USAF returning to Blues...

[ang1sgt]

I wonder about this. As a prior First Sergeant, when you make a decision like this, people are going to bitch about it. I just hope some Base Commander doesn't get a hair up their arse and decide that even the Flightline guys and the rest of the mechanical folks need to do this also. Talk about a Maintenance Down Day!

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123113919

Every Monday now blues day for Airmen

9/5/2008 - WASHINGTON (AFPN) -- Beginning Sept. 8, Airmen now will be required to wear a combination of the blues uniform on Mondays.

At a recent four-star conference, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton A. Schwartz discussed the issue with other senior leaders.

"We all agreed that part of our image, culture and professionalism is instilled in our blues," General Schwartz said.

The policy is mandatory for most career fields, with installation commanders retaining the authority to adjust for mission requirements.

Prior to Sept. 11, 2001, blues were the primary duty uniform for most Airmen.

Note: The link above has a PDF file of the Policy Letter. Active Duty Folks might want to print it out and put it into your Continuity Books. Just a thought...

TOP

[soccermark23]

I say that folks in desk jobs down in personnel and commander's support staff should have to wear blues the majority of the time. If they make flight-line folks do this, there will be hell to pay.

[03_SHOOTER]

Yeah, that'd go over like a fart in a diving helmet with the SP's! :rolleyes:

[HairyEyeball]

"We all agreed that part of our image, culture and professionalism is instilled in our blues," General Schwartz said.

In an older version, perhaps, not in the 'business suits with insignia' seen (and 'remaindered') around here (Davis Monthan AFB). It appears the good General may have been breathing the rarified air inside the Beltway too long. Maybe as an outsider I just don't 'get it', but it appears to me that if they want to convey a look of (military) 'professionalism', they might consider going back to a more traditional - and professional - 'military' uniform.

[Billyd]

To my fellow AF brothers, I respectfully disagree. I will concede that once a week is too often for those of us of the wrench turning persuasion. However, that said, I believe that at least once a month, everyone should turn out in blues. This would be a good day to take care of some of those training needs that arise and we all know that EPRs don't write themselves. Additional duties can be attended to and so forth. I know around these parts, they started wearing blues on the last duty day of the month until Gen Schwartz implemented Blue Mondays.

We, United States Air Force, Inc, have had the 9-5 mentality for so long that a lot of us have forgotten, that while we are the premiere air superiority force in the world, we are members of a brotherhood known as the United States Military. I work with several young officers that have no clue what it means to be in the military. What it means to serve. Why some leaders will be followed to the very gates of hell, and why others are only followed out of morbid curiosity and how to tell the difference. We, as NCOs, have failed to train our airman in the Profession of Arms, and for that, we should be ashamed. This is not something that failed overnight, nor can it be corrected overnight.

I don’t profess to have THE answer, but I do try and talk with the young officers and help them understand what it is the young airman and NCOs do and what they contribute to the mission. These young officers are the decision makers of tomorrow and I want them to know that the decisions they make will effect real people.

[ang1sgt]

To Hairy...

When the USAF says Blues or combination there of, they are not saying the Dress Blues. The USAF has a working Blue Uniform that are the Dark Blue trousers with a light AF Blue shirt. This is what the General Staff is talking about.

During the course of my late career as a First Sergeant, I would bring to Drill, or have in my Office my Dress Blues, Working Blues, and at least 2 sets of cleaned, pressed and perfect BDU's. The Shine Bucket was put out every morning, and I tried to maintain that military perfection as I could. I would say that on "MY" normal day, it was 75-85% Blue Work uniform. If I were going up to Headquarters, it would be Work Blues or Dress Blues. If it were to stand in front of a Board, or be a Member of a Board, only Dress Blues would do. Of course this was "MY" personal standard as a SNCO and First Sergeant.

If I were going to walk the Flightline early in the morning like I would do often, of course BDU's and Steel Toes were the order of the day. I felt that I needed to walk the line, and also to do the FOD Walk a few times a month also. Soon after I started this, the Commander and the Maintenance Division Commander started to do the same thing. Part of the reason was to get our faces out there and to offer up our availability to Troops that would not come and see us. To see a Shirt, His Commander O-4, and the Big Boss O-6 walking the line picking up FOD is a pretty neat sight.

