young gentlemen and ladies!

[Billyd]

Not to add fuel to this fire, but Tim, you are only the Original Poster or OP not the OWNER. And if anyone "owned" the thread, it would be Grunt as he owns the domain name and pays for the server.

You have decided to pick a battle that you can not win and you are continuing down that path with blinders on.

You started a controverial thread, live with it.

As to the "Rules of Engagement" in the Cadet Forum, those only apply there. Here, in the military forum, you are in the real world and dealing with individuals who have looked the dragon in the eye and defeated said beast. You are just starting on this great journey known as life and you need to leave you thin skin at home. That includes coming into this house.

[HairyEyeball]

Waaah, mommy, the big bad Drill Instructor is picking on me! I claim all that moral superiority and hide behind being 'only nineteen' and the big bad man has the nerve to call me on it! Waaah!

If you keep acting like a spoiled child, expect to be treated like a spoiled child.

Perhaps 'other moderators' have other priorities in their 'real world', or do not feel 'piling on' is necessary - or that it would result in more whining about being 'picked on'...after all, you're only a nineteen year old who apparently believes the world revolves around him, obviously 'worthy' of the attentions of any and all.

Whether you 'appreciate being spoken to in that manner' or not, it happens in the real world - often with less justification. You can accept the fact that reality and your fantasy of it do not coexist or not, it doesn't alter the facts.

Your inflated sense of your own self-importance aside, once a topic is posted, it is open to any and all opinions, off-topic or not - that's the way a forum works. If people think a point is 'relevant' or 'worthy of further discussion', it gets discussed. If you want to control discussion, start your own forum.

If you have, indeed, been receiving PMs 'for a while now', you might explain your assertion as of Sunday, 12 OCT 08 that you weren't...or is it just mine you're 'not receiving'?

And frankly, once you enter the 'real world', you can expect someone possessed of an ignorance such as yours surpassed only by an arrogance such as yours to be spoken to a good deal more harshly than you have experienced here.

Finally, you lack any 'authority' to grant anyone 'permission' to say anything. If a word is contextually correct and not gratuitous profanity - neither of which the two examples cited is - neither I nor any other moderator will censor it.

Little boy (since you pout at the more polite form of address), you participate in this forum under the same rules as every other member. You may accept them or not, but you just don't muster the 'horsepower' to change them to suit your inflated ego. Just for the record, neither do I - but I do have enough to enforce them. If you have 'issues' with me, since you now claim to have your PM function activated, please use it: You want to keep 'your' thread 'pure', take your own suggestion.

[SlightlyCatholic]

You have decided to pick a battle that you can not win and you are continuing down that path with blinders on.

And I assume Hairy's conduct has been nothing but commendable thus far?

You started a controverial thread, live with it.

Yes, and half the thread has nothing to do about religion. Do I have to live with that, too? I thought irrelevant posts were a "no go" on this forum and were subject to deletion.

Here, in the military forum, you are in the real world and dealing with individuals who have looked the dragon in the eye and defeated said beast.

That has nothing to do with one's conduct on this forum, nor does it give anyone a free pass to be disrespectful. I don't care if someone is a Medal Of Honor recipient, they don't get to berate people at will. The Rules of Engagement only apply in the cadet forum, yet the cadets are able to see the conduct of the Moderators here on the military forum. So are we going to enforce regulations in one area and then violate those same regulations in another? So much for setting a good example.

you need to leave you thin skin at home.

Again, I'm not the Moderator chasing around a nineteen year old on the Forum. I think I've stayed relatively calm thus far. Can you please address both parties in this conflict if you're going to adress it? The fault here is certainly not all mine.

Hairy,

Since you would rather devolve to name calling and false accusations instead of actually refuting my arguments, I've decided to cease responding to your continual attacks. You may want to be portrayed as a "big bad Drill Instructor", but you've made yourself look like nothing more than a senile old man with a chip on his shoulder. I'll always have respect for you as a Marine and an older adult, I just wish you could admit some wrongdoing after our little episodes. We're all human, my friend...it's okay to admit wrongdoing ,even big bad Moderator Marines like yourself.


Moderators,

It might not be a bad idea to establish standards of behavior for Moderators, and to put those standards in writing somewhere on this Forum. It may clear up future conflicts involving Moderator conduct and behavioral expectations. I hope that the rest of my time on the forum can be productive and fulfilling. Have a good afternoon, gentlemen. Please lock the thread.

Tim

[HairyEyeball]

Again, I'm not the only Moderator chasing around a nineteen year old on the Forum. Can you please address both parties in this conflict if you're going to adress it? The fault here is certainly not all mine.

Did someone make little Timmy a moderator? Apparently I didn't get the memo.

[wukong]

This thread has just about run it's course in entertainment value. I would suggest that it is time to shut up and lock this thread.

[Kiwi]

Kiwi,

Thank you for your emotionally charged rant. Your post (number thirty-eight on the thread) has been reported to the moderators for being disruptive, irrelevant, and failing to conform to the standards of the English language (something we also hold the cadets to). Please refrain from posting further on the thread unless you wish to comment upon your own personal opinion regarding religious faith in your life.

ROFLMAO! :D well thats not very christian of you now is it ;)

Whats wrong honey the big old nasty lady picking on you.

What do you think in life you can command people around?

Wrong sweetie...

Cadet? Hell I am way past that age ....Imagine that!

English language? I am Kiwi mate, I speak New Zealander. Once again you lack knowledge in the world around you.

I am sure I have grey hair much older than you boy.

Its it not Christian to respect your elders?

Timmy looks like you fail in more areas than one.

[HairyEyeball]

This thread has just about run it's course in entertainment value. I would suggest that it is time to shut up and lock this thread.

It might well be, but for obvious reasons, I would prefer another moderator do so. The child's posturings have, indeed, lost their 'entertainment value', but I choose not to put myself in the position of being accused of 'censoring' his rants.

[PhilK]

I second the nomination to lock the thread, and Hairy since you are the only moderator around right now I have no issue with you doing it.

It was fun for a little while...now it is like a train wreck...I can't help but look.

[SlightlyCatholic]

It might well be, but for obvious reasons, I would prefer another moderator do so. The child's posturings have, indeed, lost their 'entertainment value', but I choose not to put myself in the position of being accused of 'censoring' his rants.

You do whatever you need to do, Duke. I've already told you I want the thread closed, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to accuse you of censorship.

Attention all member of Grunt's Military Forum:

HairyEyeball is infallible and cannot be criticized or disagreed with for any reason at any time, even if criticisms/disagreements are valid and argued in a logical manner. Failure to comply will result in being severely berated and called a "child".


...lock it up and throw away the key. This one's done.

[soccermark23]

Thread locked per requests.