Again, as BillyD stated, it is the purview of the SNCO's to see that our Airmen are trained and understand the Mission and their place in that Mission. We need to take extra-ordinary steps sometimes to do that.

[HairyEyeball]

Well said, gentlemen. Both of you exemplify a 'professional military' attitude that has been lacking in the perception - externally as well as internally - of your branch. As, again, an 'outsider' I've seen enough to the '9-to-5 mentality' that appears to have become institutionalized in areas of the AF and the apparent effort to distinguish the branch visually, rather than professionally: Unique uniforms and boots - even without the 'Star Wars meets the Marine Corps fantasy uniforms' may 'make a statement', but say nothing to the 'practical military' perception - that can only be done by the individual leadership at every level.

It would seem that the good General understands the concept, although there may be some question about his first step in the execution.

[soccermark23]

Just wanted to add some first hand information to this. As stated in the article, Unit Commanders make the decision on who will wear Blues on Mondays, and our Wing Commander decided that Maintenance Personnel would be exempt, which honestly makes the most sense to me.

[teejay91b]

When I saw the first post in this thread, I thought that the Air Force was about to take a step away from the "War Fighter" movement that seemed to have gained popularity among the senior brass in recent years. Now, having read more, I'd have to say that it does make sense. Of course, as HE said, this is from an outsiders perspective.

[SAC_Cop]

Speaking as an AF Cop formerly of the Law Enforcement variety. I like the idea of the blues being the daily wear uniform. Obviously maintenance folks and other manual labor and technical AFSCs where the blue uniform would be easily soiled should where cammys and the like, but admin people and others who ride a chair or like Police Patrols etc., blues are perfect.

It may take some getting used to because seven years is a long time to do something one way then change and some first termers in particular may resist it, but in the long run it will be for the best. IMHO.

[Startingover]

Well I honestly think in my opinion, and this is considering both BillyD and Harry, that the blues are one of the best choices to go with. This is for 2 reasons.

1) The blues look more professional and more complete with the Business attire that the Air Force is trying to go with now. We arnt the army anymore, we are the Air Force, we dont get in ditches like the marines, we dont scuffle around the battlefield like the Army. Like the Navy, we typically stay behind the lines and are more presentable as spokespersons and more buisnessmen than combat troops.

2) The heck of switching from the BDU to the ABU is driving the AF crazy right now. As Quoted from Col. Pierce who recently visted the detachment.

" I have two pairs of pants, and three tops for the ABU's and between the 5 of them I still cant get a decent looking uniform. They are mismatched and color differentiated."

Manufacturing of the ABUs may be full scale but it i not standardized yet we are in a full scale switch. I think that going to the Blues is more of a logistical decision to try and ease over instead of slap everyone in the face because it is an estimated 1.1 million dollars to reoutfit every airman in the Air Force with ABU's.

So betweena mpore presentable look and more ease in transition, it shoud be the better chocie for the time being but at the same time it might not always be that way. As we all know, the military LOVES to change things and make them "easier" for you. But no the blues arn't the best uniform to do everything in and there are always exceptions to every rule no matter what in the world they might be. Cause I highly doubt you will see an aircraft mech. in Blues.

[HairyEyeball]

Son, you might want to sit down, take a deep breath, and try to follow a consistant line of thought - that post was all over the map. And your college-boy, 'business suit' image of a 'sevice' less military than the Coast Guard is precisely what makes the AF the butt of so many jokes.

There are AF vets here would be more than happy to administer a 'headspace and timing adjustment - who have strapped on their 'war gear' alongside the Army, just like my Marines.

Unfortunately, the contempt your ignorant blithering engenders falls on Veterans of the 'real' AF, and they deserve far better than you as a subordinate - you're presently not fit to be considered a 'leader'. And while we're at it, college boy, you might crank your reading skills up to at least second grade levels - at least long enough to get the name right.

[Sgt Lewis]

At Startingover;
Just so you know BOY, back in the 60's and 70's we were not in the back of the field, letting the Army and Marines do all the dirty work. I know that some of us here spent months and years in Jungle Fatiuges, with an M-16 straped to our backs... and not because we were trying to look good. You need a History lession, and I have a feeling that if you hang around here, you just might get one.

Thank you Hairy, for that was truly an inspired tounge lashing... and one deserved for sure.

[Billyd]

And I'm sure that all the Airmen currently deployed to various front line posts in Iraq and running convoy security really appreciate being called REMF. Cadet you may want to be a leader in MY Air Force, and you may actually succeed. However, you have a long way to go before you even get there. You need to understand the mission of the AF is to FLY, FIGHT, and WIN. Not SIT, TYPE, and GRIPE.

[Startingover]

:afgarrison:Well Im sorry if I came over at all ignorant at all. Personally, obviously, I have no idea what we had to go through in anything before 2000. I still have a lot to learn, I know that, but I was just making my opinion known. I know that there are many people, and you are included HairyEyeBalls, BillyD, in those people of who have given their time over and over for us to be here today.

I meant no disrespect to the honor of those people and I understand that.

No, by no means am I ready to enter the Air Force yet, thats why im just a cadet. But when I do, it wont have anything to do with what I say here, but maybe I can exhibit over the next four years what I do learn, and you can help me become, Through HairyEyeball's informative lectres, and BillyD's natural act to correct information, a leader in the Air Force.

Cant forget TOP either. :afgarrison:

[HairyEyeball]

If you truly do desire to learn, there are valuable resources here - and elsewhere. You wrote:

I have no idea what we had to go through in anything before 2000.

The AF was around as a separate and distinct service for over a half-century prior - don't you think there is an abundance of information available on that period? Do household names like LeMay and Spaatz, or acronyms such as SAC inspire a desire to find out why?

'Forming opinions' is a desirable trait in a leader, but only when they are based on as complete a knowledge as possible, and there is a logical progression integrating those facts into a coherent philosophy. One of the basic tenets here - as in the 'operating' portions of any branch - is "Insure brain is engaged before setting mouth in motion": There are people out there - at all ranks and pay grades - who've not only learned their history, they've made it. If you intend to be a leader among these people, you need to know what they know, understand how and why things are now how they are.

It may well be a matter of faith on this board that me 'defending' the AF should be accompanied by a brass band playing "The World Turned Upside Down", but - politics and rivalries aside - they are a military organization with a military mission. If you have learned something from the preceeding exchange, we've all won: The forum has served a valid purpose, and you may become a better officer. We all have some knowledge to impart, and I'm certain people like ANG1SGT, BillyD, Ivan, 03Shooter, and a few others with first-hand experience will help you become an asset to their service.

[Startingover]

Well honestly, with everything happening right now it is possible for anything to happen, lol.

Maybe in 4 years when I graduate, after Field training, and all my leadership courses I might have a better understanding of what to do. But for right now, I still acknowledge, (not all the time) that I am ignorant in my own small life right now but hopefully over some years I can become someone who has some value to the AF.

And just to clairfy, when I wrote:

I have no idea what we had to go through in anything before 2000.

I was referring to my own personal experience, not my lack of ability to research History. I couldn't comprehend anything going on around me until about then cause I was still a little kid and I honestly did not know yet.

[soccermark23]

1) The blues look more professional and more complete with the Business attire that the Air Force is trying to go with now. We arnt the army anymore, we are the Air Force, we dont get in ditches like the marines, we dont scuffle around the battlefield like the Army. Like the Navy, we typically stay behind the lines and are more presentable as spokespersons and more buisnessmen than combat troops.


Son, I would highly recommend that you take back the specific comment about the Air Force being 'business men.' I for one find that highly offensive to those who have served in country, both inside and outside the wire. When I was deployed I met Airmen who spent every day guarding the base and others who went out on patrols hand in hand with our Army brethren. If anything the Air Force is now taking a turn towards being a more combat functional service. Will we ever be up there on the level of the Army and Marine Corps? No, that's just a fact of the different functions we serve. But don't be calling me a spokesperson or business man when I'm trying to fix an F-16 in the middle of Iraq and dodging mortars at the same time.

[Startingover]

Well I would like to say something and someone please listen to this and not just flame me here. I know I was wrong in what I said, Im sorry that people were offended but I will leave my comment for discussion, and mainly telling me how wrong I was. I understand that my comment probably offended, but now I understand I was wrong.

[ang1sgt]

Cadet,

You do have a lot to learn! I've worked at the local level with the ROTC Unit at RIT. I used to do additional Duty with the Cadets there and I had much interaction with them especially in their last years. As a SNCO I gave them a different look into what their USAF career could be like.

As to uniforms, I would hate to be working on the flightline with low quarters, Light Blue Shirt and such. Between the FOD hazzard, and ruining low quarters, hydraulic fluid stains...ect... I thik you see my point.

[Startingover]

Cadet,

You do have a lot to learn! I've worked at the local level with the ROTC Unit at RIT. I used to do additional Duty with the Cadets there and I had much interaction with them especially in their last years. As a SNCO I gave them a different look into what their USAF career could be like.

As to uniforms, I would hate to be working on the flightline with low quarters, Light Blue Shirt and such. Between the FOD hazzard, and ruining low quarters, hydraulic fluid stains...ect... I thik you see my point.

I can understand the flightline, and there are many jobs that do require a more duty worthy uniform, and I did say that, but I'm pretty sure that my wording of my entire statement could have been much better that is for sure. The blues are not suited for everything, but they are a bit more presentable than mismatched ABUs.

[HairyEyeball]

Think you're missing the point, son. Nobody is suggesting you delete your original comment - you made an ill-informed statement, were called on it and corrected, given information and input. Nobody is suggesting that you're a 'bad person' because of it, and ignorance is not a fault - it's something we all endure until we supplant it with knowledge. If you have learned from the experience, everyone's 'interests' were well served - including those who may in the future read this thread and avoid the same situation: A smart man learns from his mistakes, a wise man from the mistakes of others.

In some ways, starting the forum over is a shame, as we institutionally lose the accumulated knowledge of the former iteration - although while the 'old' version is still available (would that someone could preserve it, and had preserved former ones) it might serve some of our newer members to search it for answers before asking us to 'reinvent the wheel'.

As an aside, yes, a neat and pressed 'appearance' is preferable to 'mismatched ABUs', when one has the leisure and opportunity. As you will learn, should you continue as a cadet and eventually a commissioned officer, that 'opportunity', especially when the operational tempo is at today's level (or perhaps when actually involved in a combat zone), such opportunity is not all that common. To put it another way, as a member of the Armed Forces, your primary responsibility is to prepare and be ready for war, not inspection.

[soccermark23]

We all learn and grow through our experiences. You can ask HE or Top about how I was when I first joined this forum and the military. It's a growing process that happens throughout both your civilian life and your military career. I have seen myself grow from a fresh young Airman who thought he knew everything there was into an NCO who knows what he knows, but also know when to heed the advice of his superiors while also relating his own experience. This has helped me to be a better NCO and to help the new Airman that have joined my unit.

[DravenX]

I don't mind my blues but I will be in an office environment so I will be wearing blues every Monday. It might get old after awhile but it's just something you have to do.

[teejay91b]

Starting Over, this is a big boy forum, composed mostly of active duty, retired, or prior service members. Sometimes a statement invites comment or criticism and it is assumed that the poster, having chosen to join the company of these individuals, will have the maturity to accept these comments for what they are. An attempt to enlighten the individual on matters he may not have a working knowledge of. As to not knowing the history of the USAF, Son you chose to join the organization. It might be a good idea to bone up on its history. My father was part of an Army ROTC cadre before retiring. One of the classes taught was Military History. If you don't find this sufficient, go to the library. The Air Force has a proud history that you should be proud to be a part of.

Oh, and Hairy, I imagine that your coming to the defense of the Air Force would give a certain trash hauler (:airforce:) warm, fuzzy feelings inside. Of course that could just be the Shirley Temples.

[Billyd]

Oh, and Hairy, I imagine that your coming to the defense of the Air Force would give a certain trash hauler (:airforce:) warm, fuzzy feelings inside. Of course that could just be the Shirley Temples.

Speaking of our favorite trash hauler, has anyone heard from him lately? Let's hope that he didn't receive travel orders that superseded Grunt's.